Coronavirus - the killer flu that will wipe us out? (Vol. 8)
Discussion
MOTORVATOR said:
Leaning on or applying pressure to do the right thing is not a case of hitting of someone with a stick, a simple rational explanation of the need to increase take up as not doing so is detrimental to the well being of the country as a whole isn't too much to ask is it?
You don’t think this has been tried already?There’s been countless “bame”-oriented videos put out, with celebs, MPs etc. The disparity still exists.
There comes a point where we simply have to accept individual choice and we have to accept the proportions will vary between different groups for a slew of complex reasons. Short of physically forcing people to have it, of course, which I would hope barely anyone here would advocate.
markyb_lcy said:
MOTORVATOR said:
Leaning on or applying pressure to do the right thing is not a case of hitting of someone with a stick, a simple rational explanation of the need to increase take up as not doing so is detrimental to the well being of the country as a whole isn't too much to ask is it?
You don’t think this has been tried already?There’s been countless “bame”-oriented videos put out, with celebs, MPs etc. The disparity still exists.
There comes a point where we simply have to accept individual choice and we have to accept the proportions will vary between different groups for a slew of complex reasons. Short of physically forcing people to have it, of course, which I would hope barely anyone here would advocate.
And remember we still don't know what level of Vax we will need to avoid next winter being a problem, what happens when you run out of 18yr olds as they've already been used to plug another gap?
MOTORVATOR said:
markyb_lcy said:
MOTORVATOR said:
Leaning on or applying pressure to do the right thing is not a case of hitting of someone with a stick, a simple rational explanation of the need to increase take up as not doing so is detrimental to the well being of the country as a whole isn't too much to ask is it?
You don’t think this has been tried already?There’s been countless “bame”-oriented videos put out, with celebs, MPs etc. The disparity still exists.
There comes a point where we simply have to accept individual choice and we have to accept the proportions will vary between different groups for a slew of complex reasons. Short of physically forcing people to have it, of course, which I would hope barely anyone here would advocate.
And remember we still don't know what level of Vax we will need to avoid next winter being a problem, what happens when you run out of 18yr olds as they've already been used to plug another gap?
For those people who are more vulnerable to this virus, perhaps one could say they have a responsibility to themselves to give it serious consideration but ultimately they must make their own decision, and we must respect it, as indeed should be the case for anyone.
People are being leant-on, enough. If they still don’t want the vaccine, then they, and we, must live with the consequences. You cannot change what you cannot change. The fact is that all the propaganda in the world won’t convince some, and indeed an over-use of it, will put some people off.
markyb_lcy said:
MOTORVATOR said:
markyb_lcy said:
MOTORVATOR said:
Leaning on or applying pressure to do the right thing is not a case of hitting of someone with a stick, a simple rational explanation of the need to increase take up as not doing so is detrimental to the well being of the country as a whole isn't too much to ask is it?
You don’t think this has been tried already?There’s been countless “bame”-oriented videos put out, with celebs, MPs etc. The disparity still exists.
There comes a point where we simply have to accept individual choice and we have to accept the proportions will vary between different groups for a slew of complex reasons. Short of physically forcing people to have it, of course, which I would hope barely anyone here would advocate.
And remember we still don't know what level of Vax we will need to avoid next winter being a problem, what happens when you run out of 18yr olds as they've already been used to plug another gap?
For those people who are more vulnerable to this virus, perhaps one could say they have a responsibility to themselves to give it serious consideration but ultimately they must make their own decision, and we must respect it, as indeed should be the case for anyone.
People are being leant-on, enough. If they still don’t want the vaccine, then they, and we, must live with the consequences. You cannot change what you cannot change. The fact is that all the propaganda in the world won’t convince some, and indeed an over-use of it, will put some people off.
If we’ve managed to go to the effort of mapping genomes to establish which variant these 200 odd cases in Bolton or wherever have contracted, surely it’s not beyond us to very quickly asses whether any of these people have had one or two doses of the vaccine?
1. Everyone has had two doses of the vaccine and still been infected and become ill, oh dear.
2. None of them have had a vaccine because their sky fairy says it’s not his will, I’m terribly sorry but there’s not much more we can do.
My suspicion is it’s scenario two, however the media of course would like us to read it as scenario one by missing out information.
1. Everyone has had two doses of the vaccine and still been infected and become ill, oh dear.
2. None of them have had a vaccine because their sky fairy says it’s not his will, I’m terribly sorry but there’s not much more we can do.
My suspicion is it’s scenario two, however the media of course would like us to read it as scenario one by missing out information.
panholio said:
If we’ve managed to go to the effort of mapping genomes to establish which variant these 200 odd cases in Bolton or wherever have contracted, surely it’s not beyond us to very quickly asses whether any of these people have had one or two doses of the vaccine?
1. Everyone has had two doses of the vaccine and still been infected and become ill, oh dear.
2. None of them have had a vaccine because their sky fairy says it’s not his will, I’m terribly sorry but there’s not much more we can do.
