Suspected terror attack in Nice

[Kent Border Kenny]

s1962a said:

What you mean by extremist is just groups of Muslims who you disagree with about the right way to honour Allah and Mohammed, to anyone not in your sect the distinctions are meaningless. - What I mean by extremist islamist ideology is the wahabist teachings exported from regimes which use violence and an extreme interpretation of the quran. It's quite clear what extremist Islam is. Wearing a hijab or growing your beard, and not wanting to eat port or drink alcohol is not.

I can respond to the other bits if you want, leaving them out on purpose unless you want a response.

So you view the extremist bits as being more extreme than you. It’s a bit like what people mean by “high earners”, as in it’s anyone that earns more than about 20% more than them.

Growing an “Islamic” beard in the UK, or wearing Afghani traditional dress may not seem extremist to you, but in a society in which “being a Christian” generally means singing some carols at Christmas it really doesn’t suggest being only a moderate follower.

[voyds9]

So if I understand this correctly Muslims on the whole are a peaceful bunch who don't agree with terrorism or recent atrocities

But Islam as a religion/theology of a country believes wholly in the word of god and will follow it to the extent of beatings, honour killings, beheadings, punishment for homosexuality, banning of other religious artefacts and even banning completely people of other faiths.

[SlimJim16v]

markcoznottz said:

Apparently those views and the money to push them are coming from Saudi Arabia.

Yes, apparently they've even gone as far as adding anti-Western footnotes to the Quran. But they have all the oil, so let's ignore everything and carry on doing business with them.

[BrundanBianchi]

It’s the good old ‘religion of peace’ again. Historically, the French are quite good at beheadings. Let’s hope they give the terrorist involved the guillotine.

[AJL308]

Getragdogleg said:

WCZ said:

Islamophobia trending on twitter, really surprised at how this time round there is a lot of sympathy for the killers. maybe the tide is turning to some extent and we should just change the laws in europe to no mockery of the 'prophet' allowed, would make things easier

Change the laws to ban Religion.

You wont "make things easier" with these people, they will simply move on to the next thing to hassle you about until we are all living like them and then that wont be right.

Fight back. tell them to stuff it. you do you, i will do me, anything else is interference.

Too much of a large step and too many people will rail against it as being "intolerant". Three things which I think could be done immediately though; 1) Prohibit any religious teaching or enrolling (for want of a better word) of anyone who is under, say 16, into any religion. If a religion is so strong and worthwhile then people will happily join it when they are of such an age to make their own decision. 2) Remove any tax advantage from religions. There is no reason they should be subsidised by other people or the state. 3) Religion should not be a Protected Characteristic under Human Rights Law. Being gay, black or disabled is not a choice. Religion is.

[SlimJim16v]

4) a ban on non-Christian religious schools.

[A Winner Is You]

AJL308 said:

Getragdogleg said:

WCZ said:

Islamophobia trending on twitter, really surprised at how this time round there is a lot of sympathy for the killers. maybe the tide is turning to some extent and we should just change the laws in europe to no mockery of the 'prophet' allowed, would make things easier

Change the laws to ban Religion.

You wont "make things easier" with these people, they will simply move on to the next thing to hassle you about until we are all living like them and then that wont be right.

Fight back. tell them to stuff it. you do you, i will do me, anything else is interference.

Too much of a large step and too many people will rail against it as being "intolerant". Three things which I think could be done immediately though; 1) Prohibit any religious teaching or enrolling (for want of a better word) of anyone who is under, say 16, into any religion. If a religion is so strong and worthwhile then people will happily join it when they are of such an age to make their own decision. 2) Remove any tax advantage from religions. There is no reason they should be subsidised by other people or the state. 3) Religion should not be a Protected Characteristic under Human Rights Law. Being gay, black or disabled is not a choice. Religion is.

You don't defeat zealots by becoming a zealot.

[rscott]

Reports now suggesting the Avignon attacker was a Generation Identity supporter -

https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/live/2020/10/29/en-...

"Hours before the Nice attack, a man with a handgun was shot dead by police in Avignon after threatening passers-by. The man had previously threatened a Maghrebian trader, telling him that he belonged to "Generation Identity". "

[Oakey]

Wtf is generation identity

[Kent Border Kenny]

rscott said:

Reports now suggesting the Avignon attacker was a Generation Identity supporter -

https://www.lemonde.fr/societe/live/2020/10/29/en-...

"Hours before the Nice attack, a man with a handgun was shot dead by police in Avignon after threatening passers-by. The man had previously threatened a Maghrebian trader, telling him that he belonged to "Generation Identity". "

The times is reporting that he was a recent Muslim immigrant to France who made his way to Nice from Lampedusa. The fact that he’s not white and was praising allah as he was sedated by medical staff would lead me to suspect that he’s probably not a white supremacist.

I’ll withhold judgement until the facts are clear though.

