How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 15)

[Mrr T]

Sway said:

Mrr T said:

Sway said:

What are the UK asking for above a normal FTA?

I hope we are. Agreements on:
Access to the EU electricity market.
An open sky agreement.
Data exchange.
Nuclear.
Haulage.
Acceptance of qualifications.
Sure there are quite a lot more needed.

These are all things separate to a trade deal.

To suggest that not agreeing tariff free trading of goods blocks those agreements, well, let's just say that it isn't the UK that's looking like it might breach the WA...

As far as I am aware the current negotiation are about the future relationship. That's quite a lot more than a FTA. If BJ and chums have done anything we'll its to convince the MSM it all about an FTA and fishing. It not all of the above need to be resolved in these talks.

As for the WA it contains almost no mention of the future relationship. So no the only country which has breached the WA is the UK. There will be some fun days in the courts.

[Sway]

Mrr T said:

Sway said:

Mrr T said:

Sway said:

What are the UK asking for above a normal FTA?

I hope we are. Agreements on:
Access to the EU electricity market.
An open sky agreement.
Data exchange.
Nuclear.
Haulage.
Acceptance of qualifications.
Sure there are quite a lot more needed.

These are all things separate to a trade deal.

To suggest that not agreeing tariff free trading of goods blocks those agreements, well, let's just say that it isn't the UK that's looking like it might breach the WA...

As far as I am aware the current negotiation are about the future relationship. That's quite a lot more than a FTA. If BJ and chums have done anything we'll its to convince the MSM it all about an FTA and fishing. It not all of the above need to be resolved in these talks.

As for the WA it contains almost no mention of the future relationship. So no the only country which has breached the WA is the UK. There will be some fun days in the courts.

Then you've really not been paying attention...

[Murph7355]

Mrr T said:

....
As for the WA it contains almost no mention of the future relationship. So no the only country which has breached the WA is the UK. There will be some fun days in the courts.

Look on the bright side - it'll give an unending source of bantz material for here in the coming years.

It'll be tres boring if 1st Jan comes and the world doesn't stop turning. Not sure what you'll do with yourself

[CaptainSlow]

Murph7355 said:

Mrr T said:

....
As for the WA it contains almost no mention of the future relationship. So no the only country which has breached the WA is the UK. There will be some fun days in the courts.

Look on the bright side - it'll give an unending source of bantz material for here in the coming years.

It'll be tres boring if 1st Jan comes and the world doesn't stop turning. Not sure what you'll do with yourself

I'm pretty sure Europe will turn into a war zone as we were told the EU has been the reason for peace since 1945.

[Murph7355]

CaptainSlow said:

I'm pretty sure Europe will turn into a war zone as we were told the EU has been the reason for peace since 1945.

tbf the EU isn't disappearing, we're just choosing not to be a part of it any more

[gooner1]

Sway said:

roger.mellie said:

Sway said:

roger.mellie said:

Sway said:

What are the UK asking for above a normal FTA?

One example off the top of my head - rules of origin, and authority to self certify products as complying to EU standards. No idea if the UK are still asking for it but it's the first example that came to mind in response to your question. If they're not asking now it doesn't change the fact it's one of several examples of things the EU don't "normally" agree as part of FTAs.

We asked for a specific RoO consideration, which isn't unusual in a FTA.

There's also absolutely nothing unusual about certification of goods occurring in producing nation. My employer stamps goods made in the US with CE marks every single day...

So neither of those examples are atypical within a FTA, and one isn't atypical without a FTA!

I don't doubt your employer does, nor that there'll be an audit mechanism more stringent than the one the UK proposed.

An FTA is the sum of all of its components. Cherry picking clauses that have been agreed with another party is meaningless unless viewed from that perspective. Geography, history, politics and circumstances all mean that the UK are quite rightly pushing for a tailored deal. It would represent a sad lack of ambition if they weren't.

Any details on the "audit requirements proposed" by the UK, or how they differ from typical CE certification?

You stated very clearly that we were asking for more than a typical FTA, hence we should be willing to give more than other countries with FTAs. Except now you can't point to any actual examples of this - other than to now state that it's unambitious to not ask for more!

Perhaps, the reason we're not asking for more, is because we don't want to offer more... That's not unambitious, it's pragmatic.

Dodger has history for making unfounded claims. Shame really but hey ho.

[anonymous-user]

CaptainSlow said:

I'm pretty sure Europe will turn into a war zone as we were told the EU has been the reason for peace since 1945.

Here's a nice link to Boris' favourite publication, The Spectator
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/they-won-the-w...

The mission now is to "build back better" with the "northern powerhouse" restoring pride and glory. It'll all be over by Christmas...

[anonymous-user]

Mrr T said:

As for the WA it contains almost no mention of the future relationship. So no the only country which has breached the WA is the UK. There will be some fun days in the courts.

How has the UK breached the WA?

[Borghetto]

Mortarboard said:

Anyone else get this level of trade access to the EU in the same manner?
Any include services?

If not, what makes you think the Uk is going to get this FTA?

Surely an FTA with china and/or the USA should be a bigger priority now the UK has left?

M xxx.

[Mrr T]

Murph7355 said:

Mrr T said:

....
As for the WA it contains almost no mention of the future relationship. So no the only country which has breached the WA is the UK. There will be some fun days in the courts.

