Kids getting ripped off at Uni
Discussion
I've got four kids. The most academically gifted one was expected, like her elder brother, to go to a good uni and get a good degree. She, typically, was of a different mind. She took her excellent A-levels and CV to various companies, received a number of offers, and picked the one that encouraged further educational courses which they funded.
At the age of 22 she was jointly in charge of nearly a 5th of England in population terms and was interviewing students from universities, most of whom, she said, seemed to think that 'her' company owed them a job. It was, she said, easy to pick out the quality ones who would start higher than she had, but lower than her position for probably two years and possibly three. She had contacts, and was a resource for her company in a way that the newcomers would have to struggle for. She had loads of role-specific qualifications, but also changed roles as time went on. She was paid to go to Harrogate. Lovely town.
Uni isn't for everyone, not even every intelligent person.
At 30K+ it's an expensive daliance if you can get the job you want by some other means. As she said, to the cost of the courses should be added accommodation and other on-costs, plus the money lost by not working for those three to four years. In her case 18 mnths was at a pretty high rate, plus extras which included shares. Total that lot up and it is obvious that it was an expensive degree.
I would have liked her to go to uni and perhaps enjoy a more academic career, but she had different ideas. She was right.
Degrees are sold as a panacea. Graduates earn n% more than non-graduates. It's a figure that's unarguable, until, that is, you look at the details. I'd be furious if I'd forked out 30K, paid for accommodation at uni town rates, had lost all that money by not having a job, and not to mention losing seniority.
At the age of 22 she was jointly in charge of nearly a 5th of England in population terms and was interviewing students from universities, most of whom, she said, seemed to think that 'her' company owed them a job. It was, she said, easy to pick out the quality ones who would start higher than she had, but lower than her position for probably two years and possibly three. She had contacts, and was a resource for her company in a way that the newcomers would have to struggle for. She had loads of role-specific qualifications, but also changed roles as time went on. She was paid to go to Harrogate. Lovely town.
Uni isn't for everyone, not even every intelligent person.
At 30K+ it's an expensive daliance if you can get the job you want by some other means. As she said, to the cost of the courses should be added accommodation and other on-costs, plus the money lost by not working for those three to four years. In her case 18 mnths was at a pretty high rate, plus extras which included shares. Total that lot up and it is obvious that it was an expensive degree.
I would have liked her to go to uni and perhaps enjoy a more academic career, but she had different ideas. She was right.
Degrees are sold as a panacea. Graduates earn n% more than non-graduates. It's a figure that's unarguable, until, that is, you look at the details. I'd be furious if I'd forked out 30K, paid for accommodation at uni town rates, had lost all that money by not having a job, and not to mention losing seniority.
Evoluzione said:
I mean any job. Just to bide time, make money and get experience. Anything is better than sitting around doing nothing and will reflect on him positively later.
It's terrible what is happening, but many of us are just treading water atm and going nowhere.
Yeah, he would do that - he spent the summer recess working at B&Q and prior to that worked the bar at the local golf club on a weekend but currently he's contracted to a years tenancy away from home on his flat and I am guessing tied in somehow ot complete this year at Uni so the options are a bit limited.It's terrible what is happening, but many of us are just treading water atm and going nowhere.
Pothole said:
Gecko1978 said:
Pothole said:
Gecko1978 said:
My take on this is in 2021 new uni students might look at whats on offer in the UK and then look whats on offer on line from accredited overseas universities via remote learning and think....hmmm 10k plus expenses to the uk or save a load of cash and get a degree.
Ohio state university in the US a top ranked institute works out around $6000 a year in fees next year (depends on course etc). So my advice is shop around now.
How do they find $6000? The Student Loan Company won't front it and a bank loan, should anyone be able to secure one with potential student income for 3 or 4 years, would be at far higher interest than staying in the UK, wouldn't it?Ohio state university in the US a top ranked institute works out around $6000 a year in fees next year (depends on course etc). So my advice is shop around now.
Also lets say you can't borrow the cash so bank of mum an dad. Is it better to get a effectively distance learnt degree for £30k or one for $18k (£14k)
A loan to go to University in the UK can be paid off over decades, depending on what the student earns. Any commercial loan is unlikely to be on the same terms, AFAICS.
10k for a year for no student experience seems pointless
Gecko1978 said:
Your point seems to be it has to be free upfront. But not all students rely on government loans. So for some the choice is 30k or 14k as I noted. In the OPs case this might be an option.
10k for a year for no student experience seems pointless
You're assuming this is going to be the scenario for the whole course, are you?10k for a year for no student experience seems pointless
Pothole said:
Gecko1978 said:
Your point seems to be it has to be free upfront. But not all students rely on government loans. So for some the choice is 30k or 14k as I noted. In the OPs case this might be an option.
