Suspected terror attack in Nice

[Taylor James]

youngsyr said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Absolutely horrific and unjustifiable attack and two wrongs certainly don't make a right, but it seems to me that a lot of people feel that these attacks come out of nowhere?

Let's not forget that our hands aren't entirely clean either - the UK was part of the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq not so long ago on highly dubious grounds. We also backed the US when they threw the right to a fair trial out the window, secretly extradited dozens of individuals and tortured more in those countries.

Again, that doesn't justify these attacks, but the attackers aren't the only ones we should be looking to blame and we should all be aware of the consequences of our foreign policy actions.

Sounds a lot like justification to me.

Not a justification at all, but in trying to find a solution, let's look at both sides of the story - something that no-one else has yet mentioned in this thread.

The solution on the Muslim side seems to be clear enough. Thou shalt not publish pictures of the prophet anywhere on the planet. We can go back 800 years or so and talk about Saladin and Richard the Lionheart but what's the solution to the issue of the pictures?

[s1962a]

AJL308 said:

Tyre Smoke said:

youngsyr said:

Not a justification at all, but in trying to find a solution, let's look at both sides of the story - something that no-one else has yet mentioned in this thread.

Well, you really won't get that from the bigots like AJL308 on this thread. Because all Muslims are a medieval bunch apparently. Until he wants a curry. Or a taxi at 3am. Or something from the 24hr garage late at night. No, they're medieval. Not hard working people with no extremist religious views at all. Nope, they're clearly all murderous ragheads.

And so it begins - the cry of bigot or racist to try to dismiss the Elephant in the room. I never referred to all Muslims, I referred to the religion specifically. Argue it all you want but it is a medieval religion with outdated values. The fact that on the other thread people are saying that even the "moderate" Muslims they work with express some sort of sympathy for members of their religion who behead innocents tells you that the religion is not a nice one.

No muslim I have ever talked to has expressed sympathy for beheading people. I call bullst that anyone else had that expressed to them on PH.

[JagLover]

youngsyr said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Absolutely horrific and unjustifiable attack and two wrongs certainly don't make a right, but it seems to me that a lot of people feel that these attacks come out of nowhere?

Let's not forget that our hands aren't entirely clean either - the UK was part of the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq not so long ago on highly dubious grounds. We also backed the US when they threw the right to a fair trial out the window, secretly extradited dozens of individuals and tortured more in those countries.

Again, that doesn't justify these attacks, but the attackers aren't the only ones we should be looking to blame and we should all be aware of the consequences of our foreign policy actions.

Sounds a lot like justification to me.

Not a justification at all, but in trying to find a solution, let's look at both sides of the story - something that no-one else has yet mentioned in this thread.

Two sides?, more like one side, desperately seeking justification for violent extremism.

These attacks have been about enforcing a defacto blasphemy law on a secular western country (which is France not the UK so not sure where all the denunciations of UK foreign policy come into it).

The most bloodiest of the recent attacks on UK soil was an attack on young girls living what the attacker deemed to be "decadent western lifestyles".

Edited by JagLover on Thursday 29th October 12:08

[anonymous-user]

Can only see this getting worse. The next month will be interesting to watch as the lockdown kicks in and people feel more constrained.

Feels like a powder keg.

[uncleluck]

youngsyr said:

Absolutely horrific and unjustifiable attack and two wrongs certainly don't make a right, but it seems to me that a lot of people feel that these attacks come out of nowhere?

Let's not forget that our hands aren't entirely clean either - the UK was part of the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq not so long ago on highly dubious grounds. We also backed the US when they threw the right to a fair trial out the window, secretly extradited dozens of individuals and tortured more in those countries.

Again, that doesn't justify these attacks, but the attackers aren't the only ones we should be looking to blame and we should all be aware of the consequences of our foreign policy actions.

Let’s just get the reason straight for all this recent trouble in France, it’s all in direct response for “insulting their prophet”

Nothing to do with anything else and there’s no justification for it by going over other wrongs/issues etc.