[Oakey]

The Avignon thing was different to what happened in Nice

[Bodo]

Tresco said:

It's time European Governments stood together on this and sent a clear message to Muslims that their religion is incompatible with Western values.

We cannot continue to host large populations intent on creating separate societies wherever they live.

It's certainly not a problem of the French alone, but of a bigger circle with similar stance to freedom of speech and a more relaxed approach to religion.

I also agree that Western Europe has to work to avoid separate societies; however, I don't believe that the majority of Muslims living here or anywhere else share the amount of hate that radicals of all sides do.
It's not a matter of faith, but of personal strength and stable social cohesion. Somebody who is ignored or hated by anyone around, anywhere on this planet will always be a , no matter what faith they believe in.

[anonymous-user]

Kent Border Kenny said:

The times is reporting that he was a recent Muslim immigrant to France who made his way to Nice from Lampedusa. The fact that he’s not white and was praising allah as he was sedated by medical staff would lead me to suspect that he’s probably not a white supremacist.

I’ll withhold judgement until the facts are clear though.

https://apnews.com/article/religion-nice-pope-francis-france-b0e6d2e67604d5f3f26abc488e9dda6a

AP News said:

7:20 p.m.

A man shot and killed by police in the French city of Avignon on Thursday claimed allegiance to an anti-immigrant group and had assaulted a merchant of North African descent, authorities said.

If AP are reporting this it’s likely true.

[Kent Border Kenny]

Sam.M said:

If AP are reporting this it’s likely true.

You’re right, sorry, I missed that it was referring to Avignon, not Nice.

[markcoznottz]

Bodo said:

Tresco said:

It's time European Governments stood together on this and sent a clear message to Muslims that their religion is incompatible with Western values.

We cannot continue to host large populations intent on creating separate societies wherever they live.

It's certainly not a problem of the French alone, but of a bigger circle with similar stance to freedom of speech and a more relaxed approach to religion.

I also agree that Western Europe has to work to avoid separate societies; however, I don't believe that the majority of Muslims living here or anywhere else share the amount of hate that radicals of all sides do.
It's not a matter of faith, but of personal strength and stable social cohesion. Somebody who is ignored or hated by anyone around, anywhere on this planet will always be a , no matter what faith they believe in.

We have our own problems in Bradford though, a lot of which isn’t reported by the msm.

[Leemcd]

s1962a said:

let me take a guess, the rising numbers of muslims in western european countries?

Ding ding ding. It doesn’t seem that the western way of life suits Muslims, so why move to these countries?

[s1962a]

Leemcd said:

s1962a said:

let me take a guess, the rising numbers of muslims in western european countries?

Ding ding ding. It doesn’t seem that the western way of life suits Muslims, so why move to these countries?

You, sir are a darn sight more honest than some that just skirt around the issue and don’t say what they really mean.

[s1962a]

Kent Border Kenny said:

s1962a said:

What you mean by extremist is just groups of Muslims who you disagree with about the right way to honour Allah and Mohammed, to anyone not in your sect the distinctions are meaningless. - What I mean by extremist islamist ideology is the wahabist teachings exported from regimes which use violence and an extreme interpretation of the quran. It's quite clear what extremist Islam is. Wearing a hijab or growing your beard, and not wanting to eat port or drink alcohol is not.

I can respond to the other bits if you want, leaving them out on purpose unless you want a response.

So you view the extremist bits as being more extreme than you. It’s a bit like what people mean by “high earners”, as in it’s anyone that earns more than about 20% more than them.

Growing an “Islamic” beard in the UK, or wearing Afghani traditional dress may not seem extremist to you, but in a society in which “being a Christian” generally means singing some carols at Christmas it really doesn’t suggest being only a moderate follower.

No, i was referring to wahabist islamist extremism - do you know what that is? It's what ISIS and Al Qaeada and their ilk follow.

Never seen anyone in the UK in afghani dress, but a bloke having a beard, or seeing women in hijab, or a man wearing a jewish skullcap is a pretty normal sight in London. Don't tell me you're afraid of seeing people in dress that identifies their religion?

[Kent Border Kenny]

s1962a said:

No, i was referring to wahabist islamist extremism - do you know what that is? It's what ISIS and Al Qaeada and their ilk follow.

Never seen anyone in the UK in afghani dress, but a bloke having a beard, or seeing women in hijab, or a man wearing a jewish skullcap is a pretty normal sight in London. Don't tell me you're afraid of seeing people in dress that identifies their religion?

You’re trolling now, you must be. See no evil, hear no evil, play the victim, yet gloat at the idea of people leaving who are concerned, and glory in the increasing number of Muslims in the country.

You’re the problem mate. You are exactly what good people are concerned about.

[F1GTRUeno]

SlimJim16v said:

4) a ban on non-Christian religious schools.

No, Christian schools can fk off n'all.