Welsh lockdown
Discussion
saaby93 said:
phil_cardiff said:
https://twitter.com/fmwales/status/135121151874717...
Drakeford replies. Why he didn't take this line on R4 I don't know. Modern politics requires media polish, whether you like it or not.
Welsh media getting stick here and rightly so. The papers are mainly foreign owned and BBC Wales doesn't seem to give a s
t.
Is he talking about the Oxford vaccine as it comes in rather than the Pfizer one kept safe in two locations?Drakeford replies. Why he didn't take this line on R4 I don't know. Modern politics requires media polish, whether you like it or not.
Welsh media getting stick here and rightly so. The papers are mainly foreign owned and BBC Wales doesn't seem to give a s
t. I wish they'd publish vaccines administered as a % of vaccines received. And broken down regionally across the UK.
Has it crossed any of your minds that he might actually have a point?
Who delivers the vaccine? Healthcare professionals. So if you divert a load of them from doing their current day jobs (which is a pretty desperate attempt to hold the NHS together) what do you think the impact would be on the NHS? Clearly you need to strike a balance between shifting people to deliver the vaccine and leaving enough in the rest of the service to keep it limping along. And shifting people from one role to another is disruptive, so you minimise that too. On that basis, the most efficient use of NHS manpower is to do precisely what Drakeford was describing.
If this policy is so obviously dumb, where are the epidemiologists and doctors raising their concerns and saying their advice was ignored?
Who delivers the vaccine? Healthcare professionals. So if you divert a load of them from doing their current day jobs (which is a pretty desperate attempt to hold the NHS together) what do you think the impact would be on the NHS? Clearly you need to strike a balance between shifting people to deliver the vaccine and leaving enough in the rest of the service to keep it limping along. And shifting people from one role to another is disruptive, so you minimise that too. On that basis, the most efficient use of NHS manpower is to do precisely what Drakeford was describing.
If this policy is so obviously dumb, where are the epidemiologists and doctors raising their concerns and saying their advice was ignored?
ATG said:
Has it crossed any of your minds that he might actually have a point?
Who delivers the vaccine? Healthcare professionals. So if you divert a load of them from doing their current day jobs (which is a pretty desperate attempt to hold the NHS together) what do you think the impact would be on the NHS? Clearly you need to strike a balance between shifting people to deliver the vaccine and leaving enough in the rest of the service to keep it limping along. And shifting people from one role to another is disruptive, so you minimise that too. On that basis, the most efficient use of NHS manpower is to do precisely what Drakeford was describing.
If this policy is so obviously dumb, where are the epidemiologists and doctors raising their concerns and saying their advice was ignored?
It appears to be daft.Who delivers the vaccine? Healthcare professionals. So if you divert a load of them from doing their current day jobs (which is a pretty desperate attempt to hold the NHS together) what do you think the impact would be on the NHS? Clearly you need to strike a balance between shifting people to deliver the vaccine and leaving enough in the rest of the service to keep it limping along. And shifting people from one role to another is disruptive, so you minimise that too. On that basis, the most efficient use of NHS manpower is to do precisely what Drakeford was describing.
If this policy is so obviously dumb, where are the epidemiologists and doctors raising their concerns and saying their advice was ignored?
Imagine sending the fire brigade to put out a fire and asking them not to use the water too quickly because the team would be back at the station with nothing to do!
Been reading this story with an increasing sense of frustration.
Why are NHS staff vaccinating - Pharmacies are begging to do this, and not being used.
Why do we have so much vaccine sat in stores, and not working away merrily in arms?
If the NHS are busy, we should be using anyone else who can stick a needle in an arm - there must be literally 1/4 of the population who are capable of doing this.
This type of public service bullst mindset really boils my piss.
Meanwhile, more restrictions come into force. Wouldn't it be much better if Mark and co concentrated on delivering the cure, not the restrictions?
Why are NHS staff vaccinating - Pharmacies are begging to do this, and not being used.
Why do we have so much vaccine sat in stores, and not working away merrily in arms?
If the NHS are busy, we should be using anyone else who can stick a needle in an arm - there must be literally 1/4 of the population who are capable of doing this.
