How do we think EU negotiations will go? (Vol 15)
Discussion
I’m seeing it reported elsewhere (the politico link in the boris thread) that the EU are demanding a mechanism to retaliate with tariffs if the UK alter quota for fish in the future.
In other words to capitalise on expanding our 0.12% GDP fishing sector, we may face tariffs to level up the impact with the EU.
Also article states agreement maybe in the 30-35% zone.
I hope they sort out the truckers soon - aside from anything else they must just want to go home.
In other words to capitalise on expanding our 0.12% GDP fishing sector, we may face tariffs to level up the impact with the EU.
Also article states agreement maybe in the 30-35% zone.
I hope they sort out the truckers soon - aside from anything else they must just want to go home.
DeepEnd said:
I’m seeing it reported elsewhere (the politico link in the boris thread) that the EU are demanding a mechanism to retaliate with tariffs if the UK alter quota for fish in the future.
In other words to capitalise on expanding our 0.12% GDP fishing sector, we may face tariffs to level up the impact with the EU.
Also article states agreement maybe in the 30-35% zone.
I hope they sort out the truckers soon - aside from anything else they must just want to go home.
That is the worst idea - talk about incentivising overfishing in order to avoid retaliatory tariffs elsewhere... In other words to capitalise on expanding our 0.12% GDP fishing sector, we may face tariffs to level up the impact with the EU.
Also article states agreement maybe in the 30-35% zone.
I hope they sort out the truckers soon - aside from anything else they must just want to go home.
It's a variable natural resource - there has never been recompense for changes in permissible landings, so why should there be now?
TriumphStag3.0V8 said:
Perhaps you should not call Brexit supporters losers, and then post things like that. Makes you look a little, well, desperate.
I don't post in NP&E very often, but I'll come at this from the other direction.Maybe those of us who voted remain have had enough of being branded 'Remoaners', 'unpatriotic', 'losers' etc, etc. We're certainly not unpatriotic, we just believe(d) that the UK was in a better place in Europe than outside (especially had we used the influence that we should have had within the EU instead of pissing it up a wall by electing useless MEPs).
If you want to get folks like me on side, stop insulting me, stop throwing around these sort of terms, and sell me the benefits of whatever it is that has been 'Won'. You're certainly not going to win me and others over by insulting us.
Magnum 475 said:
I don't post in NP&E very often, but I'll come at this from the other direction.
Maybe those of us who voted remain have had enough of being branded 'Remoaners', 'unpatriotic', 'losers' etc, etc. We're certainly not unpatriotic, we just believe(d) that the UK was in a better place in Europe than outside (especially had we used the influence that we should have had within the EU instead of pissing it up a wall by electing useless MEPs).
If you want to get folks like me on side, stop insulting me, stop throwing around these sort of terms, and sell me the benefits of whatever it is that has been 'Won'. You're certainly not going to win me and others over by insulting us.
I think you are mistaken that leavers want remainers on side. They just want them to shut the fMaybe those of us who voted remain have had enough of being branded 'Remoaners', 'unpatriotic', 'losers' etc, etc. We're certainly not unpatriotic, we just believe(d) that the UK was in a better place in Europe than outside (especially had we used the influence that we should have had within the EU instead of pissing it up a wall by electing useless MEPs).
If you want to get folks like me on side, stop insulting me, stop throwing around these sort of terms, and sell me the benefits of whatever it is that has been 'Won'. You're certainly not going to win me and others over by insulting us.
k up!
chrispmartha said:
stongle said:
Biggy Stardust said:
Yet again we hear the argument that everyone would have voted remain if only they were as educated, knowledgeable, intelligent & worldly-wise as yourself.
It's getting stale.
I think the reality is, if only they were a narcissistic bigot like IforB.It's getting stale.
Textbook.
(I'm sure you already have) ;-)
Magnum 475 said:
I don't post in NP&E very often, but I'll come at this from the other direction.