10k for a year for no student experience seems pointless
You're assuming this is going to be the scenario for the whole course, are you?10k for a year for no student experience seems pointless
Derek Smith said:
I've got four kids. The most academically gifted one was expected, like her elder brother, to go to a good uni and get a good degree. She, typically, was of a different mind. She took her excellent A-levels and CV to various companies, received a number of offers, and picked the one that encouraged further educational courses which they funded.
At the age of 22 she was jointly in charge of nearly a 5th of England in population terms and was interviewing students from universities, most of whom, she said, seemed to think that 'her' company owed them a job. It was, she said, easy to pick out the quality ones who would start higher than she had, but lower than her position for probably two years and possibly three. She had contacts, and was a resource for her company in a way that the newcomers would have to struggle for. She had loads of role-specific qualifications, but also changed roles as time went on. She was paid to go to Harrogate. Lovely town.
Uni isn't for everyone, not even every intelligent person.
At 30K+ it's an expensive daliance if you can get the job you want by some other means. As she said, to the cost of the courses should be added accommodation and other on-costs, plus the money lost by not working for those three to four years. In her case 18 mnths was at a pretty high rate, plus extras which included shares. Total that lot up and it is obvious that it was an expensive degree.
I would have liked her to go to uni and perhaps enjoy a more academic career, but she had different ideas. She was right.
Degrees are sold as a panacea. Graduates earn n% more than non-graduates. It's a figure that's unarguable, until, that is, you look at the details. I'd be furious if I'd forked out 30K, paid for accommodation at uni town rates, had lost all that money by not having a job, and not to mention losing seniority.
My son is doing a vocational degree - he knows what he wants to do as a job but he needs the degree to do it unfortunately otherwise he would be working now. A miniumum 2 years professional training is then required to obtain his 'letters' once he has his degree. There are other ways but the simplest way for him to qualify is to follow a RICS accredited degree and pay the 40k 'key money'. An apprentice degree route is available and was much preferred however no one is offering that as they are all working from home due to the death virusAt the age of 22 she was jointly in charge of nearly a 5th of England in population terms and was interviewing students from universities, most of whom, she said, seemed to think that 'her' company owed them a job. It was, she said, easy to pick out the quality ones who would start higher than she had, but lower than her position for probably two years and possibly three. She had contacts, and was a resource for her company in a way that the newcomers would have to struggle for. She had loads of role-specific qualifications, but also changed roles as time went on. She was paid to go to Harrogate. Lovely town.
Uni isn't for everyone, not even every intelligent person.
At 30K+ it's an expensive daliance if you can get the job you want by some other means. As she said, to the cost of the courses should be added accommodation and other on-costs, plus the money lost by not working for those three to four years. In her case 18 mnths was at a pretty high rate, plus extras which included shares. Total that lot up and it is obvious that it was an expensive degree.
I would have liked her to go to uni and perhaps enjoy a more academic career, but she had different ideas. She was right.
Degrees are sold as a panacea. Graduates earn n% more than non-graduates. It's a figure that's unarguable, until, that is, you look at the details. I'd be furious if I'd forked out 30K, paid for accommodation at uni town rates, had lost all that money by not having a job, and not to mention losing seniority.
My son is in his last year. Students would complain on his course that it is the most expensive way of getting Adobe Photoshop. When they re-started in September, most of them had their software rights revoked for about a month.. Absolute joke... Doing one lecture a week at most..
His Uni is woeful..
G
His Uni is woeful..
G
C4ME said:
I have a relative who started this year. She debated over deferring for a year (as did all her friends) but decided from what the university were telling her it was worth starting. Students on her course were told that there would be significant face to face learning and socials and clubs when term started etc plus they would be on the science campus most of the day with other students. On the Sunday she moved into halls of residence they were all sent an email to say all the above were cancelled and online lectures only using zoom from within their rooms. Each floor of 10 students in the building were grouped into a social bubble and they have not been allowed to mix with other students. She felt very much like she was deliberately mislead to get her on campus and to get her money and as a result applied for and was granted a year’s deferral.
It does appear universities appetite for funds has led to some less than honest dialog with the students prior to arriving onsite.
...and that, I fear, sums it upIt does appear universities appetite for funds has led to some less than honest dialog with the students prior to arriving onsite.
My son's university were "unable to say" how much contact time he'd get, until the deadline had passed and he was committed to pay the first half of his hall of residence fees. By the time he found out that he'll get one face to face lecture per week it was too late and was contractually obliged.
I just do not believe they were "unable to say"; more likely they "won't tell you until you get here by which time it's too late to change your mind".
The uni's are run as businesses these days. They are desperate for cash because the foreign students have stayed away. They now believe that lying to UK students and then denying them the sort of education they've paid for is a reasonable way to behave. Well, it isn't.
Still, if you're the Vice Chancellor at Southampton you can take comfort in your £424,000 salary. All in it together, eh?
I just do not believe they were "unable to say"; more likely they "won't tell you until you get here by which time it's too late to change your mind".