Look on the bright side - it'll give an unending source of bantz material for here in the coming years.

It'll be tres boring if 1st Jan comes and the world doesn't stop turning. Not sure what you'll do with yourself

I suspect the world will continue to turn. I am also sure with BJ and chums in charge things will not turn out well. So should have plenty of material to wind up those who decided leaving the EU with no plan was a good idea.

[Ructions]

roger.mellie said:

Ructions said:

Following the success of outsourcing free school meals to the Premier League, the British Government is to handover responsibility for Brexit negotiations to the British Darts Organisation.

Darts players are focussed on achieving their targets, it might work

Who is running the Department for International Trade, Jim Davidson?

https://twitter.com/tradegovuk/status/132138358110...

[crankedup]

rockin said:

CaptainSlow said:

I'm pretty sure Europe will turn into a war zone as we were told the EU has been the reason for peace since 1945.

Here's a nice link to Boris' favourite publication, The Spectator
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/they-won-the-w...

The mission now is to "build back better" with the "northern powerhouse" restoring pride and glory. It'll all be over by Christmas...

Heffer is saying in his article that young people of today do not have moral fibre or Nationalistic pride/attitude.Thats what I interpret from the article and he might possibly. be correct in that assertion if that is what he is driving at.
In view of that the current P.M has the ambition to restore the whole Country back to prosperity and purpose within a Global market. Personally I see nothing negative about that ambition, however it will take generation and who knows what may be happening on the Global stage next year never mind a generation of years.

[Borghetto]

Sway said:

Moving to a FTA is, as the EU bang on about repeatedly, less favourable terms. They're pretty much the lowest terms genuinely friendly nations have with each other.

The premise of the EU not seeking to engage with a straightforward FTA is a rather petulant behaviour of viewing someone leaving the club negatively. If it's such a bad thing, leaving the EU - then why create the mechanism to do so?

There are parallels with the decline of the Hanseatic League. Is history repeating itself?

[anonymous-user]

Tuna said:

I really don't believe that's true - it's verging on tinfoil hat territory.

An agreed FTA with the EU would be a massive political win for the Tories just when they need it most, and set our political project back on track.

It wouldn't be a 'political win', it is merely delivering what was promised.

On the tin foil hattery, you're more than likely right. However, I tend to look at what people do as opposed to what they say (especially so with politicians of every persuasion). I could be wrong, I hope so, but I have a nagging feeling Boris has been aiming for no deal all along. If that were the case, you'd have to look for a motive. It certainly wouldn't be to benefit the country, or his own or his own party's political prospects. It is fairly incompatible with all of them. Particularly when you have the pandemic costs to deal with. Look for who might have levers on Boris and, as always, follow the money.

[anonymous-user]

Mrr T said:

I suspect the world will continue to turn. I am also sure with BJ and chums in charge things will not turn out well. So should have plenty of material to wind up those who decided leaving the EU with no plan was a good idea.

Cameron thought the plan was to leave the SM. https://youtu.be/zNnh-KhiLm0

[Mrr T]

jsf said:

Mrr T said:

I suspect the world will continue to turn. I am also sure with BJ and chums in charge things will not turn out well. So should have plenty of material to wind up those who decided leaving the EU with no plan was a good idea.

Cameron thought the plan was to leave the SM. https://youtu.be/zNnh-KhiLm0

Unless I am mistaken Cameron was on the remain team so why should be be the source of a plan for the leave team.

[Sway]

Mrr T said:

jsf said:

Mrr T said:

I suspect the world will continue to turn. I am also sure with BJ and chums in charge things will not turn out well. So should have plenty of material to wind up those who decided leaving the EU with no plan was a good idea.

Cameron thought the plan was to leave the SM. https://youtu.be/zNnh-KhiLm0

Unless I am mistaken Cameron was on the remain team so why should be be the source of a plan for the leave team.

He was on the "leading the country" team - and at the time of the referendum campaign was clear he would see through the result.

One of the biggest travesties of modern governance was Cameron blocking the Civil Service from planning and preparing.

Of course, you're outraged about that, aren't you T? After all, are you not someone that would have voted leave if there had been a decent plan to exit?

[Mrr T]

jsf said:

Mrr T said:

As for the WA it contains almost no mention of the future relationship. So no the only country which has breached the WA is the UK. There will be some fun days in the courts.

How has the UK breached the WA?

I believe the IMB breaches the good faith provision of the WA. Should be fun to see the UK defence. Not sure BJ not reading or understanding the WA will be a good defence. The idiot defence does not normally work.

[andymadmak]

Mrr T said:

jsf said:

Mrr T said:

As for the WA it contains almost no mention of the future relationship. So no the only country which has breached the WA is the UK. There will be some fun days in the courts.

How has the UK breached the WA?

I believe the IMB breaches the good faith provision of the WA. Should be fun to see the UK defence. Not sure BJ not reading or understanding the WA will be a good defence. The idiot defence does not normally work.

Not this guff again! How many times??????

[Mortarboard]

From my viewpoint, it looks like the UK wants/wanted a pretty comprehensive FTA.

That's something the EU hasn't done before, and for all sorts of reasons would reserve for EU members. In other words, the "middle ground" between limited FTA and full membership (or close to it, ala norway) isn't something the EU has any interest in.

M.