Teacher decapitated in Paris by enraged parent.
Discussion
s1962a said:
amgmcqueen said:
coffeebreath said:
It's almost like forced multiculturalism is a failed project of the relentless globalisation of the 20th century, and people would be a lot happier/safer if homogeneity had never been propagandised as a dirty concept.
The EU has destroyed Europe with it's mass immigration / free movement policies.
TheGreatDane said:
Sorry, been busy with work so haven't had time to respond in which time more atrocities have occurred.
Regarding Islam and the western world, does it fit? No.
Can you adapt to live in the western world whilst being a muslim? Yes.
My view on the matter is if you're not willing to accept what you deem "bad" of a country you move to (in this case free speech), you don't have much of an argument to sit there and take what you feel to be "good" (economic prospects, quality of life etc.), you should move on to somewhere that fits your ideals.
Regarding my "lit a fuse" comment, its in the context of the situation of France with the previous CH attacks and tensions amongst muslims and others currently occurring there. The guy lost his life for showing a picture. How ridiculous is that sentence.
A quote from the quran: "whoever takes a life—unless as a punishment for murder or mischief in the land—it will be as if they killed all of humanity; and whoever saves a life, it will be as if they saved all of humanity"
Now may I highlight that islam says you must respect the laws of the land you are in, so those killing people in the name of islam such as the teacher who sadly perished, that doesn't fly. He was following the laws of the land, in this case France and wasnt causing mischief.
I can almost guarantee there's a preacher or similar encouraging this with the USP of you will die a martyr and go to heaven, to which I say please see the quote above and actually understand it to which the whole going to heaven becomes null and void.
I'm just fed up tbh, whether it be an anders brevik, a muslim, a white supremacist in the US there is so much hate perpetuated in the world, I now struggle to see the good in it any more.
Thanks for this. Regarding Islam and the western world, does it fit? No.
Can you adapt to live in the western world whilst being a muslim? Yes.
My view on the matter is if you're not willing to accept what you deem "bad" of a country you move to (in this case free speech), you don't have much of an argument to sit there and take what you feel to be "good" (economic prospects, quality of life etc.), you should move on to somewhere that fits your ideals.
Regarding my "lit a fuse" comment, its in the context of the situation of France with the previous CH attacks and tensions amongst muslims and others currently occurring there. The guy lost his life for showing a picture. How ridiculous is that sentence.
A quote from the quran: "whoever takes a life—unless as a punishment for murder or mischief in the land—it will be as if they killed all of humanity; and whoever saves a life, it will be as if they saved all of humanity"
Now may I highlight that islam says you must respect the laws of the land you are in, so those killing people in the name of islam such as the teacher who sadly perished, that doesn't fly. He was following the laws of the land, in this case France and wasnt causing mischief.
I can almost guarantee there's a preacher or similar encouraging this with the USP of you will die a martyr and go to heaven, to which I say please see the quote above and actually understand it to which the whole going to heaven becomes null and void.
I'm just fed up tbh, whether it be an anders brevik, a muslim, a white supremacist in the US there is so much hate perpetuated in the world, I now struggle to see the good in it any more.
Kent Border Kenny said:
markcoznottz said:
It would take some digging out, but the survey amongst U.K. Muslims re sympathies for suicide bombings was done by I think the ons or similar.
This one?Highlights include;
38% blame Western policy for attacks by ISIS
28% have sympathy with British Muslims leaving the UK to fight for ISIS
24% agree with the use of violence to defend their religion
22% agree with the use of the violence against “injustice” by the police
18% agree with the use of violence against those who mock Mohammed
11% agreed that those who publish pictures of Mohammed should be attacked.
danllama said:
It pains me to say it but the only solution I can see to the problem of Islam in Europe is to ban it and extinguish it from Europe. Whether or not that is achievable at this point is up for debate. The religion is simply poison and incompatible. A poor 70 year old woman decapitated...what I would do to get the s
t bag alone in a room.
Slovakia have the right idea. Good on them. The rest of us are completely fked. It doesn't shock me any more at all, it's expected even. We allowed this to happen unchallenged.