Maybe those of us who voted remain have had enough of being branded 'Remoaners', 'unpatriotic', 'losers' etc, etc. We're certainly not unpatriotic, we just believe(d) that the UK was in a better place in Europe than outside (especially had we used the influence that we should have had within the EU instead of pissing it up a wall by electing useless MEPs).
If you want to get folks like me on side, stop insulting me, stop throwing around these sort of terms, and sell me the benefits of whatever it is that has been 'Won'. You're certainly not going to win me and others over by insulting us.
Not all remainers are remoaners.Maybe those of us who voted remain have had enough of being branded 'Remoaners', 'unpatriotic', 'losers' etc, etc. We're certainly not unpatriotic, we just believe(d) that the UK was in a better place in Europe than outside (especially had we used the influence that we should have had within the EU instead of pissing it up a wall by electing useless MEPs).
If you want to get folks like me on side, stop insulting me, stop throwing around these sort of terms, and sell me the benefits of whatever it is that has been 'Won'. You're certainly not going to win me and others over by insulting us.
Sway said:
That is the worst idea - talk about incentivising overfishing in order to avoid retaliatory tariffs elsewhere...
It's a variable natural resource - there has never been recompense for changes in permissible landings, so why should there be now?
I’m surprised it is linked - I had thought taking back quota would be without strings. It is not clear if the strings are from 0-35% changes or only from 35%+ after the 5 year period.It's a variable natural resource - there has never been recompense for changes in permissible landings, so why should there be now?
I’m not also sure the 35% is pukka news - it might be 2+2=5 from the No10 political advisor tweet.
This is only quota of course, not TAC, which I assume will still be scientifically advised upon on a species basis by ICES - something the EU, Norway and UK - amongst others - will still have to agree upon jointly in some way due to the interlinked nature of the ecosystem.
Can we just agree to talk about the deal and leave the name calling on both sides out? I think most would probably agree the thread is better that way.
Edited by DeepEnd on Tuesday 22 December 12:31
FiF said:
chrispmartha said:
stongle said:
Biggy Stardust said:
Yet again we hear the argument that everyone would have voted remain if only they were as educated, knowledgeable, intelligent & worldly-wise as yourself.
It's getting stale.
I think the reality is, if only they were a narcissistic bigot like IforB.It's getting stale.
Textbook.
(I'm sure you already have) ;-)
And you’re telling me to grow up :-)
chrispmartha said:
FiF said:
chrispmartha said:
stongle said:
Biggy Stardust said:
Yet again we hear the argument that everyone would have voted remain if only they were as educated, knowledgeable, intelligent & worldly-wise as yourself.
It's getting stale.
I think the reality is, if only they were a narcissistic bigot like IforB.It's getting stale.
Textbook.
(I'm sure you already have) ;-)
And you’re telling me to grow up :-)
FiF said:
chrispmartha said:
FiF said:
chrispmartha said:
stongle said:
Biggy Stardust said:
Yet again we hear the argument that everyone would have voted remain if only they were as educated, knowledgeable, intelligent & worldly-wise as yourself.
It's getting stale.
I think the reality is, if only they were a narcissistic bigot like IforB.It's getting stale.
Textbook.
(I'm sure you already have) ;-)
And you’re telling me to grow up :-)
arguti said:
Ian Geary said:
On a side note, it seems I am not alone in thinking the excuse to close ports was a unexpected Christmas gift that fell into the lap of the EU team.
Quelle suprise: we have UK shifting position 24 hours later...
What did the UK get for this though I wonder? Ports to be re opened again? Or some concession from the points under negotiation?
Given that there is a clear divergence of opinions and we all interpret events differently, I would be interested in the remainer opinion on French actions - motivated by COVID or Brexit? Quelle suprise: we have UK shifting position 24 hours later...
What did the UK get for this though I wonder? Ports to be re opened again? Or some concession from the points under negotiation?