This type of public service bulls
t mindset really boils my piss.Meanwhile, more restrictions come into force. Wouldn't it be much better if Mark and co concentrated on delivering the cure, not the restrictions?
ATG said:
Has it crossed any of your minds that he might actually have a point?
Who delivers the vaccine? Healthcare professionals. So if you divert a load of them from doing their current day jobs (which is a pretty desperate attempt to hold the NHS together) what do you think the impact would be on the NHS? Clearly you need to strike a balance between shifting people to deliver the vaccine and leaving enough in the rest of the service to keep it limping along. And shifting people from one role to another is disruptive, so you minimise that too. On that basis, the most efficient use of NHS manpower is to do precisely what Drakeford was describing.
If this policy is so obviously dumb, where are the epidemiologists and doctors raising their concerns and saying their advice was ignored?
Except the people doing the vaccinating are dentists, retired nurses and other medical practitioners, who have been drafted in to avoid disturbing the status quo with front line hospital staff currently dealing with Covid.Who delivers the vaccine? Healthcare professionals. So if you divert a load of them from doing their current day jobs (which is a pretty desperate attempt to hold the NHS together) what do you think the impact would be on the NHS? Clearly you need to strike a balance between shifting people to deliver the vaccine and leaving enough in the rest of the service to keep it limping along. And shifting people from one role to another is disruptive, so you minimise that too. On that basis, the most efficient use of NHS manpower is to do precisely what Drakeford was describing.
If this policy is so obviously dumb, where are the epidemiologists and doctors raising their concerns and saying their advice was ignored?
The way out of this mess is to vaccinate everyone as quickly as possible.
Anything other than that is a dereliction of duty, the output of which is avoidable deaths.
If they have the vaccine, logistics and means to deliver it, why would you hold it back, knowing people could die as a direct consequence?
phil_cardiff said:
saaby93 said:
phil_cardiff said:
https://twitter.com/fmwales/status/135121151874717...
Drakeford replies. Why he didn't take this line on R4 I don't know. Modern politics requires media polish, whether you like it or not.
Welsh media getting stick here and rightly so. The papers are mainly foreign owned and BBC Wales doesn't seem to give a st.
Is he talking about the Oxford vaccine as it comes in rather than the Pfizer one kept safe in two locations?Drakeford replies. Why he didn't take this line on R4 I don't know. Modern politics requires media polish, whether you like it or not.
Welsh media getting stick here and rightly so. The papers are mainly foreign owned and BBC Wales doesn't seem to give a s
t. I wish they'd publish vaccines administered as a % of vaccines received. And broken down regionally across the UK.
It'll be whatever is in the delivery chain that's leading to the problem.
Apparently in one place they were only doing vaccinations at the week end as thats when staff were available from their day jobs.
saaby93 said:
Drakefords only the mouth piece for what's happening - he doesnt have a magic wand.
It'll be whatever is in the delivery chain that's leading to the problem.
Apparently in one place they were only doing vaccinations at the week end as thats when staff were available from their day jobs.
Not according to Drakeford himself.It'll be whatever is in the delivery chain that's leading to the problem.
Apparently in one place they were only doing vaccinations at the week end as thats when staff were available from their day jobs.
He openly admitted that vaccinations were being slowed so as 'not to have vaccinators standing around doing nothing'.
MG CHRIS said:
Welsh labour have truly just shot themselves in the foot with this latest move. The excuse of we have only limited stock and we may run out earlier so lets spread it out is baffling. It opens them up to the critics to attack them. If they used them all up and didn't have new stock at least they can point fingers at either uk government or the drug company for the reason why they have run out.
At least getting those 200k+ vaccines that are stored are in the people that need them rather than being stored for the lame excuse of well it will keep the people administrating them busy for longer.
Ive kept a note of comments on the various facebook groups phw welsh government and during the start and the summer I would say they have had pretty good support however since the firebreak lockdown and the row over non essential items not being sold its flipped massively. This is another huge knock on support for them. If they get re-elected in may I have no hope for the country a call my home.
On another note over last week cases have been down a good 500 or so cases per day compared to the same period last week and deaths dropping too no signs of the new year parties everyone was talking about. Lets see if that continues over the rest of the month.