The UK tried for quite some time (as in decades/ hundreds of years) to eradicate Catholicism in a time when the world was a lot less mobile and connected. It clearly worked well.t bag alone in a room.Slovakia have the right idea. Good on them. The rest of us are completely f
ked. It doesn't shock me any more at all, it's expected even. We allowed this to happen unchallenged.mcdjl said:
danllama said:
It pains me to say it but the only solution I can see to the problem of Islam in Europe is to ban it and extinguish it from Europe. Whether or not that is achievable at this point is up for debate. The religion is simply poison and incompatible. A poor 70 year old woman decapitated...what I would do to get the st bag alone in a room.
Slovakia have the right idea. Good on them. The rest of us are completely fked. It doesn't shock me any more at all, it's expected even. We allowed this to happen unchallenged.
The UK tried for quite some time (as in decades/ hundreds of years) to eradicate Catholicism in a time when the world was a lot less mobile and connected. It clearly worked well.t bag alone in a room.Slovakia have the right idea. Good on them. The rest of us are completely f
ked. It doesn't shock me any more at all, it's expected even. We allowed this to happen unchallenged.JagLover said:
It is estimated that the percentage of the population that was Catholic on mainland UK had fallen to around 1% by 1800. It rose again due to large scale immigration from Ireland.
So from around an arguable 100% in about 1550 to 1800. Minus 5 years for Mary trying to reverse it. The concept failed then, it's unlikely to do better now.mcdjl said:
So from around an arguable 100% in about 1550 to 1800. Minus 5 years for Mary trying to reverse it. The concept failed then, it's unlikely to do better now.
I don't really think going from near 100% of the population to 1% is an example of failure of the policy. There will always be some holdouts after any change after all. Whether it has any relevance to today is another matter entirely of course.
What we can learn from the history is that religious differences are the most significant likely factor to create schisms in society and are very long lasting. This is true of protestant and catholic, orthodox and catholic and the centuries long divide between the Islamic world and the Christian. Just because we think religion isn't relevant anymore doesn't mean the rest of the world agrees.
JagLover said:
mcdjl said:
So from around an arguable 100% in about 1550 to 1800. Minus 5 years for Mary trying to reverse it. The concept failed then, it's unlikely to do better now.
I don't really think going from near 100% of the population to 1% is an example of failure of the policy. There will always be some holdouts after any change after all. Whether it has any relevance to today is another matter entirely of course.
What we can learn from the history is that religious differences are the most significant likely factor to create schisms in society and are very long lasting. This is true of protestant and catholic, orthodox and catholic and the centuries long divide between the Islamic world and the Christian. Just because we think religion isn't relevant anymore doesn't mean the rest of the world agrees.
s1962a said:
China are trying to reduce the influence of Islam by their 're-education camps'. Other than resorting to extreme measures like that, you cannot just eradicate a belief system so easily. In terms of islamist terrorism, it would be far more effective to try and tackle islamist extremism, than to try and change the whole muslim population.
It will take education, the same way that we stopped people thinking that drink-driving was acceptable.Remember, the core beliefs are wrong; there was no flying horse, there are no virgins waiting for anyone, there is nothing unclean about bacon in an age of fridges and supermarkets. Teach children that there is real value in a shared cultural history, but point out that the supernatural pieces are just silly.
Kent Border Kenny said:
s1962a said:
China are trying to reduce the influence of Islam by their 're-education camps'. Other than resorting to extreme measures like that, you cannot just eradicate a belief system so easily. In terms of islamist terrorism, it would be far more effective to try and tackle islamist extremism, than to try and change the whole muslim population.
It will take education, the same way that we stopped people thinking that drink-driving was acceptable.Remember, the core beliefs are wrong; there was no flying horse, there are no virgins waiting for anyone, there is nothing unclean about bacon in an age of fridges and supermarkets. Teach children that there is real value in a shared cultural history, but point out that the supernatural pieces are just silly.
There was a tweet saying "would you feel happy if your god was shown in these cartoons". That person and anybody thinking like it needs to feel that for the rest of the world the answer is "yes. that's fine. You go right ahead and do that. Do you need a pen? Paper?", and that they are on their own in their belief it's wrong, that they have no support at all from anybody for their point of view.
Munter said:
That re-education has to happen to all generations. Which is why I'd flood the world with the cartoons, and the explanation of why some think are offensive, why they can be shown (that offence should be expected as part of life and moved on from), and why they are being shown, for a set period. We don't need to take the people to a place to do that, we just do it where we all are.
There was a tweet saying "would you feel happy if your god was shown in these cartoons". That person and anybody thinking like it needs to feel that for the rest of the world the answer is "yes. that's fine. You go right ahead and do that. Do you need a pen? Paper?", and that they are on their own in their belief it's wrong, that they have no support at all from anybody for their point of view.
