Teacher decapitated in Paris by enraged parent.
Discussion
stitched said:
jakesmith said:
Just to be clear I was being sarcastic and I don't think attempting to ban a religion is a good solution
Some of the responses on here are beyond the pale
Personally I'd ban them all.Some of the responses on here are beyond the pale
Islam has a problem. In fact its in the middle of a serious crisis. The problem is that it is a comparatively new religion, and it makes some pretty hefty claims that it represents the last word of God, whose truth was revealed to mohammed. Many of the other religions are older, and as such have undergone elightment which, compared to Islam, makes them comparatively benign. Islam is totally over represented in violent acts compared to all other religions. It is a highly unstable element. There is plenty of empirical evidence available about what happens in countries where thebMuslim majority increases. Islam won't undergo enlightenment in my lifetime. Possibly never. The kinds of incidents we are now seeing will become ever more frequent. We are becoming desensitised as well. 9/11, Madrid, Bali, 7/7, Manchester Arena, Charlie Hebdo, the Bataclan, Lee Rigby, London Bridge, Tunisian Holiday resort, Brussels Airport, Christmas Market truck attack, Copenhagen shootings, it goes on and on. In fact there is a full list here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism_...
Once you cede ground to an entity that is not interested in compromise, its a slippery slope. There is no halfway house, many devout Muslims tolerate living in a western society but would like to see the sharia implemented, ultimately. Many more like a quiet life, but retain an inward looking mindset that results in division and localised mono cultures. Where we will be in 20yrs time is terrifying. You can only hope that some kind of elightment takes place with the generations coming through, but thus far it isn't happening.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism_...
Once you cede ground to an entity that is not interested in compromise, its a slippery slope. There is no halfway house, many devout Muslims tolerate living in a western society but would like to see the sharia implemented, ultimately. Many more like a quiet life, but retain an inward looking mindset that results in division and localised mono cultures. Where we will be in 20yrs time is terrifying. You can only hope that some kind of elightment takes place with the generations coming through, but thus far it isn't happening.
WinkleHoff said:
Islam has a problem. In fact its in the middle of a serious crisis. The problem is that it is a comparatively new religion, and it makes some pretty hefty claims that it represents the last word of God, whose truth was revealed to mohammed. Many of the other religions are older, and as such have undergone elightment which, compared to Islam, makes them comparatively benign. Islam is totally over represented in violent acts compared to all other religions. It is a highly unstable element. There is plenty of empirical evidence available about what happens in countries where thebMuslim majority increases. Islam won't undergo enlightenment in my lifetime. Possibly never. The kinds of incidents we are now seeing will become ever more frequent. We are becoming desensitised as well. 9/11, Madrid, Bali, 7/7, Manchester Arena, Charlie Hebdo, the Bataclan, Lee Rigby, London Bridge, Tunisian Holiday resort, Brussels Airport, Christmas Market truck attack, Copenhagen shootings, it goes on and on. In fact there is a full list here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism_...
Once you cede ground to an entity that is not interested in compromise, its a slippery slope. There is no halfway house, many devout Muslims tolerate living in a western society but would like to see the sharia implemented, ultimately. Many more like a quiet life, but retain an inward looking mindset that results in division and localised mono cultures. Where we will be in 20yrs time is terrifying. You can only hope that some kind of elightment takes place with the generations coming through, but thus far it isn't happening.
This does not match my experience although I am sure there are some for whom the cap fits. It is interesting that you could change a few words and be talking about Christianity, or change a few more and be talking about religion in general. Each to their own I guess, the common factor in the misrepresentation of religions to vulnerable followers is people who wish hegemony over others. We are a rather lovely bunch ain't we? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism_...
Once you cede ground to an entity that is not interested in compromise, its a slippery slope. There is no halfway house, many devout Muslims tolerate living in a western society but would like to see the sharia implemented, ultimately. Many more like a quiet life, but retain an inward looking mindset that results in division and localised mono cultures. Where we will be in 20yrs time is terrifying. You can only hope that some kind of elightment takes place with the generations coming through, but thus far it isn't happening.
fesuvious said:
Experienced just as much terrorism from other religions?
Misrepresentation?
Which religion had a self proclaimed prophet who beheaded, maimed, raped, stole and killed?
Because one did.
