45th President of the United States, Donald Trump (Vol. 10)
Discussion
Taylor James said:
In your opinion, which I can listen to without feeling the need to patronise you or imply you are somehow lacking or inferior in some way for holding that view. I think what's depressing is the number of people who can't hold a civilised discussion.
Actually the depressing thing is that someone can hold the opinion that the sky isn't blue and somehow believe that everyone else should respect that because it's their opinion.Do you support flat-earthers and moon-landing conspiricists and feel their views should be given equal weight as, I don't know, the actual provable facts?
There's your answer as to why Trump supporters get abuse. Deservedly so. IN MY OPINION.
Taylor James said:
Gameface said:
Taylor James said:
I think what's depressing is the number of people who can't hold a civilised discussion.
It tends to be Trump supporters who don't like civilised discussion.twister said:
Taylor James said:
Who gets to decide what's patently absurd? Surely reasonable people would try and persuade you to change your mind using rational argument? What I'm talking about, which I'm sure you know, is a baying mob mentality and behaviour, vicious and uncompromising. That may just about be ok if you're debating with a Klan member (although it's unlikely to persuade) but it certainly isn't when you're talking about places of education or the workplace and you're debating with a fellow student or a colleague.
Not even if the person you're debating with in those locations also happens to be a Klan member, or is happy to admjt their support for the Klan?If someone says they support Trump, they're saying they support a known misogynist, narcissist, and liar (and those are just the first three personality traits that came to mind when thinking about the orange s
tgibbon). For them to say they support such a person, it says as much about *them* as an individual as it does the person they support - either they identify with those traits themselves, or they simply don't care that the person they're supporting exhibits them.So no, it comes as no surprise to me, or any other right minded person who places a premium on people behaving in ways that reflect the sort of society we'd like to live in, a fair, equitable, safe world, that someone who supports someone diametrically opposed to all we stand for, would be subject to a hard time. There have been times in the past when I've shaken my head in disbelief that someone could admit support for other politicians or people of power, but in the main I've at least been able to understand why they did, because although the target of their support wasn't someone I could bring myself to support, I could at least accept that they did have some redeeming features.
Trump. Nope. He is without doubt a total and utter disgrace, not just to the office of Preaident, but to the far higher office of human decency, devoid of any redeeming feature that could possibly allow anyone with a shred of humanity in their body to admit even the slightest hint of appreciation for any part of him as an individual or president. The sooner he departs the White House and starts to fade into insignificance where he belongs, the better.
Moving into more typical situations, which don't involve the KKK, just strong views such as the ones you have espoused quite reasonably, what does the ranting and insulting achieve beyond emitting a lot of air?
Centurion07 said:
Taylor James said:
In your opinion, which I can listen to without feeling the need to patronise you or imply you are somehow lacking or inferior in some way for holding that view. I think what's depressing is the number of people who can't hold a civilised discussion.
Actually the depressing thing is that someone can hold the opinion that the sky isn't blue and somehow believe that everyone else should respect that because it's their opinion.Do you support flat-earthers and moon-landing conspiricists and feel their views should be given equal weight as, I don't know, the actual provable facts?
There's your answer as to why Trump supporters get abuse. Deservedly so. IN MY OPINION.
What do you think the abuse achieves?
Gameface said:
Taylor James said:
Gameface said:
Taylor James said:
I think what's depressing is the number of people who can't hold a civilised discussion.
It tends to be Trump supporters who don't like civilised discussion.Please elucidate.
Taylor James said:
That's a curious position to adopt. Are you suggesting a scientifically proven fact (sky is blue and we know it isn't really blue but let's not get into the science) is comparable to an opinion (Trump is a moron)?
What do you think the abuse achieves?
Trump being a racist, misogynistic, narcissistic moron is as scientifically-provable with facts as the sky is blue.What do you think the abuse achieves?
Hence anyone holding the opinion that he's an ok guy and worth their vote automatically marks themselves out as a moron. That's the most generous description I can give.
At the other end of the scale are the ones that come on this thread and spout "bOtH aS bAd As EaCh OtHeR" crap for the sole purpose of being cocks.
Returning the abuse is cathartic and because trying to change those people's minds is a waste of time. If they're stupid enough to support Trump at this point in proceedings then all hope is lost.
HTH.