[AJL308]

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Absolutely horrific and unjustifiable attack and two wrongs certainly don't make a right, but it seems to me that a lot of people feel that these attacks come out of nowhere?

Let's not forget that our hands aren't entirely clean either - the UK was part of the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq not so long ago on highly dubious grounds. We also backed the US when they threw the right to a fair trial out the window, secretly extradited dozens of individuals and tortured more in those countries.

Again, that doesn't justify these attacks, but the attackers aren't the only ones we should be looking to blame and we should all be aware of the consequences of our foreign policy actions.

Sounds a lot like justification to me.

Not a justification at all, but in trying to find a solution, let's look at both sides of the story - something that no-one else has yet mentioned in this thread.

The solution on the Muslim side seems to be clear enough. Thou shalt not publish pictures of the prophet anywhere on the planet. We can go back 800 years or so and talk about Saladin and Richard the Lionheart but what's the solution to the issue of the pictures?

We live in a society the values of which allow us to take the piss out of religion. Don't like it? fk off somewhere that will enforce that. It really is that simple and politicians needs to start saying it.

[s1962a]

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Absolutely horrific and unjustifiable attack and two wrongs certainly don't make a right, but it seems to me that a lot of people feel that these attacks come out of nowhere?

Let's not forget that our hands aren't entirely clean either - the UK was part of the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq not so long ago on highly dubious grounds. We also backed the US when they threw the right to a fair trial out the window, secretly extradited dozens of individuals and tortured more in those countries.

Again, that doesn't justify these attacks, but the attackers aren't the only ones we should be looking to blame and we should all be aware of the consequences of our foreign policy actions.

Sounds a lot like justification to me.

Not a justification at all, but in trying to find a solution, let's look at both sides of the story - something that no-one else has yet mentioned in this thread.

The solution on the Muslim side seems to be clear enough. Thou shalt not publish pictures of the prophet anywhere on the planet. We can go back 800 years or so and talk about Saladin and Richard the Lionheart but what's the solution to the issue of the pictures?

I'll try and answer this one.

Publish the pictures, be as satirical as you like, but dont go crying and 'recall ambassadors' as such when people insult you too - like what Macron did when Erdogan said he needs a 'mental check'. Also less of the hypocrisy when it comes to who we do big business with and sell arms too.

[Biggy Stardust]

Tyre Smoke said:

Well, you really won't get that from the bigots like AJL308 on this thread. Because all Muslims are a medieval bunch apparently. Until he wants a curry. Or a taxi at 3am. Or something from the 24hr garage late at night. No, they're medieval. Not hard working people with no extremist religious views at all. Nope, they're clearly all murderous ragheads.

Most of us don't have a problem with the decent ones, we have a problem with the deranged religious zealots.

The religious zealots are overwhelmingly of one flavour. How do we deal with them? I don't know the answer but I suggest 'no more Mr Nice Guy' should figure strongly in the solution.

Before any accusations of bigotry I'll point out I have a copy of the koran on my bookshelf & spend a lot of time in muslim countries with my mainly muslim friends.

[Taylor James]

s1962a said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Absolutely horrific and unjustifiable attack and two wrongs certainly don't make a right, but it seems to me that a lot of people feel that these attacks come out of nowhere?

Let's not forget that our hands aren't entirely clean either - the UK was part of the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq not so long ago on highly dubious grounds. We also backed the US when they threw the right to a fair trial out the window, secretly extradited dozens of individuals and tortured more in those countries.

Again, that doesn't justify these attacks, but the attackers aren't the only ones we should be looking to blame and we should all be aware of the consequences of our foreign policy actions.

Sounds a lot like justification to me.

Not a justification at all, but in trying to find a solution, let's look at both sides of the story - something that no-one else has yet mentioned in this thread.

The solution on the Muslim side seems to be clear enough. Thou shalt not publish pictures of the prophet anywhere on the planet. We can go back 800 years or so and talk about Saladin and Richard the Lionheart but what's the solution to the issue of the pictures?