My guess is that they are struggling to get the rollout of the vaccine up to speed, and are using this "pacing ourselves" excuse to cover up the fact they couldn't do it any quicker.At least getting those 200k+ vaccines that are stored are in the people that need them rather than being stored for the lame excuse of well it will keep the people administrating them busy for longer.
Ive kept a note of comments on the various facebook groups phw welsh government and during the start and the summer I would say they have had pretty good support however since the firebreak lockdown and the row over non essential items not being sold its flipped massively. This is another huge knock on support for them. If they get re-elected in may I have no hope for the country a call my home.
On another note over last week cases have been down a good 500 or so cases per day compared to the same period last week and deaths dropping too no signs of the new year parties everyone was talking about. Lets see if that continues over the rest of the month.
After all, like you said if they did it quickly and ran out, they could then blame Westminster for it, and go on and on about how efficiently they have been vaccinating people.
Edit to add:
The various governments in the UK have painted themselves into a corner where having vaccination is the only way they will significantly ease restrictions, rightly or wrongly.
It could well be that England will reach that point first, with Wales significantly last.
It will be hard for Drakeford to say "Well because our vaccine rollout (an entirely devolved matter) has been slow, and our (devolved) health service is still overstretched, you all have to stay in lockdown for much longer than England!
Oh and remember to vote for us again in a few months"
Edited by Plymo on Tuesday 19th January 11:46
Plymo said:
My guess is that they are struggling to get the rollout of the vaccine up to speed, and are using this "pacing ourselves" excuse to cover up the fact they couldn't do it any quicker.
After all, like you said if they did it quickly and ran out, they could then blame Westminster for it, and go on and on about how efficiently they have been vaccinating people.
Edit to add:
The various governments in the UK have painted themselves into a corner where having vaccination is the only way they will significantly ease restrictions, rightly or wrongly.
It could well be that England will reach that point first, with Wales significantly last.
It will be hard for Drakeford to say "Well because our vaccine rollout (an entirely devolved matter) has been slow, and our (devolved) health service is still overstretched, you all have to stay in lockdown for much longer than England!
Oh and remember to vote for us again in a few months"
The vaccine roll out isn't entirely devolved. Supply is centrally controlled. After all, like you said if they did it quickly and ran out, they could then blame Westminster for it, and go on and on about how efficiently they have been vaccinating people.
Edit to add:
The various governments in the UK have painted themselves into a corner where having vaccination is the only way they will significantly ease restrictions, rightly or wrongly.
It could well be that England will reach that point first, with Wales significantly last.
It will be hard for Drakeford to say "Well because our vaccine rollout (an entirely devolved matter) has been slow, and our (devolved) health service is still overstretched, you all have to stay in lockdown for much longer than England!
Oh and remember to vote for us again in a few months"
Edited by Plymo on Tuesday 19th January 11:46
Same with healthcare. Administration is devolved but the overall funding pot is centrally controlled.
ATG said:
Has it crossed any of your minds that he might actually have a point?
Who delivers the vaccine? Healthcare professionals. So if you divert a load of them from doing their current day jobs (which is a pretty desperate attempt to hold the NHS together) what do you think the impact would be on the NHS? Clearly you need to strike a balance between shifting people to deliver the vaccine and leaving enough in the rest of the service to keep it limping along. And shifting people from one role to another is disruptive, so you minimise that too. On that basis, the most efficient use of NHS manpower is to do precisely what Drakeford was describing.
If this policy is so obviously dumb, where are the epidemiologists and doctors raising their concerns and saying their advice was ignored?
The only advantage to this method that I can see is reduced wastage. But I;m not an expert on vaccination roll outs. And if I was I doubt I'd be posting about it on Piston Heads. Who delivers the vaccine? Healthcare professionals. So if you divert a load of them from doing their current day jobs (which is a pretty desperate attempt to hold the NHS together) what do you think the impact would be on the NHS? Clearly you need to strike a balance between shifting people to deliver the vaccine and leaving enough in the rest of the service to keep it limping along. And shifting people from one role to another is disruptive, so you minimise that too. On that basis, the most efficient use of NHS manpower is to do precisely what Drakeford was describing.
