How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 15)

[anonymous-user]

DeepEnd said:

jsf said:

IforB said:

US "die hard remainers" washed our hands of it a long time ago, when it became obvious the lunatics were running the asylum.

Was that when the UK electorate kicked you in the sponge to remind you what democracy means at the EU elections or the last GE? Or was it before then?

Probably around that time yes. After the EU elections but once the woeful opposition fell for the oven ready trap, the last chance to avoid this emerging outcome was lost for good.

Democracy is not a guarantee of avoiding making awful mistakes. A democratic mistake sure, but a mistake nevertheless in the eyes of many. History is littered with them. We all have to live with the consequences and make the best of the outcome.

Do you think Trump was a good democratic outcome, or in hindsight a bit of a faux pas?

Can you answer that without using an insult?

I didn't ask you. I also haven't insulted anyone, I asked you two questions you have yet to answer.

Trump is none of my business, for some in the USA he has been a good outcome, hence he received the 2nd largest number of votes in USA presidential election history this most recent time. Not enough to win, but he clearly resonates with a lot of people in the USA. Trump may be gone soon, but what he represents is only having a sabbatical, you have to hope Biden and Harris don't fk it up.

[valiant]

jsf said:

Fittster said:

jsf said:

Quite impressive how they are managing the Kent lorries, last night 400 stuck, right now 160, tonight they are implementing the Brexit contingency on the M20 that will keep flows on M20 going for all other traffic etc. What used to take 4 weeks will now take 4 hours due to the changes in the barrier designs on the M20.

source for those numbers?

The Department of transport is currently advising haulage firms to avoid Kent, which seems odd for a queue of 160.

https://twitter.com/transportgovuk/status/13410576...

The press conference just taken place with Boris and the transport minister.

They wouldn’t be fibbing, would they?

[DeepEnd]

jsf said:

I didn't ask you. I also haven't insulted anyone, I asked you two questions you have yet to answer.

Trump is none of my business, for some in the USA he has been a good outcome, hence he received the 2nd largest number of votes in USA presidential election history this most recent time. Not enough to win, but he clearly resonates with a lot of people in the USA. Trump may be gone soon, but what he represents is only having a sabbatical, you have to hope Biden and Harris don't fk it up.

Is calling people “thick” not an insult? You’ve done it twice today.

Trump a good outcome? For who? The Proud Boys?

[barryrs]

DeepEnd said:

Is calling people “thick” not an insult? You’ve done it twice today.

Trump a good outcome? For who? The Proud Boys?

Circa 74 million people?

[anonymous-user]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

jsf said:

Things change every nanosecond. Can you be more specific?

You know exactly what I mean. It is ludicrous to continue forcing a timetable that would have been optimistic without a worldwide emergency. In the circumstances it would be beneficial to both sides to have continuity until the present issues have subsided. The risk of rushing is that we ask get a sub optimal deal or no deal that we have to live with for a long time. A pause then resumption within a reasonable timeframe would give both sides chance to negotiate something good.

You know as well as anyone, 98% of the work has been done for months. The issue now is not time pressure from the CV19 effect, it's pure politics. Even the refusal to write legal texts of those areas agreed is done now. This agreement was always going to be a provisional application, CETA and Japan are still in that state of play not ratified yet.

The politics on these sticking points wont change in 6 months, who's to say in 6 months we wont be completely shut off due to an even worse situation with the virus? The EU never ever do it any other way than up against a hard deadline. There is nothing different here.

[Crackie]

IforB said:

This is a complete disaster. As predicted.

Disaster, how so? We left the EU months ago

IforB said:

It is what it is. An utter shambles of epic proportions.

Agreed.........May and Robbins were 5hite.......long gone now though.

IforB said:

Us "die hard remainers" washed our hands of it a long time ago.

Clearly 'washed our hands of it a long time ago' is IforB speak for launch your teddies out of the pram on a daily basis.

IforB said:

Whatever happens and whatever pathetic argument is made on here in a vain attempt to pretend this isn't awful. Just know. We were right and always will be.

No matter how much DM, fiscal transfer, centralised taxation and subsequent Federalist numbnuttery is inflicted upon the remaining 27 you'll still think you're right. Completely and utterly deluded.

Edited by Crackie on Monday 21st December 22:03

[anonymous-user]

DeepEnd said:

Is calling people “thick” not an insult? You’ve done it twice today.

Trump a good outcome? For who? The Proud Boys?

I suggest you read what I wrote again. If you think after doing that I called you thick, maybe you should take some lessons in comprehension.