Do we really want to get into whataboutery of ancient religous texts? Its an easy, an ultimately unfulfilling, game to play. Like kicking a puppy, easy, but really, no fun for either you, or the puppy. I said this does not match MY experience. I also said I dont doubt there are people as described who do exist. Step away from the puppy brother man, step away Misrepresentation?
Which religion had a self proclaimed prophet who beheaded, maimed, raped, stole and killed?
Because one did.
Edited by fesuvious on Monday 26th October 20:48
biggbn said:
This does not match my experience although I am sure there are some for whom the cap fits. It is interesting that you could change a few words and be talking about Christianity, or change a few more and be talking about religion in general. Each to their own I guess, the common factor in the misrepresentation of religions to vulnerable followers is people who wish hegemony over others. We are a rather lovely bunch ain't we?
Your experience being what, You know a Muslim ?coolg said:
biggbn said:
This does not match my experience although I am sure there are some for whom the cap fits. It is interesting that you could change a few words and be talking about Christianity, or change a few more and be talking about religion in general. Each to their own I guess, the common factor in the misrepresentation of religions to vulnerable followers is people who wish hegemony over others. We are a rather lovely bunch ain't we?
Your experience being what, You know a Muslim ?biggbn said:
WinkleHoff said:
Islam has a problem. In fact its in the middle of a serious crisis. The problem is that it is a comparatively new religion, and it makes some pretty hefty claims that it represents the last word of God, whose truth was revealed to mohammed. Many of the other religions are older, and as such have undergone elightment which, compared to Islam, makes them comparatively benign. Islam is totally over represented in violent acts compared to all other religions. It is a highly unstable element. There is plenty of empirical evidence available about what happens in countries where thebMuslim majority increases. Islam won't undergo enlightenment in my lifetime. Possibly never. The kinds of incidents we are now seeing will become ever more frequent. We are becoming desensitised as well. 9/11, Madrid, Bali, 7/7, Manchester Arena, Charlie Hebdo, the Bataclan, Lee Rigby, London Bridge, Tunisian Holiday resort, Brussels Airport, Christmas Market truck attack, Copenhagen shootings, it goes on and on. In fact there is a full list here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism_...
Once you cede ground to an entity that is not interested in compromise, its a slippery slope. There is no halfway house, many devout Muslims tolerate living in a western society but would like to see the sharia implemented, ultimately. Many more like a quiet life, but retain an inward looking mindset that results in division and localised mono cultures. Where we will be in 20yrs time is terrifying. You can only hope that some kind of elightment takes place with the generations coming through, but thus far it isn't happening.
This does not match my experience although I am sure there are some for whom the cap fits. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism_...
Once you cede ground to an entity that is not interested in compromise, its a slippery slope. There is no halfway house, many devout Muslims tolerate living in a western society but would like to see the sharia implemented, ultimately. Many more like a quiet life, but retain an inward looking mindset that results in division and localised mono cultures. Where we will be in 20yrs time is terrifying. You can only hope that some kind of elightment takes place with the generations coming through, but thus far it isn't happening.
i have said this before.
The most kindest, most gentile person I ever met was a Muslim.
And the ones I am friends with and work range from him to the most ( Are they the most tuned to the moon - Radical [ I do not want to be in the same city in - {duh...no suprise...what religion they subscribe to } ]
When asked about the Charlie Hebdo atrocities - no matter where they sat on the spectrum was ( and I paraphrase ) "I sympathise why they did it"
This is the problem.
A lifetime of reading 1 book
Bowing on a carpet 5 times a day to a sky fairy
Dedicating a day to a sky fairy
Loving the sky fairy more than you can ever love your kids.
With those teachings - it is only natural an unhealthy percentage of the population that are truly devoted - act on those actions to the letter of what their sky fairy God wrote.
That is never ever going to change.
The teachings never change - neither will the outcomes of those teachings.
Oh... and for the record .....Every religion is evil. Every single one.
The most kindest, most gentile person I ever met was a Muslim.
And the ones I am friends with and work range from him to the most ( Are they the most tuned to the moon - Radical [ I do not want to be in the same city in - {duh...no suprise...what religion they subscribe to } ]
When asked about the Charlie Hebdo atrocities - no matter where they sat on the spectrum was ( and I paraphrase ) "I sympathise why they did it"
This is the problem.
