Welsh lockdown
Discussion
Dick Dastardly said:
phil_cardiff said:
- Too poor
You are really going to have to work hard to convince me we stand a chance on our own. We receive billions more than our tax take and that's before everyone successful moves across the border.The first thing I'll do is move to the Cotswolds if this country votes independence and I'll shift my businesses to London. I employ almost 100 people in and around Cardiff. I know plenty of others that will do similar. What'll that do to the already screwed finances?
Hard to argue with that to be honest.
wobert said:
phil_cardiff said:
Landcrab_Six said:
The Penallta vaccination centre, set up weeks ago, still doesn't appear to have seen a single attendee. Once again empty, during the working day.
Dripford and Born Guessing are an absolute disgrace.
Absolutely. We should only construct vaccination centres when doses are 100% certain to be available. Not before. Dripford and Born Guessing are an absolute disgrace.
It's not as if Wales' supply was affected by a batch of vaccinations that failed testing this week is it?
It's almost as if you and certain other posters have an agenda to push.
Yes the roll out of vaccines has been slower than some regions of England, if not all. But then death rates as a percentage of a population are better which is decent considering the ageing Welsh population and societal issues NHS Wales faces.
As Mr. Miyagi said, “Lesson for whole life. Whole life have a balance. Everything be better.”
ked over by Welsh Labour since the WAG inception....??That responsibility lies firmly with Drakeford and Gething.
MG CHRIS said:
wobert said:
phil_cardiff said:
Landcrab_Six said:
The Penallta vaccination centre, set up weeks ago, still doesn't appear to have seen a single attendee. Once again empty, during the working day.
Dripford and Born Guessing are an absolute disgrace.
Absolutely. We should only construct vaccination centres when doses are 100% certain to be available. Not before. Dripford and Born Guessing are an absolute disgrace.
It's not as if Wales' supply was affected by a batch of vaccinations that failed testing this week is it?
It's almost as if you and certain other posters have an agenda to push.
Yes the roll out of vaccines has been slower than some regions of England, if not all. But then death rates as a percentage of a population are better which is decent considering the ageing Welsh population and societal issues NHS Wales faces.
As Mr. Miyagi said, “Lesson for whole life. Whole life have a balance. Everything be better.”
ked over by Welsh Labour since the WAG inception....??That responsibility lies firmly with Drakeford and Gething.
ks up one a race track never built, has any tvr been built in wales yet no that's right the building still in the same state it was when the last owner left. Cardiff airport nobody in wales actually uses most people I know will use Bristol over Cardiff, the failed m4 relief road and failed transport improvements in Cardiff. So all the brilliant new plans all based in south east wales haven't happened while the rest of wales has been .
phil_cardiff said:
So you'd uproot your entire businesses, with associated costs, even if Wales had lower corporation tax rates, income tax rates and wages of your staff. To London, where you'll pay the highest labour charges in the UK and amongst the highest in Europe.
Hard to argue with that to be honest.
So you’ve decided to completely dodge the question? I wasn’t expecting anything else really from someone who lives in the fantasy world where independence makes any sense.Hard to argue with that to be honest.
Plus, lower corporation tax from these pound shop communists? Now I know you are either a clown or a troll.
Dick Dastardly said:
phil_cardiff said:
So you'd uproot your entire businesses, with associated costs, even if Wales had lower corporation tax rates, income tax rates and wages of your staff. To London, where you'll pay the highest labour charges in the UK and amongst the highest in Europe.
Hard to argue with that to be honest.
So you’ve decided to completely dodge the question? I wasn’t expecting anything else really from someone who lives in the fantasy world where independence makes any sense.Hard to argue with that to be honest.
Plus, lower corporation tax from these pound shop communists? Now I know you are either a clown or a troll.
Just questioning the logic of anyone who says they'd leave a country without even knowing what it would be like.
At least your exalted company in Paul Daniels and Frank Bruno had a manifesto to base their idle threats on
In theory it's perfectly possible to have an independent Wales, it's not exactly a small country really - Jersey manages well enough for example BUT does so as a tax haven well regulated offshore financial centre, with 0% corporation tax, 5% vat and a much lower level of public services. Lefty socialist utopia it is not!