My suspicion is it’s scenario two, however the media of course would like us to read it as scenario one by missing out information.
if you look at the table posted above, as I said above, for all that the Bolton cases are being blamed on all those bad people misbehaving from the Indian subcontinent, their vaccination take-up rates are 76-88% and still extremely high so not exactly an issue of their sky fairy. 1. Everyone has had two doses of the vaccine and still been infected and become ill, oh dear.
2. None of them have had a vaccine because their sky fairy says it’s not his will, I’m terribly sorry but there’s not much more we can do.
My suspicion is it’s scenario two, however the media of course would like us to read it as scenario one by missing out information.
It's a little odd the posts above have went into discussing how to better 'lean on' ie coerce people to getting the jabs because of their supposed responsibility to do the right thing when they have been clearly doing so already.
isaldiri said:
panholio said:
If we’ve managed to go to the effort of mapping genomes to establish which variant these 200 odd cases in Bolton or wherever have contracted, surely it’s not beyond us to very quickly asses whether any of these people have had one or two doses of the vaccine?
1. Everyone has had two doses of the vaccine and still been infected and become ill, oh dear.
2. None of them have had a vaccine because their sky fairy says it’s not his will, I’m terribly sorry but there’s not much more we can do.
My suspicion is it’s scenario two, however the media of course would like us to read it as scenario one by missing out information.
if you look at the table posted above, as I said above, for all that the Bolton cases are being blamed on all those bad people misbehaving from the Indian subcontinent, their vaccination take-up rates are 76-88% and still extremely high so not exactly an issue of their sky fairy. 1. Everyone has had two doses of the vaccine and still been infected and become ill, oh dear.
2. None of them have had a vaccine because their sky fairy says it’s not his will, I’m terribly sorry but there’s not much more we can do.
My suspicion is it’s scenario two, however the media of course would like us to read it as scenario one by missing out information.
It's a little odd the posts above have went into discussing how to better 'lean on' ie coerce people to getting the jabs because of their supposed responsibility to do the right thing when they have been clearly doing so already.
panholio said:
isaldiri said:
panholio said:
If we’ve managed to go to the effort of mapping genomes to establish which variant these 200 odd cases in Bolton or wherever have contracted, surely it’s not beyond us to very quickly asses whether any of these people have had one or two doses of the vaccine?
1. Everyone has had two doses of the vaccine and still been infected and become ill, oh dear.
2. None of them have had a vaccine because their sky fairy says it’s not his will, I’m terribly sorry but there’s not much more we can do.
My suspicion is it’s scenario two, however the media of course would like us to read it as scenario one by missing out information.
if you look at the table posted above, as I said above, for all that the Bolton cases are being blamed on all those bad people misbehaving from the Indian subcontinent, their vaccination take-up rates are 76-88% and still extremely high so not exactly an issue of their sky fairy. 1. Everyone has had two doses of the vaccine and still been infected and become ill, oh dear.
2. None of them have had a vaccine because their sky fairy says it’s not his will, I’m terribly sorry but there’s not much more we can do.
My suspicion is it’s scenario two, however the media of course would like us to read it as scenario one by missing out information.
It's a little odd the posts above have went into discussing how to better 'lean on' ie coerce people to getting the jabs because of their supposed responsibility to do the right thing when they have been clearly doing so already.
"We saw higher prevalence in people of Asian ethnicity compared with white people,especially if we restricted the analyses to Ct <34,that is, where viral load was higher. This suggests that infections may be continuing to spread more rapidly among the Asian community than in other groups in the population."
https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/bitstream/10044/1/88...
It can't be made much clearer that, with prevalence being the only thing possible holding us back now, more work needs to be done with Asian communities in order that they are not identified as the cause of any further delays.
MOTORVATOR said:
panholio said:
isaldiri said:
panholio said:
If we’ve managed to go to the effort of mapping genomes to establish which variant these 200 odd cases in Bolton or wherever have contracted, surely it’s not beyond us to very quickly asses whether any of these people have had one or two doses of the vaccine?
1. Everyone has had two doses of the vaccine and still been infected and become ill, oh dear.
2. None of them have had a vaccine because their sky fairy says it’s not his will, I’m terribly sorry but there’s not much more we can do.
My suspicion is it’s scenario two, however the media of course would like us to read it as scenario one by missing out information.
if you look at the table posted above, as I said above, for all that the Bolton cases are being blamed on all those bad people misbehaving from the Indian subcontinent, their vaccination take-up rates are 76-88% and still extremely high so not exactly an issue of their sky fairy. 1. Everyone has had two doses of the vaccine and still been infected and become ill, oh dear.
2. None of them have had a vaccine because their sky fairy says it’s not his will, I’m terribly sorry but there’s not much more we can do.
My suspicion is it’s scenario two, however the media of course would like us to read it as scenario one by missing out information.
It's a little odd the posts above have went into discussing how to better 'lean on' ie coerce people to getting the jabs because of their supposed responsibility to do the right thing when they have been clearly doing so already.
"We saw higher prevalence in people of Asian ethnicity compared with white people,especially if we restricted the analyses to Ct <34,that is, where viral load was higher. This suggests that infections may be continuing to spread more rapidly among the Asian community than in other groups in the population."
https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/bitstream/10044/1/88...