Centurion07 said:
Taylor James said:
That's a curious position to adopt. Are you suggesting a scientifically proven fact (sky is blue and we know it isn't really blue but let's not get into the science) is comparable to an opinion (Trump is a moron)?
What do you think the abuse achieves?
Trump being a racist, misogynistic, narcissistic moron is as scientifically-provable with facts as the sky is blue.What do you think the abuse achieves?
Hence anyone holding the opinion that he's an ok guy and worth their vote automatically marks themselves out as a moron. That's the most generous description I can give.
At the other end of the scale are the ones that come on this thread and spout "bOtH aS bAd As EaCh OtHeR" crap for the sole purpose of being cocks.
Returning the abuse is cathartic and because trying to change those people's minds is a waste of time. If they're stupid enough to support Trump at this point in proceedings then all hope is lost.
HTH.
Taylor James said:
I thought I qualified my comments about debating with a Klan member? If not, let me say I can see why someone holding those views might so enrage someone that they became incapable of coherent debate. I'm also saying that, understandable as that might be, it would be unlikely to be persuasaive if you were seeking to change the hooded one's mind. If we're going down a notch, to a Klan supporter, the same logic applies. Insults and ranting will probably guarantee you an argument and if that's what you want, fine, but if you're seeking to change hearts and minds, good luck.
Moving into more typical situations, which don't involve the KKK, just strong views such as the ones you have espoused quite reasonably, what does the ranting and insulting achieve beyond emitting a lot of air?
In the case of Trump supporters, it's borne from the frustration of interacting with people who, despite all that's happened over these last 4 years, still claim to support him. If someone is incapable of seeing the facts about him that are around for all to see, and still treats him as someone worthy of any form of support, then it's somewhat unlikely that they'll take the slightest notice of any sort of coherent, logical, educated, response we can offer by way of trying to explain why we think they're wrong.Moving into more typical situations, which don't involve the KKK, just strong views such as the ones you have espoused quite reasonably, what does the ranting and insulting achieve beyond emitting a lot of air?
I was dismayed when he "won" the vote 4 years ago, but I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, because I genuinely do try to see both sides of an argument if there's the slightest chance that both sides are worthy of being given the time of day. Sadly, from day one of the Trump era presidency, with him trotting out Sean Spicer (remember him?) to deliver verifiable lies about crowd sizes, it's been a steady slippery slope further and further down into the abyss. For all my close and dear friends in the US who've had to suffer through his maladministration and will suffer further if he's given 4 more years to wreak his havoc on the country, I truly hope Biden not only wins, but is able to then quickly rebuild everything that Trump has broken, undermined and corrupted.
Taylor James said:
Centurion07 said:
I hope so.
I'll check.
ETA. yes, I'm happy with my choice.
There's only so much catharsis any of us can take!I'll check.
ETA. yes, I'm happy with my choice.
t?Moose(?) made a pretty good stab at trying to explain his thoughts and more importantly his own mental process and internal reasons for falling on that side of the fence. ‘We’ might not have agreed with him, but he certainly gave it a go and made some reasonable points.
Having a proverbial gun going off like dawn on the Glorious 12th whenever a new poster to this thread arrives and expresses anything but utter hatred for Trump doesn’t add much to the thread.
Reasoned discussion and argument, albeit repetitive and sometimes a waste of time is surely better than everyone standing around, pointing and screaming ‘BURN HIM’??
As we get nearer, I would hope a few more Trump fans poke their heads up and at least try to engage. I think it makes for a better thread personally.....
He is an utter
though! (Trump that is)Slaav said:
Reasoned discussion and argument, albeit repetitive and sometimes a waste of time is surely better than everyone standing around, pointing and screaming ‘BURN HIM’??
Fortunately there's enough of you more reasonable types in here that I can continue to stand around screaming "BURN THEM!!".
Taylor James said:
I've called a Trump win all along. One of the reasons can be seen in behaviour here. People are ridiculed and shamed if they say they like Trump. I wouldn't want to say it in a British University or a media organisation and I doubt the US is much different. I think the secret ballot will show that what the polls are predicting is not in line with how the people think in sufficient states to decide the result.
Another factor is that I don't believe there's any more mud to throw at Trump. If they find some he will shrug and call fake news. Biden is vulnerable in this respect. His self-positioning as an honest man of the people can only go one way.