The uni's are run as businesses these days. They are desperate for cash because the foreign students have stayed away. They now believe that lying to UK students and then denying them the sort of education they've paid for is a reasonable way to behave. Well, it isn't.
Still, if you're the Vice Chancellor at Southampton you can take comfort in your £424,000 salary. All in it together, eh?
It has been no secret for many years now that universities are really just money-making schemes, little more than sausage factory production lines sucking in fools and taking their money.
I was not surprised in the slightest to see that the universities have continued to do everything they can to secure the money and little to discharge their obligations to provide their devalued product. After all, they just need the mugs to keep paying.
I was not surprised in the slightest to see that the universities have continued to do everything they can to secure the money and little to discharge their obligations to provide their devalued product. After all, they just need the mugs to keep paying.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000nrnt/dis...
Interesting part was the discussion around how Unis are tied into commercial agreements with student letting companies whereby they guarantee that they will be full.
Interesting part was the discussion around how Unis are tied into commercial agreements with student letting companies whereby they guarantee that they will be full.
Pothole said:
Gecko1978 said:
Your point seems to be it has to be free upfront. But not all students rely on government loans. So for some the choice is 30k or 14k as I noted. In the OPs case this might be an option.
10k for a year for no student experience seems pointless
You're assuming this is going to be the scenario for the whole course, are you?10k for a year for no student experience seems pointless
My point is that there are alternatives you don't have to pay UK fees.
TurboHatchback said:
Clearly you have quite the chip on your shoulder about those who choose further education.
Nope, I’ve been there and done that, what they want to do is up to them. However, the situation we find ourselves in smacks of generation entitled not getting what they thought they were entitled to, and then.
I feel sorry for the students who’ve committed to the longer courses, and found themselves at the end of their courses, and then been hoofed in the balls / whatever, having already spent a fortune. That’s poor luck.
Lotobear said:
My son is doing a vocational degree - he knows what he wants to do as a job but he needs the degree to do it unfortunately otherwise he would be working now. A miniumum 2 years professional training is then required to obtain his 'letters' once he has his degree. There are other ways but the simplest way for him to qualify is to follow a RICS accredited degree and pay the 40k 'key money'. An apprentice degree route is available and was much preferred however no one is offering that as they are all working from home due to the death virus
That was the same route with my younger daughter, although her degree was paid for by her employer, with the requirement to remain in post for, I think, three years for no penalty. She worked the occasional days during the degree course.2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
C4ME said:
I have a relative who started this year. She debated over deferring for a year (as did all her friends) but decided from what the university were telling her it was worth starting. Students on her course were told that there would be significant face to face learning and socials and clubs when term started etc plus they would be on the science campus most of the day with other students. On the Sunday she moved into halls of residence they were all sent an email to say all the above were cancelled and online lectures only using zoom from within their rooms. Each floor of 10 students in the building were grouped into a social bubble and they have not been allowed to mix with other students. She felt very much like she was deliberately mislead to get her on campus and to get her money and as a result applied for and was granted a year’s deferral.
It does appear universities appetite for funds has led to some less than honest dialog with the students prior to arriving onsite.
...and that, I fear, sums it upIt does appear universities appetite for funds has led to some less than honest dialog with the students prior to arriving onsite.
+1It seems, on the surface at least, that the Universities encouraged students to attend and pay fees/rent when the likelihood of distance learning was above 50% probability - they knew, the gov, the landlords knew, but only the students were left in the dark.
Those with children at uni who are contractually tied into a year ? contract ,
Are any of you going to bring your kids home and accept that years money is dead money but send them back in a year if things are more normal ?
Also i presume they can jack in there course then reapply in a year or two ?
Are any of you going to bring your kids home and accept that years money is dead money but send them back in a year if things are more normal ?
Also i presume they can jack in there course then reapply in a year or two ?
Gecko1978 said:
My take on this is in 2021 new uni students might look at whats on offer in the UK and then look whats on offer on line from accredited overseas universities via remote learning and think....hmmm 10k plus expenses to the uk or save a load of cash and get a degree.
Ohio state university in the US a top ranked institute works out around $6000 a year in fees next year (depends on course etc). So my advice is shop around now.
That's not quite how it works at all.Ohio state university in the US a top ranked institute works out around $6000 a year in fees next year (depends on course etc). So my advice is shop around now.
Pothole said:
Gecko1978 said:
My take on this is in 2021 new uni students might look at whats on offer in the UK and then look whats on offer on line from accredited overseas universities via remote learning and think....hmmm 10k plus expenses to the uk or save a load of cash and get a degree.
Ohio state university in the US a top ranked institute works out around $6000 a year in fees next year (depends on course etc). So my advice is shop around now.
How do they find $6000? The Student Loan Company won't front it and a bank loan, should anyone be able to secure one with potential student income for 3 or 4 years, would be at far higher interest than staying in the UK, wouldn't it?Ohio state university in the US a top ranked institute works out around $6000 a year in fees next year (depends on course etc). So my advice is shop around now.
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