You’re right. As we’ve seen on here even someone who thinks he’s a moderate is willing to dissemble and divert.There was a tweet saying "would you feel happy if your god was shown in these cartoons". That person and anybody thinking like it needs to feel that for the rest of the world the answer is "yes. that's fine. You go right ahead and do that. Do you need a pen? Paper?", and that they are on their own in their belief it's wrong, that they have no support at all from anybody for their point of view.
There’s a long way to go.
s1962a said:
JagLover said:
mcdjl said:
So from around an arguable 100% in about 1550 to 1800. Minus 5 years for Mary trying to reverse it. The concept failed then, it's unlikely to do better now.
I don't really think going from near 100% of the population to 1% is an example of failure of the policy. There will always be some holdouts after any change after all. Whether it has any relevance to today is another matter entirely of course.
What we can learn from the history is that religious differences are the most significant likely factor to create schisms in society and are very long lasting. This is true of protestant and catholic, orthodox and catholic and the centuries long divide between the Islamic world and the Christian. Just because we think religion isn't relevant anymore doesn't mean the rest of the world agrees.
Kent Border Kenny said:
s1962a said:
China are trying to reduce the influence of Islam by their 're-education camps'. Other than resorting to extreme measures like that, you cannot just eradicate a belief system so easily. In terms of islamist terrorism, it would be far more effective to try and tackle islamist extremism, than to try and change the whole muslim population.
It will take education, the same way that we stopped people thinking that drink-driving was acceptable.Remember, the core beliefs are wrong; there was no flying horse, there are no virgins waiting for anyone, there is nothing unclean about bacon in an age of fridges and supermarkets. Teach children that there is real value in a shared cultural history, but point out that the supernatural pieces are just silly.
Kent Border Kenny said:
Munter said:
That re-education has to happen to all generations. Which is why I'd flood the world with the cartoons, and the explanation of why some think are offensive, why they can be shown (that offence should be expected as part of life and moved on from), and why they are being shown, for a set period. We don't need to take the people to a place to do that, we just do it where we all are.
There was a tweet saying "would you feel happy if your god was shown in these cartoons". That person and anybody thinking like it needs to feel that for the rest of the world the answer is "yes. that's fine. You go right ahead and do that. Do you need a pen? Paper?", and that they are on their own in their belief it's wrong, that they have no support at all from anybody for their point of view.
You’re right. As we’ve seen on here even someone who thinks he’s a moderate is willing to dissemble and divert.There was a tweet saying "would you feel happy if your god was shown in these cartoons". That person and anybody thinking like it needs to feel that for the rest of the world the answer is "yes. that's fine. You go right ahead and do that. Do you need a pen? Paper?", and that they are on their own in their belief it's wrong, that they have no support at all from anybody for their point of view.
There’s a long way to go.
Considering you think that a muslim man who might grow a beard or a lady who wears hijab is on the extremist end, then it seems like education needs to work both ways too.
s1962a said:
mcdjl said:
s1962a said:
You think sterilising muslim women would be most successful?? Is that what you meant or did i misread that.
Its difficult to tell how many of the extreme solutions being proposed are being one so ironically.In case you are, no i don't.
I don't think that trying to eradicate any religion will work, by any means and i don't think its a good idea to try.
Besides even if successful people will find something else to 'worship', eg Man U, Sussex cricket team, some NFL team etc. People like to belong to something and will defend it way beyond logic.
mcdjl said:
s1962a said:
mcdjl said:
s1962a said:
You think sterilising muslim women would be most successful?? Is that what you meant or did i misread that.
Its difficult to tell how many of the extreme solutions being proposed are being one so ironically.In case you are, no i don't.
I don't think that trying to eradicate any religion will work, by any means and i don't think its a good idea to try.
Besides even if successful people will find something else to 'worship', eg Man U, Sussex cricket team, some NFL team etc. People like to belong to something and will defend it way beyond logic.
I agree with you though, a lot of people feel the need to 'belong' to one group or another.
danllama said:
So you think its better to live with the cancer than to simply cut it out? The cancer eventually kills you.
A very good point.You would want the surgeon to cut out all of the tumours, and not ignore some that look benign. If it looks likes cancer and the possibility of it at some point turning malignant exists, which it does, you would want the surgeon to remove it anyway, just to be safe.