A lifetime of reading 1 book
Bowing on a carpet 5 times a day to a sky fairy
Dedicating a day to a sky fairy
Loving the sky fairy more than you can ever love your kids.
With those teachings - it is only natural an unhealthy percentage of the population that are truly devoted - act on those actions to the letter of what their sky fairy God wrote.
That is never ever going to change.
The teachings never change - neither will the outcomes of those teachings.
Oh... and for the record .....Every religion is evil. Every single one.
In my view, the response below would be very easy for some to close down as just naked racism.
Our society allows everyone to have the right to religious views (it was not many centuries ago when one sect of Christianity was busy devising terrible ways to kill other sects)
The actual attacks carried out by Muslim extremists in the west is a tiny, tiny proportion of followers of that religion even in this country, yet alone the world.
The US suffers as much from white right wing extremism, as did NZ recently.
I feel economic isolation and lack of economic opportunity are as much triggers for extremist behaviour rather than being driven wholly by religion.
(I make that point because if religion is removed, you are still left with all the other issues).
However, I do feel for Macron... a bit... though he has forgotten (again) that not everyone on the planet is as awed by his intelligence as himself.
Standing for personal freedoms against violence fits closely the western culture, but it is still incumbent on the west to make the point sensitivity, as well know religion is an emotive topic for many.
Our society allows everyone to have the right to religious views (it was not many centuries ago when one sect of Christianity was busy devising terrible ways to kill other sects)
The actual attacks carried out by Muslim extremists in the west is a tiny, tiny proportion of followers of that religion even in this country, yet alone the world.
The US suffers as much from white right wing extremism, as did NZ recently.
I feel economic isolation and lack of economic opportunity are as much triggers for extremist behaviour rather than being driven wholly by religion.
(I make that point because if religion is removed, you are still left with all the other issues).
However, I do feel for Macron... a bit... though he has forgotten (again) that not everyone on the planet is as awed by his intelligence as himself.
Standing for personal freedoms against violence fits closely the western culture, but it is still incumbent on the west to make the point sensitivity, as well know religion is an emotive topic for many.
WinkleHoff said:
Islam has a problem. In fact its in the middle of a serious crisis. The problem is that it is a comparatively new religion, and it makes some pretty hefty claims that it represents the last word of God, whose truth was revealed to mohammed. Many of the other religions are older, and as such have undergone elightment which, compared to Islam, makes them comparatively benign. Islam is totally over represented in violent acts compared to all other religions. It is a highly unstable element. There is plenty of empirical evidence available about what happens in countries where thebMuslim majority increases. Islam won't undergo enlightenment in my lifetime. Possibly never. The kinds of incidents we are now seeing will become ever more frequent. We are becoming desensitised as well. 9/11, Madrid, Bali, 7/7, Manchester Arena, Charlie Hebdo, the Bataclan, Lee Rigby, London Bridge, Tunisian Holiday resort, Brussels Airport, Christmas Market truck attack, Copenhagen shootings, it goes on and on. In fact there is a full list here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism_...
Once you cede ground to an entity that is not interested in compromise, its a slippery slope. There is no halfway house, many devout Muslims tolerate living in a western society but would like to see the sharia implemented, ultimately. Many more like a quiet life, but retain an inward looking mindset that results in division and localised mono cultures. Where we will be in 20yrs time is terrifying. You can only hope that some kind of elightment takes place with the generations coming through, but thus far it isn't happening.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism_...
Once you cede ground to an entity that is not interested in compromise, its a slippery slope. There is no halfway house, many devout Muslims tolerate living in a western society but would like to see the sharia implemented, ultimately. Many more like a quiet life, but retain an inward looking mindset that results in division and localised mono cultures. Where we will be in 20yrs time is terrifying. You can only hope that some kind of elightment takes place with the generations coming through, but thus far it isn't happening.
Munter said:
Bit depressing for the future of mankind looking at the number of nutters supporting #boycottfrance on twitter.
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23boycottfrance&...
Also why didn't Macron just shrug his shoulders and go "Fair enough. Deny yourselves our excellent products. That's your choice. Just like freedom is our choice. Good luck to you. Have a good day now."
Wow, those Twitter posts are scary.https://twitter.com/search?q=%23boycottfrance&...
Also why didn't Macron just shrug his shoulders and go "Fair enough. Deny yourselves our excellent products. That's your choice. Just like freedom is our choice. Good luck to you. Have a good day now."