I'll try and answer this one.

Publish the pictures, be as satirical as you like, but dont go crying and 'recall ambassadors' as such when people insult you too - like what Macron did when Erdogan said he needs a 'mental check'. Also less of the hypocrisy when it comes to who we do big business with and sell arms too.

Would you be willing post a picture of the prophet on here, now?

[A Winner Is You]

Taylor James said:

s1962a said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Absolutely horrific and unjustifiable attack and two wrongs certainly don't make a right, but it seems to me that a lot of people feel that these attacks come out of nowhere?

Let's not forget that our hands aren't entirely clean either - the UK was part of the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq not so long ago on highly dubious grounds. We also backed the US when they threw the right to a fair trial out the window, secretly extradited dozens of individuals and tortured more in those countries.

Again, that doesn't justify these attacks, but the attackers aren't the only ones we should be looking to blame and we should all be aware of the consequences of our foreign policy actions.

Sounds a lot like justification to me.

Not a justification at all, but in trying to find a solution, let's look at both sides of the story - something that no-one else has yet mentioned in this thread.

The solution on the Muslim side seems to be clear enough. Thou shalt not publish pictures of the prophet anywhere on the planet. We can go back 800 years or so and talk about Saladin and Richard the Lionheart but what's the solution to the issue of the pictures?

I'll try and answer this one.

Publish the pictures, be as satirical as you like, but dont go crying and 'recall ambassadors' as such when people insult you too - like what Macron did when Erdogan said he needs a 'mental check'. Also less of the hypocrisy when it comes to who we do big business with and sell arms too.

Would you be willing post a picture of the prophet on here, now?

It would get removed

[s1962a]

Taylor James said:

s1962a said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Absolutely horrific and unjustifiable attack and two wrongs certainly don't make a right, but it seems to me that a lot of people feel that these attacks come out of nowhere?

Let's not forget that our hands aren't entirely clean either - the UK was part of the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq not so long ago on highly dubious grounds. We also backed the US when they threw the right to a fair trial out the window, secretly extradited dozens of individuals and tortured more in those countries.

Again, that doesn't justify these attacks, but the attackers aren't the only ones we should be looking to blame and we should all be aware of the consequences of our foreign policy actions.

Sounds a lot like justification to me.

Not a justification at all, but in trying to find a solution, let's look at both sides of the story - something that no-one else has yet mentioned in this thread.

The solution on the Muslim side seems to be clear enough. Thou shalt not publish pictures of the prophet anywhere on the planet. We can go back 800 years or so and talk about Saladin and Richard the Lionheart but what's the solution to the issue of the pictures?

I'll try and answer this one.

Publish the pictures, be as satirical as you like, but dont go crying and 'recall ambassadors' as such when people insult you too - like what Macron did when Erdogan said he needs a 'mental check'. Also less of the hypocrisy when it comes to who we do big business with and sell arms too.

Would you be willing post a picture of the prophet on here, now?

I wouldn't, no. But then again I respect all religions. I have Christian, Jewish, Hindu, and athiest friends where I have had discussions about religion, politics, womens rights etc, and I respect their views as well as airing mine.

[AJL308]

A Winner Is You said:

Taylor James said:

s1962a said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Absolutely horrific and unjustifiable attack and two wrongs certainly don't make a right, but it seems to me that a lot of people feel that these attacks come out of nowhere?

Let's not forget that our hands aren't entirely clean either - the UK was part of the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq not so long ago on highly dubious grounds. We also backed the US when they threw the right to a fair trial out the window, secretly extradited dozens of individuals and tortured more in those countries.

Again, that doesn't justify these attacks, but the attackers aren't the only ones we should be looking to blame and we should all be aware of the consequences of our foreign policy actions.

Sounds a lot like justification to me.

Not a justification at all, but in trying to find a solution, let's look at both sides of the story - something that no-one else has yet mentioned in this thread.