It can't be made much clearer that, with prevalence being the only thing possible holding us back now, more work needs to be done with Asian communities in order that they are not identified as the cause of any further delays.
MOTORVATOR said:
Leaning on or applying pressure to do the right thing is not a case of hitting of someone with a stick, a simple rational explanation of the need to increase take up as not doing so is detrimental to the well being of the country as a whole isn't too much to ask is it?
No its not. But if my experience of certain demographics within the UK, a rational explanation just doesn't cut it. Its cultural, a deeply ingrained distrust of modern medicine and the outlook that sky fairies will save them come the time should they get ill.Unfortunately they will only do something when they see family and friends suffering with it. If no one is suffering, then it's very difficult to persuade them. If things worsen, then sometimes let Darwin make its mark.
Tbh I think the take up figures amongst different ethnic groups is better than I thought it would be. And yes they may be significantly lower take up amongst them, but barely makes a mark on the general totals.
It's not worth spending 100s of millions on advertising and doom porn for the next year
........ Oh wait!
markyb_lcy said:
MOTORVATOR said:
I wouldn’t advocate conscription but maybe hand out a white feather for those then? ??
A somewhat strange point, because we are not in a war. If we were in a war, you wouldn't reasonably initiate conscription when the enemy is retreating.
MOTORVATOR said:
markyb_lcy said:
MOTORVATOR said:
I wouldn’t advocate conscription but maybe hand out a white feather for those then? ??
A somewhat strange point, because we are not in a war. If we were in a war, you wouldn't reasonably initiate conscription when the enemy is retreating.Can anybody help me understand the new concerns over this Indian variant?
I know the Indian covid variant is rampaging through India at the moment in a similar fashion to the way the Kent variant did through the UK which triggered the last lock-down.
I also know that there was a global push to help distribute the existing covid vaccines into India to help them tackle their crisis, the same vaccines we have used so successfully in the UK.
So... if our current vaccines are needed to tackle covid in India because their effective against their variant, why should there be any increased risk from the Indian variant to the UK vaccinated population?
I know the Indian covid variant is rampaging through India at the moment in a similar fashion to the way the Kent variant did through the UK which triggered the last lock-down.
I also know that there was a global push to help distribute the existing covid vaccines into India to help them tackle their crisis, the same vaccines we have used so successfully in the UK.
So... if our current vaccines are needed to tackle covid in India because their effective against their variant, why should there be any increased risk from the Indian variant to the UK vaccinated population?
ks.markyb_lcy said:
MOTORVATOR said:
markyb_lcy said:
MOTORVATOR said:
I wouldn’t advocate conscription but maybe hand out a white feather for those then? ??
A somewhat strange point, because we are not in a war. If we were in a war, you wouldn't reasonably initiate conscription when the enemy is retreating.I'm busy trying to do a risk appraisal for Guernsey laying out that as proposed we will be shifting a fleet and teams from a largely cat 1 country (UK) on 17th July. Just wondering whether the statement we should all be fine as there are no unvaccinated Asians in the party will wash or not.
markyb_lcy said:
MOTORVATOR said:
markyb_lcy said:
MOTORVATOR said:
I wouldn’t advocate conscription but maybe hand out a white feather for those then? ??
A somewhat strange point, because we are not in a war. If we were in a war, you wouldn't reasonably initiate conscription when the enemy is retreating.MOTORVATOR said:
Just so people are aware of what we are talking about here is one of the quotes from the React report published yesterday,
"We saw higher prevalence in people of Asian ethnicity compared with white people, especially if we restricted the analyses to Ct <34, that is, where viral load was higher. This suggests that infections may be continuing to spread more rapidly among the Asian community than in other groups in the population."
https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/bitstream/10044/1/88...
It can't be made much clearer that, with prevalence being the only thing possible holding us back now, more work needs to be done with Asian communities in order that they are not identified as the cause of any further delays.
That implies that they still run PCR testing with a cycle threshold of greater than 34."We saw higher prevalence in people of Asian ethnicity compared with white people, especially if we restricted the analyses to Ct <34, that is, where viral load was higher. This suggests that infections may be continuing to spread more rapidly among the Asian community than in other groups in the population."
https://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/bitstream/10044/1/88...
It can't be made much clearer that, with prevalence being the only thing possible holding us back now, more work needs to be done with Asian communities in order that they are not identified as the cause of any further delays.
Even Fauci accepts (since at least October 2020) that "if you get a cycle threshold of 35 or more the chances of it being replication competent are miniscule".
gareth_r said:
markyb_lcy said:
I concede that I had no idea of the relevance of that. Forgive my ignorance and indulge me with an explanation?
The white feather was the World War 1 equivalent of SPI-B's plan to use "social disapproval from one’s community".A good analogy, although here in 2021 we will give the badges (and the digital pass) to the compliant and the non-compliant will be identified by a lack of these ... it doesn't really matter which side you mark and which side you don't, the process of shaming (and worse, potential marginalisation) is the same.
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