Suspected terror attack in Nice
Discussion
Murph7355 said:
Taylor James said:
Except lines are no longer so clearly drawn. What is acceptable here now? It's clear we've largely allowed ourselves to be intimidated out of risking causing offence to some groups. The lines are very clearly drawn in countries like Saudi, There is no conflict about traditional values there. Try making the argument here and you can be sure it will only get harder. There's always a tipping point so eventually our values can be replaced.
In the heat of the moment I can see where that view comes from.But in reality, is it *really* that bad? Is serious conflict really that prevalent?
I get that "one death is one too many" and genuinely agree with it. But there are whack jobs in every walk of life - look at the cocksocket that killed Jo Cox. Whilst I appreciate some on here would like it to happen, do we round up every Brexit voter and ship them off to gitmo?
As long as the rule of law is followed, and democratic process is followed, we need to be careful how much further we react. Not to say we ignore the challenges, but great care is needed not to throw babies out with bathwater.
A teacher identified by pupils and decapitated in a street
Mass shooting killing 90 at a gig in Paris
People murdering 20 or more people at a pop concert in Manchester
A dozen journalists murdered
Multiple London attacks
Tourists machine gunned on a Tunisian beach
That's a fraction of the attacks.
It's a tad more more than an isolated incident.
i4got said:
I wasn't summarising hm - I was summarising you.
Only one side of the argument is advocating cutting peoples heads off if they disagree with them. Slightly lost the moral argument there.
We don't need to give his views any consideration. It's not as though people in France are asking for gay marriage in Saudi. Let backwards countries be run by backwards religions as much as they want. But don't tell the West they have to adjust their standards to fit in with that backward religion.
That's good in principle. But the problem arises when you have a large and ever-growing contingent of people in Western countries who have at least some sympathy for the head cutters. Radically different views + differential birth rates + democracy doesn't portend a good outcome. That's the real elephant in the room - more like an entire herd of woolly mammoth actually.Only one side of the argument is advocating cutting peoples heads off if they disagree with them. Slightly lost the moral argument there.
We don't need to give his views any consideration. It's not as though people in France are asking for gay marriage in Saudi. Let backwards countries be run by backwards religions as much as they want. But don't tell the West they have to adjust their standards to fit in with that backward religion.
"When I am weak, I ask you to respect my freedom, as that is in accordance with your principles. When I am strong I take away your freedom, as that is in accordance with my principles."
i4got said:
I wasn't summarising hm - I was summarising you.
You don't say. Thanks for clarifying as I hadn't understood that 
(You're still s
t at it. It is not what I said. Your summary was poor. 1/10 - you get the 1 for typing).On the rest, you're not understanding where I was coming from.
His view was being called out seemingly as "wrong", but actually on technical grounds he's correct (or certainly highly likely to be).
That doesn't mean to say we have to give anything he says any credence at all. BUT it would be wise of us to digest the particular piece I commented on and to accept it as a view.
Continuing to simply say "you're all retarded and we couldn't care less what you think" is unlikely to be a solid solution to extremism
We don't have to say "cool, you're right, we're wrong" either...we just need to understand the viewpoint.
Getragdogleg said:
Its all people trying to tell others how to live. I think its ridiculous having a beard and wearing what look like sheets or curtains but to date I have resisted getting uppity about it or telling people they are not allowed to do it.
you can't tell people they aren't allowed to do it as it's just clothing! the beards and sheets are the last thing i care about personally!Murph7355 said:
You don't say. Thanks for clarifying as I hadn't understood that (You're still st at it. It is not what I said. Your summary was poor. 1/10 - you get the 1 for typing).
On the rest, you're not understanding where I was coming from.
His view was being called out seemingly as "wrong", but actually on technical grounds he's correct (or certainly highly likely to be).
That doesn't mean to say we have to give anything he says any credence at all. BUT it would be wise of us to digest the particular piece I commented on and to accept it as a view.
Continuing to simply say "you're all retarded and we couldn't care less what you think" is unlikely to be a solid solution to extremism We don't have to say "cool, you're right, we're wrong" either...we just need to understand the viewpoint.
Thats the third post in which you says Dr Mohamad is right in his views. (or highly likely to be). (You're still st at it. It is not what I said. Your summary was poor. 1/10 - you get the 1 for typing).On the rest, you're not understanding where I was coming from.
His view was being called out seemingly as "wrong", but actually on technical grounds he's correct (or certainly highly likely to be).
That doesn't mean to say we have to give anything he says any credence at all. BUT it would be wise of us to digest the particular piece I commented on and to accept it as a view.
Continuing to simply say "you're all retarded and we couldn't care less what you think" is unlikely to be a solid solution to extremism
We don't have to say "cool, you're right, we're wrong" either...we just need to understand the viewpoint.Just to remind ourselves of his views. "Muslims have a right to be angry and to kill millions of French people"
Taylor James said:
...
It's a tad more more than an isolated incident.
I didn't say "isolated". I noted "prevalent".It's a tad more more than an isolated incident.