Actually far from it, look at the number of yard signs for trump. Trump enabled people to say all sorts of things that before were mostly hidden. Another factor is that I don't believe there's any more mud to throw at Trump. If they find some he will shrug and call fake news. Biden is vulnerable in this respect. His self-positioning as an honest man of the people can only go one way.
Edited by Taylor James on Saturday 24th October 13:43
As for trump and honesty, I think trumps driven the bar so low there's nothing more that counts anymore, plus the media won't fall for the same tricks as 2016. They've had 4 years of the same s
t to get wise to trumps tactics.Biden will get the most votes. Whether that translates to winning is another matter, because we've seen how much the GOP and trump have already tried to affect the vote through voter obstruction. 21,000 polling stations closed, disrupt the US postal service to affect postal voting, fake ballot boxes by the GOP...
Thats before we started to see the russian and foreign interference for trump. Voter intimidation, voting systems attacked, social media disinformation...
Centurion07 said:
At the other end of the scale are the ones that come on this thread and spout "bOtH aS bAd As EaCh OtHeR" crap for the sole purpose of being cocks.
Which started as russian disinformation on social media. They knew trump was indefensible so tried to make Biden out to be the same, hence all the two old senile men type stuff. Split the biden vote as they encourage voting for a third party as a 'protest'.You can see the power of these social media by the number of well meaning, but ignorant people that come on here and repeat it, but then the russians have been at it for years and have it well resourced and developed.
Centurion07 said:
Slaav said:
Reasoned discussion and argument, albeit repetitive and sometimes a waste of time is surely better than everyone standing around, pointing and screaming ‘BURN HIM’??
Fortunately there's enough of you more reasonable types in here that I can continue to stand around screaming "BURN THEM!!".
Take the latest "anything leveled against trump could be said of Biden" rubbish that was spouted.
Rick_1138 said:
Polls were in a similar state last time where Hilary 'couldn't lose'. I'll wait till the 4th to see what happens.
The trouble is that I doubt many in the middle grounds will vote for Biden because he’s Joe Biden, it’s because he isn’t Trump. It’s a bit of a risky play by the Democrats as they could have wiped the floor if they had a decent candidate.
I reckon it’ll be a Biden win, but don’t think Trump will get the trouncing he merits.
Byker28i said:
Trouble is - you try to engage with a reasonable discussion, but they won't back it up with any sources, proof.
Take the latest "anything leveled against trump could be said of Biden" rubbish that was spouted.
Which is why I can't be arsed and am just happy to shout "BURN THEM!!!". Take the latest "anything leveled against trump could be said of Biden" rubbish that was spouted.
Byker28i said:
Taylor James said:
I've called a Trump win all along. One of the reasons can be seen in behaviour here. People are ridiculed and shamed if they say they like Trump. I wouldn't want to say it in a British University or a media organisation and I doubt the US is much different. I think the secret ballot will show that what the polls are predicting is not in line with how the people think in sufficient states to decide the result.
Another factor is that I don't believe there's any more mud to throw at Trump. If they find some he will shrug and call fake news. Biden is vulnerable in this respect. His self-positioning as an honest man of the people can only go one way.
Actually far from it, look at the number of yard signs for trump. Trump enabled people to say all sorts of things that before were mostly hidden. Another factor is that I don't believe there's any more mud to throw at Trump. If they find some he will shrug and call fake news. Biden is vulnerable in this respect. His self-positioning as an honest man of the people can only go one way.
Edited by Taylor James on Saturday 24th October 13:43
As for trump and honesty, I think trumps driven the bar so low there's nothing more that counts anymore, plus the media won't fall for the same tricks as 2016. They've had 4 years of the same s
t to get wise to trumps tactics.Biden will get the most votes. Whether that translates to winning is another matter, because we've seen how much the GOP and trump have already tried to affect the vote through voter obstruction. 21,000 polling stations closed, disrupt the US postal service to affect postal voting, fake ballot boxes by the GOP...
Thats before we started to see the russian and foreign interference for trump. Voter intimidation, voting systems attacked, social media disinformation...
Is it possible for Trump to achieve what you would regard as a legitimate win?
If so, what are the criteria that will enable you to say, "fair enough, he won"?
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