It also has always been independent to some degree so hasn't had to "divorce" itself.
Wales could probably do it, but it would take serious cuts to spending, pillaging of all the natural resources and so on, pretty much the opposite to what the current government (and therefore presumably the majority of people) want.
For clarity I think it's a very bad idea!
It also has always been independent to some degree so hasn't had to "divorce" itself.
Wales could probably do it, but it would take serious cuts to spending, pillaging of all the natural resources and so on, pretty much the opposite to what the current government (and therefore presumably the majority of people) want.
For clarity I think it's a very bad idea!
Plymo said:
In theory it's perfectly possible to have an independent Wales, it's not exactly a small country really - Jersey manages well enough for example BUT does so as a tax haven well regulated offshore financial centre, with 0% corporation tax, 5% vat and a much lower level of public services. Lefty socialist utopia it is not!
It also has always been independent to some degree so hasn't had to "divorce" itself.
Wales could probably do it, but it would take serious cuts to spending, pillaging of all the natural resources and so on, pretty much the opposite to what the current government (and therefore presumably the majority of people) want.
For clarity I think it's a very bad idea!
It 100% would be very challenging. Apparently Wales currently has a 13bn annual fiscal deficit. However that figure includes proportional figures for spending that doesn't benefit Wales such as HS2 etc. It also has always been independent to some degree so hasn't had to "divorce" itself.
Wales could probably do it, but it would take serious cuts to spending, pillaging of all the natural resources and so on, pretty much the opposite to what the current government (and therefore presumably the majority of people) want.
For clarity I think it's a very bad idea!
Then you have the spending on defence which is currently in excess of 3% of Wales' GDPR - disproportionately high.
A challenge for Wales would be it's relatively large amounts of citizens of pensionable age and who pays for them.
I can see why people think independence is a bad idea but I dare say the same arguments and opinions were used against Irish, Cypriot, Maltese (and so on) independence at the time.
Actually, thinking about it, 3% of GDP on defence is a bloody bargain compared to how much it would cost to equip any kind of armed services post independence.
A Eurofighter Typhoon is around £110m.
A single Type 45 destroyer is alleged to be £1bn.
Unless you advocate having no military and being a sitting duck reliant on NATO and possibly the EU for defence?
A Eurofighter Typhoon is around £110m.
A single Type 45 destroyer is alleged to be £1bn.
Unless you advocate having no military and being a sitting duck reliant on NATO and possibly the EU for defence?
Landcrab_Six said:
Actually, thinking about it, 3% of GDP on defence is a bloody bargain compared to how much it would cost to equip any kind of armed services post independence.
A Eurofighter Typhoon is around £110m.
A single Type 45 destroyer is alleged to be £1bn.
Unless you advocate having no military and being a sitting duck reliant on NATO and possibly the EU for defence?
Defence spending wouldn't be a priority. Nobody fears Iceland's mighty armed forces but they remain intact. Let's face it, if/when Russia/China declare war Wales would be screwed in any given circumstances. A Eurofighter Typhoon is around £110m.
A single Type 45 destroyer is alleged to be £1bn.
Unless you advocate having no military and being a sitting duck reliant on NATO and possibly the EU for defence?
The united kingdom "union" is fked lets face it. Once Scotland leaves, it will just be Wales and england and I can't imagine that working out well for Wales. Look how bad it is now with the english focussed west minster. Wales needs full devolution imo and no it wont be easy but the alternative (if Scotland exits UK) is just as bad.
Personally Im all for self determination, for the same reasons brexiters voted for brexit. I voted remain in the EU, but now, seeing as leaving is the flavour of the day, lets at it.
ked lets face it. Once Scotland leaves, it will just be Wales and england and I can't imagine that working out well for Wales. Look how bad it is now with the english focussed west minster. Wales needs full devolution imo and no it wont be easy but the alternative (if Scotland exits UK) is just as bad.Personally Im all for self determination, for the same reasons brexiters voted for brexit. I voted remain in the EU, but now, seeing as leaving is the flavour of the day, lets at it.
phil_cardiff said:
Defence spending wouldn't be a priority. Nobody fears Iceland's mighty armed forces but they remain intact. Let's face it, if/when Russia/China declare war Wales would be screwed in any given circumstances.
So, Wales would need to re-join the EU. If the EU accepted Wales.I'm largely a Europhile, but only because the UK had some very serious opt-outs from the rest of the EU27. Including maintaining Sterling.
Wales would be a very poor country if forced to adopt the Euro at current exchange rates. We'd make Portugal look like a wealthy nation of milk and honey.
phil_cardiff said:
Defence spending wouldn't be a priority. Nobody fears Iceland's mighty armed forces but they remain intact. Let's face it, if/when Russia/China declare war Wales would be screwed in any given circumstances.
Wouldn't it? There's lots of UK defence money spent in Wales.Wales is the home of the £4.5Bn AJAX programme in Merthyr, DECA F35 maintenance, BAE Glascoed Ordnance, St Athan, Thales, Qioptic, Raytheon....
Landcrab_Six said:
phil_cardiff said:
Defence spending wouldn't be a priority. Nobody fears Iceland's mighty armed forces but they remain intact. Let's face it, if/when Russia/China declare war Wales would be screwed in any given circumstances.
So, Wales would need to re-join the EU. If the EU accepted Wales.I'm largely a Europhile, but only because the UK had some very serious opt-outs from the rest of the EU27. Including maintaining Sterling.
Wales would be a very poor country if forced to adopt the Euro at current exchange rates. We'd make Portugal look like a wealthy nation of milk and honey.
Evanivitch said:
phil_cardiff said:
Defence spending wouldn't be a priority. Nobody fears Iceland's mighty armed forces but they remain intact. Let's face it, if/when Russia/China declare war Wales would be screwed in any given circumstances.
Wouldn't it? There's lots of UK defence money spent in Wales.Wales is the home of the £4.5Bn AJAX programme in Merthyr, DECA F35 maintenance, BAE Glascoed Ordnance, St Athan, Thales, Qioptic, Raytheon....
Could an independent Wales retain some of those services? Possibly but almost certainly not all. What other inward investments could an independent Wales attract to make up the shortfall?
phil_cardiff said:
Evanivitch said:
phil_cardiff said:
Defence spending wouldn't be a priority. Nobody fears Iceland's mighty armed forces but they remain intact. Let's face it, if/when Russia/China declare war Wales would be screwed in any given circumstances.
Wouldn't it? There's lots of UK defence money spent in Wales.Wales is the home of the £4.5Bn AJAX programme in Merthyr, DECA F35 maintenance, BAE Glascoed Ordnance, St Athan, Thales, Qioptic, Raytheon....
Could an independent Wales retain some of those services? Possibly but almost certainly not all. What other inward investments could an independent Wales attract to make up the shortfall?
Evanivitch said:
phil_cardiff said:
Evanivitch said:
phil_cardiff said:
Defence spending wouldn't be a priority. Nobody fears Iceland's mighty armed forces but they remain intact. Let's face it, if/when Russia/China declare war Wales would be screwed in any given circumstances.
Wouldn't it? There's lots of UK defence money spent in Wales.Wales is the home of the £4.5Bn AJAX programme in Merthyr, DECA F35 maintenance, BAE Glascoed Ordnance, St Athan, Thales, Qioptic, Raytheon....
Could an independent Wales retain some of those services? Possibly but almost certainly not all. What other inward investments could an independent Wales attract to make up the shortfall?
I'm not 100% convinced about Welsh independence, there is still some doubt in my mind, but the more I look the more I find to support it and less to dissuade me. So many unknowns though which naturally create uncertainty.
eccles said:
What's all this independence rubbish got to do with the Welsh lockdown?
Always fun when the forum police arrive 
Happy now?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-55758774
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