Another analogy is that if religion was run by the Health & Safety industry, particularly construction, islam and anything to do with it would not be allowed on 'site' having long since being banned. The other religions would all be there though with some working under tighter controls than others, but none the less, still 'on site'.
And for any naive appeasers still out there, reading this (from 2010) is always sobering and hopefully informative.
http://shoebat.com/2011/07/02/what-to-expect-the-e...
an extract from the link above said:
As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:
United States — Muslim 0.6%
Australia — Muslim 1.5%
Canada — Muslim 1.9%
China — Muslim 1.8%
Italy — Muslim 1.5%
Norway — Muslim 1.8%
At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.
This is happening in:
Denmark — Muslim 2%
Germany — Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom — Muslim 2.7%
Spain — Muslim 4%
Thailand — Muslim 4.6%
From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:
France — Muslim 8%
Philippines — 5%
Sweden — Muslim 5%
Switzerland — Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago — Muslim 5.8%
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:
Guyana — Muslim 10%
India — Muslim 13.4%
Israel — Muslim 16%
Kenya — Muslim 10%
Russia — Muslim 15%
After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:
Ethiopia — Muslim 32.8%
At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:
Bosnia — Muslim 40%
Chad — Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon — Muslim 59.7%
From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:
Albania — Muslim 70%
Malaysia — Muslim 60.4%
Qatar — Muslim 77.5%
Sudan — Muslim 70%
After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some state-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:
Bangladesh — Muslim 83%
Egypt — Muslim 90%
Gaza — Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia — Muslim 86.1%
Iran — Muslim 98%
Iraq — Muslim 97%
Jordan — Muslim 92%
Morocco — Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan — Muslim 97%
Palestine — Muslim 99%
Syria — Muslim 90%
Tajikistan — Muslim 90%
Turkey — Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates — Muslim 96%
100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace. Here there’s supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:
Afghanistan — Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia — Muslim 100%
Somalia — Muslim 100%
Yemen — Muslim 100%
Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.
I'd say the West is currently seeing events way ahead of the curve of what is illustrated in the article and quoted above. I'd say France is on the cusp of events in the 10-20% range.United States — Muslim 0.6%
Australia — Muslim 1.5%
Canada — Muslim 1.9%
China — Muslim 1.8%
Italy — Muslim 1.5%
Norway — Muslim 1.8%
At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.
This is happening in:
Denmark — Muslim 2%
Germany — Muslim 3.7%
United Kingdom — Muslim 2.7%
Spain — Muslim 4%
Thailand — Muslim 4.6%
From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims. They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves — along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:
France — Muslim 8%
Philippines — 5%
Sweden — Muslim 5%
Switzerland — Muslim 4.3%
The Netherlands — Muslim 5.5%
Trinidad & Tobago — Muslim 5.8%
At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.
When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:
Guyana — Muslim 10%
India — Muslim 13.4%
Israel — Muslim 16%
Kenya — Muslim 10%
Russia — Muslim 15%
After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:
Ethiopia — Muslim 32.8%
At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:
Bosnia — Muslim 40%
Chad — Muslim 53.1%
Lebanon — Muslim 59.7%
From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing (genocide), use of Sharia law as a weapon, and jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:
Albania — Muslim 70%
Malaysia — Muslim 60.4%
Qatar — Muslim 77.5%
Sudan — Muslim 70%
After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some state-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:
Bangladesh — Muslim 83%
Egypt — Muslim 90%
Gaza — Muslim 98.7%
Indonesia — Muslim 86.1%
Iran — Muslim 98%
Iraq — Muslim 97%
Jordan — Muslim 92%
Morocco — Muslim 98.7%
Pakistan — Muslim 97%
Palestine — Muslim 99%
Syria — Muslim 90%
Tajikistan — Muslim 90%
Turkey — Muslim 99.8%
United Arab Emirates — Muslim 96%
100% will usher in the peace of ‘Dar-es-Salaam’ — the Islamic House of Peace. Here there’s supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:
Afghanistan — Muslim 100%
Saudi Arabia — Muslim 100%
Somalia — Muslim 100%
Yemen — Muslim 100%
Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.
The above is a formula that has been repeated, without exception, for the last 1,400 years or so. By all means to those inclined to do so; keep on naively appeasing and making excuses but ignore at your and your grandchildrens peril.
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