As I said, Trump is not my issue, but last time I was in the USA or talking to my friends and acquaintances out there, it didn't seem to be overrun by Proud Boys. Just to clarify, are they like the Michigan Nazis in the Blues Brothers? If so a mate of mine filmed their demise, I could ask him, although I doubt he would have any contact with that type of group, being a retired Hollywood Hippy.

[DeepEnd]

jsf said:

Its not his fault you are too thick to understand what he said, or can't work out for yourself leaving the EU was going to be a difficult process. Or are you not this thick and trying to white knight for those that are?

Looks like an attempt at an insult.

Do you not know you are doing it?

[anonymous-user]

DeepEnd said:

jsf said:

Its not his fault you are too thick to understand what he said, or can't work out for yourself leaving the EU was going to be a difficult process. Or are you not this thick and trying to white knight for those that are?

Looks like an attempt at an insult.

Do you not know you are doing it?

Looks like you are incapable of reading a paragraph and processing that. It's a question.

I'll keep it simpler next time for you.

[mick987]

Tuna said:

IforB said:

No "die hard remainer" sees any of this as a win.

Followed by:

IforB said:

Just know. We were right and always will be.

You can't get through a single post without making a liar of yourself.

Yes but he is a funny guy

[Biggy Stardust]

BlackWidow13 said:

But he didn’t say that because that’s not the message he wanted to convey. He wanted to convey “easiest deal in history” as the headline, and to relegate the obvious, substantial and foreseeable problem to a footnote.

How do you know what someone else might have wanted to convey? Do they tell you or do you make things up?

[sim72]

Closer to a fishing agreement?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/21/b...

[DeepEnd]

Rumours of sizeable shift in UK fishing position.

Down to 35% (from 80%) access rights reduction from EU, with it seems a panel to “determine the value of the economic loss of quota changes” and hence have ability to levy tariffs on goods (which sounds a bit like a LPF for fish).

Also compromised on period to 5 years.

EU sources say may not be enough (Barnier at 25% and already getting flak), but close enough to find middle ground, particularly if the agreed panel is considered by the EU to effectively neuter the actual appetite of the UK to “use” its new quota soveriegnty.

All rumours from PH’s favourite newspaper, so treat accordingly. (Edit story as in link in the above post).

Edited by DeepEnd on Monday 21st December 22:22

[i4got]

DeepEnd said:

Rumours of sizeable shift in UK fishing position.

Down to 35% (from 80%) access rights reduction from EU, with it seems a panel to “determine the value of the economic loss of quota changes” and hence have ability to levy tariffs on goods (which sounds a bit like a LPF for fish).

Also compromised on period to 5 years.

EU sources say may not be enough (Barnier at 25% and already getting flak), but close enough to find middle ground, particularly if the agreed panel is considered by the EU to effectively neuter the actual appetite of the UK to “use” its new quota soveriegnty.

All rumours from PH’s favourite newspaper, so treat accordingly.

Did you read the post above yours?

[DeepEnd]

sim72 said:

Closer to a fishing agreement?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/21/b...

Yes looks like it - what do you make of the “panel to decide if quota change has economic impact and hence levy tariffs?”

In theory sounds like - change quota, sure, but if it costs either side (i.e. French fishermen), the impacted side can levy tariffs on goods. Can’t see the ERG liking that, but technically “we have taken control”.

[crankedup]

IforB said:

crankedup said:

IforB said:

crankedup said:

BlackWidow13 said:

Sway said:

Disastrous said:

Sway said:

Disastrous said:

Sway said:

rockin said:

paul.deitch said:

It's Xmas be nice for a change.

You're behind the ball - Xmas has been cancelled.

Problem is, King Boris used a feeble excuse to do it. And UK's "sovereign" neighbours have reacted in an entirely reasonable fashion to what he said because they know that if his lips are moving there's a 20% risk of truthfulness.

"Oven ready?" That'll be a big, fat turkey called Boris.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-shaky-evidence-for-starmers-attack-on-johnson-brexit-promise

Easiest deal in history.

Firstly, not Johnson.

Secondly, fancy quoting the full quote?

As when the full quote is revealed it's proven to be absolutely accurate - or do you not think it's politics that are causing the stumbling blocks to a deal (like 0.002% of the EU economy relating to fishing)?

Honestly, I don’t think it’s relevant. That quote, and most of the government narrative is carefully designed to leave key messaging as the takeaway, with little bits of deniability tacked on at the same time.

It’s plainly obvious that the narrative being spun was that obtaining a great deal would be really easy. I agree no one person said it specifically but I don’t think anyone can argue that there wasn’t a concerted effort to deliver that impression.