If this policy is so obviously dumb, where are the epidemiologists and doctors raising their concerns and saying their advice was ignored?
swisstoni said:
There are lots of people qualified to deliver injections. Some might be retired nurses, Dr and paramedics, some might be dentists, even vets (I dunno).
I believe quite a few have come forward to help out.
My Sis is a registered nurse who now works for a medical company. She has an interview this week to fill a role delivering the vaccine.I believe quite a few have come forward to help out.
Could be an interesting few days - rumour mill of Cardiff Bay points to a possible covid rules break, or one that could be seen as such, by a group of Senedd Members.
It seems a UK national paper has some snaps and could soon be running with it.
If true, will be interesting to see who and what happened - and what will happen with them.
It seems a UK national paper has some snaps and could soon be running with it.
If true, will be interesting to see who and what happened - and what will happen with them.
ITV just published it https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2021-01-19/investig...
Guido naming one https://order-order.com/2021/01/19/welsh-senedd-me...
Interesting if that is true and Labour suspend him, as that would set a precedent of action for other parties to follow, which depending who it is, could be quite tricky!
Interesting if that is true and Labour suspend him, as that would set a precedent of action for other parties to follow, which depending who it is, could be quite tricky!
http://pembrokeshire-herald.com/63318/conservative...
[I]"Those attending the drinks party included Paul Smith, the Conservative Chief of Staff at the Senedd, Darren Millar, the Party’s Chief Whip and campaign coordinator, and Preseli Pembrokeshire MS and Conservative Senedd Group Leader Paul Davies."
[/I]
Leader of Welsh Conservatives Paul Davies there allegedly....
[I]"Those attending the drinks party included Paul Smith, the Conservative Chief of Staff at the Senedd, Darren Millar, the Party’s Chief Whip and campaign coordinator, and Preseli Pembrokeshire MS and Conservative Senedd Group Leader Paul Davies."
[/I]
Leader of Welsh Conservatives Paul Davies there allegedly....
ATG said:
Has it crossed any of your minds that he might actually have a point?
Who delivers the vaccine? Healthcare professionals. So if you divert a load of them from doing their current day jobs (which is a pretty desperate attempt to hold the NHS together) what do you think the impact would be on the NHS? Clearly you need to strike a balance between shifting people to deliver the vaccine and leaving enough in the rest of the service to keep it limping along. And shifting people from one role to another is disruptive, so you minimise that too. On that basis, the most efficient use of NHS manpower is to do precisely what Drakeford was describing.
If this policy is so obviously dumb, where are the epidemiologists and doctors raising their concerns and saying their advice was ignored?
Sure. But then I thought about it for a nanosecond and realised my first instincts were 100% correct. There is no healthcare based case for "evening out" the supply of vaccinations to ensure that "vaccinators are not standing around with nothing to do".Who delivers the vaccine? Healthcare professionals. So if you divert a load of them from doing their current day jobs (which is a pretty desperate attempt to hold the NHS together) what do you think the impact would be on the NHS? Clearly you need to strike a balance between shifting people to deliver the vaccine and leaving enough in the rest of the service to keep it limping along. And shifting people from one role to another is disruptive, so you minimise that too. On that basis, the most efficient use of NHS manpower is to do precisely what Drakeford was describing.
If this policy is so obviously dumb, where are the epidemiologists and doctors raising their concerns and saying their advice was ignored?
Your suggestion that the "healthcare professionals" who are "delivering" the vaccine can't be taken away from the front line is specious despite your carefully crafted ambiguity. This is about protecting lives not about protecting Drakeford. Your politics are showing and it's not a good look.
Here's one doctor who agrees. There are many other examples today.
Edited by WindyCommon on Tuesday 19th January 17:43
bmwmike said:
Drakeford seems to be turning the taps down to avoid vaccination staff getting bored when they run out.
meanwhile the stats do not look good
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-vac...
Seems it was weekend reporting zeromeanwhile the stats do not look good
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-vac...
robuk said:
bmwmike said:
Drakeford seems to be turning the taps down to avoid vaccination staff getting bored when they run out.
meanwhile the stats do not look good
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-vac...
Seems it was weekend reporting zeromeanwhile the stats do not look good
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-vac...
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff