How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 15)
Discussion
MB is always interesting...........Here is a fairly recent, informal, commentary from him regarding the EU / Euro / Eurozone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIyYijA0h-8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIyYijA0h-8
How well prepared for Brexit are we?
I attended a webinar this week between an important industry sector organisation (not fishing
) and various UK government departments. About 70% of questions asked about the practicalities were avoided or left unanswered. A little shambolic and embarrassing......
Government were asking industry to be prepared as there are only ten weeks to go..... Does not impact our company directly in any substantive way, but fear for other companies....
I attended a webinar this week between an important industry sector organisation (not fishing
) and various UK government departments. About 70% of questions asked about the practicalities were avoided or left unanswered. A little shambolic and embarrassing......Government were asking industry to be prepared as there are only ten weeks to go..... Does not impact our company directly in any substantive way, but fear for other companies....
roger.mellie said:
I know this could sound snobbish but the average FOM argument at the time was much less academic and principled than yours.
We had loads of volumes of discussion pre the referendum - it was frequently brought up as an issue for the EU for the future - it was one of my 273 reasons too. Those that lost the vote constantly reaching for the poor thick people didn’t understand when they said “furiners takin ur jubs” is their way of making them feel better about the vote, that they were right even if they lost.
mike9009 said:
How well prepared for Brexit are we?
I attended a webinar this week between an important industry sector organisation (not fishing ) and various UK government departments. About 70% of questions asked about the practicalities were avoided or left unanswered. A little shambolic and embarrassing......
Government were asking industry to be prepared as there are only ten weeks to go..... Does not impact our company directly in any substantive way, but fear for other companies....
I fear for my small business. Around 50% of sales are from the EU. Any delays at the border will be a disaster.I attended a webinar this week between an important industry sector organisation (not fishing
) and various UK government departments. About 70% of questions asked about the practicalities were avoided or left unanswered. A little shambolic and embarrassing......Government were asking industry to be prepared as there are only ten weeks to go..... Does not impact our company directly in any substantive way, but fear for other companies....
The webinars have been telling me stuff we don't need to know or already know but anything useful they don't know yet.
I wish someone could give me a tangible benefit of all this as it's looking like it's going to the end of many small businesses like mine who are also reeling from covid.
Anyone who thinks this is a good idea now is retarded
Thanks, obviously I haven’t had a chance to watch those links yet but I will give them a chance.
You could add Ireland to the list of countries the troika bullied and it’s one I’m much more familiar with. However, a quick google would indicate EU sentiment is still stronger than anti EU in those countries. Very much so in the case of Ireland. Largely as the populace recognise the benefits of membership.
To Paul and Murph’s point above. Heaven preserve us from governments that don’t enact the “will of the people”. As stated, brexit is done, it’s not the ball in play. Getting a good deal is. The level of public and industry support for no deal is extremely low so if you want a gov to honour “the will of the people” you’ll not support no deal.
You could add Ireland to the list of countries the troika bullied and it’s one I’m much more familiar with. However, a quick google would indicate EU sentiment is still stronger than anti EU in those countries. Very much so in the case of Ireland. Largely as the populace recognise the benefits of membership.
To Paul and Murph’s point above. Heaven preserve us from governments that don’t enact the “will of the people”
. As stated, brexit is done, it’s not the ball in play. Getting a good deal is. The level of public and industry support for no deal is extremely low so if you want a gov to honour “the will of the people” you’ll not support no deal.B'stard Child said:
roger.mellie said:
I know this could sound snobbish but the average FOM argument at the time was much less academic and principled than yours.
We had loads of volumes of discussion pre the referendum - it was frequently brought up as an issue for the EU for the future - it was one of my 273 reasons too. Those that lost the vote constantly reaching for the poor thick people didn’t understand when they said “furiners takin ur jubs” is their way of making them feel better about the vote, that they were right even if they lost.
rm163603 said:
mike9009 said:
How well prepared for Brexit are we?
I attended a webinar this week between an important industry sector organisation (not fishing ) and various UK government departments. About 70% of questions asked about the practicalities were avoided or left unanswered. A little shambolic and embarrassing......
Government were asking industry to be prepared as there are only ten weeks to go..... Does not impact our company directly in any substantive way, but fear for other companies....
I fear for my small business. Around 50% of sales are from the EU. Any delays at the border will be a disaster.I attended a webinar this week between an important industry sector organisation (not fishing
) and various UK government departments. About 70% of questions asked about the practicalities were avoided or left unanswered. A little shambolic and embarrassing......Government were asking industry to be prepared as there are only ten weeks to go..... Does not impact our company directly in any substantive way, but fear for other companies....
The webinars have been telling me stuff we don't need to know or already know but anything useful they don't know yet.
I wish someone could give me a tangible benefit of all this as it's looking like it's going to the end of many small businesses like mine who are also reeling from covid.
Anyone who thinks this is a good idea now is retarded
roger.mellie said:
B'stard Child said:
roger.mellie said:
I know this could sound snobbish but the average FOM argument at the time was much less academic and principled than yours.
We had loads of volumes of discussion pre the referendum - it was frequently brought up as an issue for the EU for the future - it was one of my 273 reasons too. Those that lost the vote constantly reaching for the poor thick people didn’t understand when they said “furiners takin ur jubs” is their way of making them feel better about the vote, that they were right even if they lost.
jsf said:
gruffalo said:
It the the EU that forced a regime change in Greece to make the country agree to take the bail out to make sure the Euro Zone did not disintegrate and therefore probably the EU as well.
What would arguably have been the right thing for the people of Greece would have been to drop out of the Euro return to their original currency and devalue it to attract the tourists and export markets back. That was not allowed to happen because of the threat to the EU project that would cause.
When the project is more important than the people the project is meant to serve is that not an indication that the project is broken?
For Greece, Italy and Portugal their financial futures were sacrificed for the good of the EU not its people.
The Greek bailout was to save the major European banks, who were all leveraged to such a level with Greek debt (because a Greek Euro was the same as a German Euro until they realised it wasnt as the ECB was a fake central bank) they would have taken down the entire European banking system. France was especially vulnerable.What would arguably have been the right thing for the people of Greece would have been to drop out of the Euro return to their original currency and devalue it to attract the tourists and export markets back. That was not allowed to happen because of the threat to the EU project that would cause.
When the project is more important than the people the project is meant to serve is that not an indication that the project is broken?
For Greece, Italy and Portugal their financial futures were sacrificed for the good of the EU not its people.
The troika forced Greece to accept that bailout, the money went into and then straight back out of Greece to pay down the over leveraged banks.
Greece should have defaulted, it would have cost them a fraction of the bailout costs, but it would have destroyed the Euro and most of the major banks.
Still a great talk 5 years on. https://youtu.be/rGvZil0qWPg
Many brexiters seem unable to do much more than hate the EU.
roger.mellie said:
My company is pretty well insulated from the potential impacts of brexit but I know many aren’t. Living in NI and regularly crossing the border it’s blatantly obvious how much more effort the Irish gov have put into preparing businesses vs the uk. I’m not saying they’ve done a perfect job but there’s a stark difference in the level of public campaigns etc, even things as simple as radio ads telling companies where to go for info. I’ve not checked but I’m reasonably sure some of that has been going on for at least 2 years.
I have little need for it in the line of work I'm in, but I've been hearing similar ads on UK radio for some time.Literally 5secs searching on Google brings up loads of links, including a questionnaire type arrangement from the government website which provides plenty of detail (queue someone noting it doesn't cover their billion pound business exporting tie-dyed ostrich feathers to Bulgaria and how awful it all is).
Are we really saying that businesses who are critically dependent on EU trade cannot use Google? Visit the UK gov website? Or find other professional assistance if they really cannot self serve?
roger.mellie said:
Thanks, obviously I haven’t had a chance to watch those links yet but I will give them a chance.
You could add Ireland to the list of countries the troika bullied and it’s one I’m much more familiar with. However, a quick google would indicate EU sentiment is still stronger than anti EU in those countries. Very much so in the case of Ireland. Largely as the populace recognise the benefits of membership.
To Paul and Murph’s point above. Heaven preserve us from governments that don’t enact the “will of the people”. As stated, brexit is done, it’s not the ball in play. Getting a good deal is. The level of public and industry support for no deal is extremely low so if you want a gov to honour “the will of the people” you’ll not support no deal.
With you 100% regarding the passage in bold.You could add Ireland to the list of countries the troika bullied and it’s one I’m much more familiar with. However, a quick google would indicate EU sentiment is still stronger than anti EU in those countries. Very much so in the case of Ireland. Largely as the populace recognise the benefits of membership.
To Paul and Murph’s point above. Heaven preserve us from governments that don’t enact the “will of the people”
. As stated, brexit is done, it’s not the ball in play. Getting a good deal is. The level of public and industry support for no deal is extremely low so if you want a gov to honour “the will of the people” you’ll not support no deal.Regarding the point you made about EU popularity. ...........The data here is 18 months old but I think the points raised, regarding citizens' opinion of the EU, are still pertinent. Who knows whether significant factors such as QMV, COVID response and debt mutualisation will have had a positive or negative impact? https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/03/19/euro...
The benefits of EU membership a clear but do tend to vary from country to country; it is hardly surprising that the net beneficiaries view membership so positively.
The following graph from the PEW report is interesting in relation to the point made earlier about wage suppression / stagnation. Particularly in the net contributing countries.
rm163603 said:
mike9009 said:
How well prepared for Brexit are we?
I attended a webinar this week between an important industry sector organisation (not fishing ) and various UK government departments. About 70% of questions asked about the practicalities were avoided or left unanswered. A little shambolic and embarrassing......
Government were asking industry to be prepared as there are only ten weeks to go..... Does not impact our company directly in any substantive way, but fear for other companies....
I fear for my small business. Around 50% of sales are from the EU. Any delays at the border will be a disaster.I attended a webinar this week between an important industry sector organisation (not fishing
) and various UK government departments. About 70% of questions asked about the practicalities were avoided or left unanswered. A little shambolic and embarrassing......Government were asking industry to be prepared as there are only ten weeks to go..... Does not impact our company directly in any substantive way, but fear for other companies....
The webinars have been telling me stuff we don't need to know or already know but anything useful they don't know yet.
I wish someone could give me a tangible benefit of all this as it's looking like it's going to the end of many small businesses like mine who are also reeling from covid.
Anyone who thinks this is a good idea now is retarded
Murph7355 said:
roger.mellie said:
My company is pretty well insulated from the potential impacts of brexit but I know many aren’t. Living in NI and regularly crossing the border it’s blatantly obvious how much more effort the Irish gov have put into preparing businesses vs the uk. I’m not saying they’ve done a perfect job but there’s a stark difference in the level of public campaigns etc, even things as simple as radio ads telling companies where to go for info. I’ve not checked but I’m reasonably sure some of that has been going on for at least 2 years.
I have little need for it in the line of work I'm in, but I've been hearing similar ads on UK radio for some time.Literally 5secs searching on Google brings up loads of links, including a questionnaire type arrangement from the government website which provides plenty of detail (queue someone noting it doesn't cover their billion pound business exporting tie-dyed ostrich feathers to Bulgaria and how awful it all is).
Are we really saying that businesses who are critically dependent on EU trade cannot use Google? Visit the UK gov website? Or find other professional assistance if they really cannot self serve?
Edited by roger.mellie on Sunday 25th October 10:17
Crackie said:
With you 100% regarding the passage in bold.
Regarding the point you made about EU popularity. ...........The data here is 18 months old but I think the points raised, regarding citizens' opinion of the EU, are still pertinent. Who knows whether significant factors such as QMV, COVID response and debt mutualisation will have had a positive or negative impact? https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/03/19/euro...
The benefits of EU membership a clear but do tend to vary from country to country; it is hardly surprising that the net beneficiaries view membership so positively.
The following graph from the PEW report is interesting in relation to the point made earlier about wage suppression / stagnation. Particularly in the net contributing countries.
Agreed that the benefits are not shared equally (it’s in some ways the point), however, the implicit assumption that net contributors are not beneficiaries is not a cut and dry argument. Regarding the point you made about EU popularity. ...........The data here is 18 months old but I think the points raised, regarding citizens' opinion of the EU, are still pertinent. Who knows whether significant factors such as QMV, COVID response and debt mutualisation will have had a positive or negative impact? https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2019/03/19/euro...
The benefits of EU membership a clear but do tend to vary from country to country; it is hardly surprising that the net beneficiaries view membership so positively.
The following graph from the PEW report is interesting in relation to the point made earlier about wage suppression / stagnation. Particularly in the net contributing countries.
Wage suppression is a big issue. I don’t think brexit is the answer to that problem in a globalised economy. If I did I’d probably have more support for some brexit arguments. I agree the disaffection created by it motivated the brexit vote but I don’t see how it’ll fix anything.
roger.mellie said:
Murph7355 said:
roger.mellie said:
My company is pretty well insulated from the potential impacts of brexit but I know many aren’t. Living in NI and regularly crossing the border it’s blatantly obvious how much more effort the Irish gov have put into preparing businesses vs the uk. I’m not saying they’ve done a perfect job but there’s a stark difference in the level of public campaigns etc, even things as simple as radio ads telling companies where to go for info. I’ve not checked but I’m reasonably sure some of that has been going on for at least 2 years.
I have little need for it in the line of work I'm in, but I've been hearing similar ads on UK radio for some time.Literally 5secs searching on Google brings up loads of links, including a questionnaire type arrangement from the government website which provides plenty of detail (queue someone noting it doesn't cover their billion pound business exporting tie-dyed ostrich feathers to Bulgaria and how awful it all is).
Are we really saying that businesses who are critically dependent on EU trade cannot use Google? Visit the UK gov website? Or find other professional assistance if they really cannot self serve?
Johnson's involvement with the WA occurred some months after taking up his position as PM, so realistically a year ago.
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