Where does the Brexit populism and Covid Populism begin and the other end?
Should there have been a tighter action in March to issolate Britain and manage the cases that were in the country and be unpopular or unliked but saved lives?
Rationally if the shoe was on the other foot and France had an outbreak and Britain halted flights/freight would it have been seen as a Brexit action instead of Covid?
From the outside the scientific side of this is saying that Britain should take a step forward to avoid an even worse predicament over the next month, but that would involve making him unpopular. Isnt it easier to blame a Frenchie?
Stay in Bed Instead said:
Well, the UK wanted to stand alone outside Europe and it looks like they have managed it. No vote needed after all.
At least not until the other side of the channel realizes, that all the stuff they flog the UK every year (over 90 billion pounds worth more than the UK sells over there each year) is stuck on their side of the channel, and they can not get it across, Not least because many of their HGV`s are now stuck on the M20, owing to the block the French put on channel crossings. What comes around goes aroundQuite what they will do, when they realize they have shot themselves in the foot, and they are up to their necks with the stuff they usually ship over here, whilst we are up to our necks in their HGV`s, (which may be why they are re thinking the 48 hour ban) is anyone guess?.
FiF said:
Oh do grow up. The Remainer butt hurt is so intense these days they even get wound up about a photo of a sealion and a fiskmås (a sort of seabird) enough to run off to teacher and complain about someone pointing out the amount of sealioning going on. Still have got Lidl selling Sudocrem now for the butt hurt, great success.
Well I thought the picture was okay. I didn't fancy yours much but in the eye of the beholder and all that.Magnum 475 said:
I don't post in NP&E very often, but I'll come at this from the other direction.
Maybe those of us who voted remain have had enough of being branded 'Remoaners', 'unpatriotic', 'losers' etc, etc. We're certainly not unpatriotic, we just believe(d) that the UK was in a better place in Europe than outside (especially had we used the influence that we should have had within the EU instead of pissing it up a wall by electing useless MEPs).
If you want to get folks like me on side, stop insulting me, stop throwing around these sort of terms, and sell me the benefits of whatever it is that has been 'Won'. You're certainly not going to win me and others over by insulting us.
It's difficult, when we've had four years of fighting over Brexit, to discard prejudices when meeting a new face. Both sides got quite angry with the other at various points, and we've had a lot of insults thrown both ways. Both sides bring up old battles to justify continuing the fight. Both sides want to have some validation for their beliefs.Maybe those of us who voted remain have had enough of being branded 'Remoaners', 'unpatriotic', 'losers' etc, etc. We're certainly not unpatriotic, we just believe(d) that the UK was in a better place in Europe than outside (especially had we used the influence that we should have had within the EU instead of pissing it up a wall by electing useless MEPs).
If you want to get folks like me on side, stop insulting me, stop throwing around these sort of terms, and sell me the benefits of whatever it is that has been 'Won'. You're certainly not going to win me and others over by insulting us.
Personally, I don't expect anyone to abandon the beliefs just because a vote went one way or another. The reasons for wanting to be within the EU are no less valid just because someone else has different priorities and beliefs. Attempting to convince the other side that they're wrong is pointless.
We could however, hopefully, agree that given the current situation there are better and worse choices for the UK to take. Not "undoing the Referendum" or "leaving now on no deal" (both attempts to validate beliefs), but choices about what we think a "good deal" looks like, and what we're willing to compromise to get that deal.
Unfortunately, there are some (both sides) who are still trying to brow-beat the other side into submission. Ifor is one, and sadly his attitude is particularly poor. He's not interested in getting anyone on his side, he's just trying to prove he is right (by his own admission, that's not to insult him). After a few months of his contributions to these threads, he gets very short shrift from people who have formed an opinion about his behaviour.
So... don't feel attacked or unwelcome, but understand that there's a lot of history under the bridge that makes all of us somewhat sensitive to particular arguments.
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