The solution on the Muslim side seems to be clear enough. Thou shalt not publish pictures of the prophet anywhere on the planet. We can go back 800 years or so and talk about Saladin and Richard the Lionheart but what's the solution to the issue of the pictures?

I'll try and answer this one.

Publish the pictures, be as satirical as you like, but dont go crying and 'recall ambassadors' as such when people insult you too - like what Macron did when Erdogan said he needs a 'mental check'. Also less of the hypocrisy when it comes to who we do big business with and sell arms too.

Would you be willing post a picture of the prophet on here, now?

It would get removed

Exactly! It would get removed because PH would fear their offices being shot up. I bet you could post pictures, even offensive ones, of the main protagonist of any of the worlds religions without them getting removed but not of Islam.

[hiccy18]

Interesting juxtaposition between BBC and Aljazeera & France24 newsfeeds at the moment, apparently the inquiry into anti-semitism in the Labour party is more important than the terror attacks in France.

[Taylor James]

s1962a said:

Taylor James said:

s1962a said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Absolutely horrific and unjustifiable attack and two wrongs certainly don't make a right, but it seems to me that a lot of people feel that these attacks come out of nowhere?

Let's not forget that our hands aren't entirely clean either - the UK was part of the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq not so long ago on highly dubious grounds. We also backed the US when they threw the right to a fair trial out the window, secretly extradited dozens of individuals and tortured more in those countries.

Again, that doesn't justify these attacks, but the attackers aren't the only ones we should be looking to blame and we should all be aware of the consequences of our foreign policy actions.

Sounds a lot like justification to me.

Not a justification at all, but in trying to find a solution, let's look at both sides of the story - something that no-one else has yet mentioned in this thread.

The solution on the Muslim side seems to be clear enough. Thou shalt not publish pictures of the prophet anywhere on the planet. We can go back 800 years or so and talk about Saladin and Richard the Lionheart but what's the solution to the issue of the pictures?

I'll try and answer this one.

Publish the pictures, be as satirical as you like, but dont go crying and 'recall ambassadors' as such when people insult you too - like what Macron did when Erdogan said he needs a 'mental check'. Also less of the hypocrisy when it comes to who we do big business with and sell arms too.

Would you be willing post a picture of the prophet on here, now?

I wouldn't, no. But then again I respect all religions. I have Christian, Jewish, Hindu, and athiest friends where I have had discussions about religion, politics, womens rights etc, and I respect their views as well as airing mine.

Thought not.

[AJL308]

s1962a said:

Taylor James said:

s1962a said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Absolutely horrific and unjustifiable attack and two wrongs certainly don't make a right, but it seems to me that a lot of people feel that these attacks come out of nowhere?

Let's not forget that our hands aren't entirely clean either - the UK was part of the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq not so long ago on highly dubious grounds. We also backed the US when they threw the right to a fair trial out the window, secretly extradited dozens of individuals and tortured more in those countries.

Again, that doesn't justify these attacks, but the attackers aren't the only ones we should be looking to blame and we should all be aware of the consequences of our foreign policy actions.

Sounds a lot like justification to me.

Not a justification at all, but in trying to find a solution, let's look at both sides of the story - something that no-one else has yet mentioned in this thread.

The solution on the Muslim side seems to be clear enough. Thou shalt not publish pictures of the prophet anywhere on the planet. We can go back 800 years or so and talk about Saladin and Richard the Lionheart but what's the solution to the issue of the pictures?

I'll try and answer this one.

Publish the pictures, be as satirical as you like, but dont go crying and 'recall ambassadors' as such when people insult you too - like what Macron did when Erdogan said he needs a 'mental check'. Also less of the hypocrisy when it comes to who we do big business with and sell arms too.

Would you be willing post a picture of the prophet on here, now?

I wouldn't, no. But then again I respect all religions. I have Christian, Jewish, Hindu, and athiest friends where I have had discussions about religion, politics, womens rights etc, and I respect their views as well as airing mine.

Do you also respect a person's right to express their opinion that religion as a whole is a ludicrous and outdated concept in today's modern world? Do you respect ones right to ridicule individual religions, even to the extent of publishing pictures of their deities?