Ah OK. So the actual message isn't important, merely the one you've personally taken?

Amusing how it seems it's only remain supporters who only took away from it the snippet and not the full sentence.

Somehow, I reckon that had we had a deal tied up with a bow around it in June, Leavers would have been crowing “See! We told you so! Easiest deal in history!”

It’s only because you’re staring down the barrel of a continental-sized ass-fking with fewer than five working days to spare that you’re windmilling your arms trying to point at whatever excuses you can find.

That’s “amusing”.

You might as well face up to it: Brexit hasn’t worked. It’s going to be a wreckage and within a generation the UK will vote to rejoin a European superstate, complete with foregoing its sovereignty, its currency and its independent armed forces. And that will all be directly attributable to Leavers and Brexit. Well done.

‘Brexit hasn’t worked’ you might as well face up to it, utter nonsense. We are now an independent Nation, a Sovereign Nation. We now need to secure our trading relationship with our EU friends as much for all our benefits as we continue seeking and agreeing new trade deals. We all live in an evolving World, nothing stays the same especially politics.

Jesus. Have you started on the Christmas "cheer" early?

Please stop with the "Sovereign nation" thing We are now. We were when were members of the EU and we were before that.

It's the stupidest thing anyone can say about Brexit other than "this will be easy we should do it."

Your correct, it’s now that we, the U.K. have fully regained our Sovereign Nation status.

Surprised you didn’t get upset with the remainder of my post.

Edited by crankedup on Monday 21st December 16:36

It would be like getting upset with a puppy who messed on the carpet.

You just can't help it. No point in getting upset, one day you will grow out of it.

Like I told you, we are once again a Sovereign Nation, read up what that means and learn something maybe. It’s good advise and will help you not to look like a chump in the future.

[Fittster]

jsf said:

Fittster said:

jsf said:

Quite impressive how they are managing the Kent lorries, last night 400 stuck, right now 160, tonight they are implementing the Brexit contingency on the M20 that will keep flows on M20 going for all other traffic etc. What used to take 4 weeks will now take 4 hours due to the changes in the barrier designs on the M20.

source for those numbers?

The Department of transport is currently advising haulage firms to avoid Kent, which seems odd for a queue of 160.

https://twitter.com/transportgovuk/status/13410576...

The press conference just taken place with Boris and the transport minister.

Chaos at the Port of Dover has left more than 900 trucks parked on the M20 (left) and lorry parks are filling (right, Ashford International Truckstop).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

[crankedup]

Fittster said:

jsf said:

Fittster said:

jsf said:

Quite impressive how they are managing the Kent lorries, last night 400 stuck, right now 160, tonight they are implementing the Brexit contingency on the M20 that will keep flows on M20 going for all other traffic etc. What used to take 4 weeks will now take 4 hours due to the changes in the barrier designs on the M20.

source for those numbers?

The Department of transport is currently advising haulage firms to avoid Kent, which seems odd for a queue of 160.

https://twitter.com/transportgovuk/status/13410576...

The press conference just taken place with Boris and the transport minister.

Chaos at the Port of Dover has left more than 900 trucks parked on the M20 (left) and lorry parks are filling (right, Ashford International Truckstop).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

Nightmare for the drivers, about one third of the lorries are empty with the drivers trying to get home for Christmas. How the Authorities are going to be able to ascertain as to wether each and every driver is not infected with covid 19 before being allowed into France will be a challenge to far.

[DeepEnd]

Fittster said:

Chaos at the Port of Dover has left more than 900 trucks parked on the M20 (left) and lorry parks are filling (right, Ashford International Truckstop).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

This is really harsh on the truck drivers - they are after all only keeping so many important supply chains running for the benefit of everyone in the UK, EU and beyond.

It seems a complete overreaction by France.

UK sudden drop in fishing demand from 60 to 35% in one go (having started at 80%). Co-incidence? 35% may not even be the end point.

[crankedup]

DeepEnd said:

Fittster said:

Chaos at the Port of Dover has left more than 900 trucks parked on the M20 (left) and lorry parks are filling (right, Ashford International Truckstop).

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

This is really harsh on the truck drivers - they are after all only keeping so many important supply chains running for the benefit of everyone in the UK, EU and beyond.

It seems a complete overreaction by France.

UK sudden drop in fishing demand from 60 to 35% in one go (having started at 80%). Co-incidence? 35% may not even be the end point.

40 other Countries have banned all incoming from the U.K. The exception is containerised product.
It’s understandable that they are terrified of the new covid 19 mutation entering their Countries from the U.K. Reality is that the new strain is already within the populations, it’s been circulating around Kent for weeks after all.