Ian Geary said:
In my view, the response below would be very easy for some to close down as just naked racism.
Our society allows everyone to have the right to religious views (it was not many centuries ago when one sect of Christianity was busy devising terrible ways to kill other sects)
The actual attacks carried out by Muslim extremists in the west is a tiny, tiny proportion of followers of that religion even in this country, yet alone the world.
The US suffers as much from white right wing extremism, as did NZ recently.
I feel economic isolation and lack of economic opportunity are as much triggers for extremist behaviour rather than being driven wholly by religion.
(I make that point because if religion is removed, you are still left with all the other issues).
However, I do feel for Macron... a bit... though he has forgotten (again) that not everyone on the planet is as awed by his intelligence as himself.
Standing for personal freedoms against violence fits closely the western culture, but it is still incumbent on the west to make the point sensitivity, as well know religion is an emotive topic for many.
But it is not racist.Our society allows everyone to have the right to religious views (it was not many centuries ago when one sect of Christianity was busy devising terrible ways to kill other sects)
The actual attacks carried out by Muslim extremists in the west is a tiny, tiny proportion of followers of that religion even in this country, yet alone the world.
The US suffers as much from white right wing extremism, as did NZ recently.
I feel economic isolation and lack of economic opportunity are as much triggers for extremist behaviour rather than being driven wholly by religion.
(I make that point because if religion is removed, you are still left with all the other issues).
However, I do feel for Macron... a bit... though he has forgotten (again) that not everyone on the planet is as awed by his intelligence as himself.
Standing for personal freedoms against violence fits closely the western culture, but it is still incumbent on the west to make the point sensitivity, as well know religion is an emotive topic for many.
Many centuries ago... Nobody is interested in what was happening many centuries ago, we are interested in now.
Economic isolation, could this in any way be due to the behaviour of themselves ?
Muslim women in the UK are the least employed group, this is due to the position they have in in muslim society, the mixing with other men and in extreme cases wearing a face covering. The mixing with infidels, they cant mix with us........These religious aspects to their life cause the issues not wider society.
Indians and Chinese tend to quite well in the UK, they have lower unemployment rates and lower poverty rates than the muslim population. Prior to 9/11 the average european probably didn't appreciate the differences between these religions and the racists didn't care as they weren't white.
Black people who suffer from institutional racism just getting out of their own bed, don't go around killing us because they feel their god has instructed them to do so - except the black muslims.
The islamic violence / terrorism we have seen has been seen in most countries of western europe. These would be some right some left leaning countries, some will have a larger bame population than others ,and some will appear to be more racist than others, and yet the only thing that links the perpetrators are their religious belief.
There were well educated people leaving europe to go and join isis, students and doctors, being well educated and not poor is not a barrier from wanting to live a perfect religious life.
Edited by coolg on Tuesday 27th October 08:03
Edited by coolg on Tuesday 27th October 08:05
chemistry said:
Munter said:
Bit depressing for the future of mankind looking at the number of nutters supporting #boycottfrance on twitter.
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23boycottfrance&...
Also why didn't Macron just shrug his shoulders and go "Fair enough. Deny yourselves our excellent products. That's your choice. Just like freedom is our choice. Good luck to you. Have a good day now."
Wow, those Twitter posts are scary.https://twitter.com/search?q=%23boycottfrance&...
Also why didn't Macron just shrug his shoulders and go "Fair enough. Deny yourselves our excellent products. That's your choice. Just like freedom is our choice. Good luck to you. Have a good day now."
coolg said:
Either all the violent individuals are attracted to islam as opposed to other religions because Islam is more violent / has more violent verses
or
The teaching of islam is more violent and therefore its followers who chose to act on the violent parts when they feel instructed by their god ?
In the absence of a better hypothesis, I’d say that one of those two is going to be the major factor.or
The teaching of islam is more violent and therefore its followers who chose to act on the violent parts when they feel instructed by their god ?
jakesmith said:
Yeah you're actually right, better ban it then.
No need for a ban necessarily.Look at how we dealt with drink-driving for an example. Education and a change in social attitudes could be the answer. Government handing out flyers outside mosques, schools teaching how silly the tenets are, people letting Muslims know that if they need help to give up their addiction to Islam that it’s available.
We’d have some beheadings of course, in the short-term, but you can’t make an omelette without removing heads, as they say.
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