[anonymous-user]

hiccy18 said:

Interesting juxtaposition between BBC and Aljazeera & France24 newsfeeds at the moment, apparently the inquiry into anti-semitism in the Labour party is more important than the terror attacks in France.

Top left - terror attack.

Top right - labour anti-semetism.

Natural point for the eyes to focus is top left given our western left to right reading style, therefore the Nice attack has top billing on the Beeb news homepage.

[s1962a]

AJL308 said:

s1962a said:

Taylor James said:

s1962a said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Taylor James said:

youngsyr said:

Absolutely horrific and unjustifiable attack and two wrongs certainly don't make a right, but it seems to me that a lot of people feel that these attacks come out of nowhere?

Let's not forget that our hands aren't entirely clean either - the UK was part of the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq not so long ago on highly dubious grounds. We also backed the US when they threw the right to a fair trial out the window, secretly extradited dozens of individuals and tortured more in those countries.

Again, that doesn't justify these attacks, but the attackers aren't the only ones we should be looking to blame and we should all be aware of the consequences of our foreign policy actions.

Sounds a lot like justification to me.

Not a justification at all, but in trying to find a solution, let's look at both sides of the story - something that no-one else has yet mentioned in this thread.

The solution on the Muslim side seems to be clear enough. Thou shalt not publish pictures of the prophet anywhere on the planet. We can go back 800 years or so and talk about Saladin and Richard the Lionheart but what's the solution to the issue of the pictures?

I'll try and answer this one.

Publish the pictures, be as satirical as you like, but dont go crying and 'recall ambassadors' as such when people insult you too - like what Macron did when Erdogan said he needs a 'mental check'. Also less of the hypocrisy when it comes to who we do big business with and sell arms too.

Would you be willing post a picture of the prophet on here, now?

I wouldn't, no. But then again I respect all religions. I have Christian, Jewish, Hindu, and athiest friends where I have had discussions about religion, politics, womens rights etc, and I respect their views as well as airing mine.

Do you also respect a person's right to express their opinion that religion as a whole is a ludicrous and outdated concept in today's modern world? Do you respect ones right to ridicule individual religions, even to the extent of publishing pictures of their deities?

Yes. As most people I know do.

Do you believe in not recalling ambassadors / throwing toys out of the pram because a leader of another country says you need a mental check up?

[Lotobear]

s1962a said:

No muslim I have ever talked to has expressed sympathy for beheading people. I call bullst that anyone else had that expressed to them on PH.

It's subtle though and usually takes the form of an evasion of outright condemnation or a defensive condemnation of 'all forms of violence' without directly condeming the ones how go all 'choppy' on the innocents - really means the same thing, namely that they do sympathise. It's a bit like the politicians favourite - "I apologise if my words caused any offence or made you feel that way". Reminds me a bit of Jezza and Ken with the whole Jewish thing

[hiccy18]

Sam.M said:

hiccy18 said:

Interesting juxtaposition between BBC and Aljazeera & France24 newsfeeds at the moment, apparently the inquiry into anti-semitism in the Labour party is more important than the terror attacks in France.

Top left - terror attack.

Top right - labour anti-semetism.

Natural point for the eyes to focus is top left given our western left to right reading style, therefore the Nice attack has top billing on the Beeb news homepage.

Perhaps my phrasing was misleading, I was referring to the telly: just had a solid hour plus of discussion about the Labour party and Keir Starmer getting grilled before a few minutes of "other news".

ETA: now headlines leading with the Labour party, first article coronavirus.

Edited by hiccy18 on Thursday 29th October 12:32

[A Winner Is You]

AJL308 said:

Do you also respect a person's right to express their opinion that religion as a whole is a ludicrous and outdated concept in today's modern world? Do you respect ones right to ridicule individual religions, even to the extent of publishing pictures of their deities?

I'll post a picture, but only if we have have some official confirmation that doing so won't result in my account being suspended or banned.