I believe there were 4,000 murders across the EU in 2018. Something like 650 or so here (as the 4k was EU-27).
I'm not suggesting it isn't an issue. It very much is. But care needs to be taken in dealing with it and how we react.
Murph7355 said:
Taylor James said:
...
It's a tad more more than an isolated incident.
I didn't say "isolated". I noted "prevalent".It's a tad more more than an isolated incident.
I believe there were 4,000 murders across the EU in 2018. Something like 650 or so here (as the 4k was EU-27).
I'm not suggesting it isn't an issue. It very much is. But care needs to be taken in dealing with it and how we react.
I feel we've tried the accomodating approach. I'm not sure we can be more accommodating but judging by some of the comments from around the world it's clear others don't share that view. We can add to that the internal voices happy to tell us we share some of the blame.
Edited by Taylor James on Thursday 29th October 14:28
WCZ said:
Getragdogleg said:
Its all people trying to tell others how to live. I think its ridiculous having a beard and wearing what look like sheets or curtains but to date I have resisted getting uppity about it or telling people they are not allowed to do it.
you can't tell people they aren't allowed to do it as it's just clothing! the beards and sheets are the last thing i care about personally!I wouldn't have a beard and a robe and go out in it. but I am not telling others not to but I'm disappointed that they feel they need to you see, in this instance the beard and robe are symbolic. A signal to show conformity and to identify as a member of that group, and the exclusion of others.
WCZ said:
Islamophobia trending on twitter, really surprised at how this time round there is a lot of sympathy for the killers. maybe the tide is turning to some extent and we should just change the laws in europe to no mockery of the 'prophet' allowed, would make things easier
You'd need to restore the death penalty while you were at it.s1962a said:
What is the elephant in the room, in your opinion?
The propensity of Muslims in Europe to such savagery, something that no other group does.If you are willing to give an honest answer to an honest question, which religion do you think the attacker will have?
It’s of course possible that they’ll be a Jain, or a Methodist, but you and I both know that in nearly every case it’ll be a young Muslim male.
WCZ said:
Islamophobia trending on twitter, really surprised at how this time round there is a lot of sympathy for the killers. maybe the tide is turning to some extent and we should just change the laws in europe to no mockery of the 'prophet' allowed, would make things easier
How easily are hard won freedoms from religious intolerance cast aside.I should not be surprised that many from a generation brought up to loathe their own culture and countries would express such views.
"Sympathy" for a religious nut case who beheads three random people in a church, give me strength.
Getragdogleg said:
Its all people trying to tell others how to live. I think its ridiculous having a beard and wearing what look like sheets or curtains but to date I have resisted getting uppity about it or telling people they are not allowed to do it.
We need to make a global list of things we can agree we don't like and use that as the basis of our societies.
Lets start with a few basics :
Don't kill people.
Don't hurt people, physically or mentally.
Don't steal stuff, or money.
Don't cheat or go back on your word.
Don't put your cock in places its not wanted/asked for/is too young/is married to someone else (unless they are cool with it)
This should do for starters, anyone else fancy adding to it ? We don't need a big list. less is more as they say.
As that Australian bloke is fond of pointing out No one needs a religion to tell them "don't be a We need to make a global list of things we can agree we don't like and use that as the basis of our societies.
Lets start with a few basics :
Don't kill people.
Don't hurt people, physically or mentally.
Don't steal stuff, or money.
Don't cheat or go back on your word.
Don't put your cock in places its not wanted/asked for/is too young/is married to someone else (unless they are cool with it)
This should do for starters, anyone else fancy adding to it ? We don't need a big list. less is more as they say.
". Just don't be a , or words to that effect. Getragdogleg said:
Its all people trying to tell others how to live. I think its ridiculous having a beard and wearing what look like sheets or curtains but to date I have resisted getting uppity about it or telling people they are not allowed to do it.
We need to make a global list of things we can agree we don't like and use that as the basis of our societies.
Lets start with a few basics :
Don't kill people.
Don't hurt people, physically or mentally.
Don't steal stuff, or money.
Don't cheat or go back on your word.
Don't put your cock in places its not wanted/asked for/is too young/is married to someone else (unless they are cool with it)
This should do for starters, anyone else fancy adding to it ? We don't need a big list. less is more as they say.
I know, let's call them commandmentsWe need to make a global list of things we can agree we don't like and use that as the basis of our societies.
Lets start with a few basics :
Don't kill people.
Don't hurt people, physically or mentally.
Don't steal stuff, or money.
Don't cheat or go back on your word.
Don't put your cock in places its not wanted/asked for/is too young/is married to someone else (unless they are cool with it)
This should do for starters, anyone else fancy adding to it ? We don't need a big list. less is more as they say.
France is viewed as having declared war on Islam:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/02/emma...
Given their colonial past, this will not go down well.
We know how these things work: terrorism, crackdowns, more terrorism, etc.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/02/emma...
Given their colonial past, this will not go down well.
We know how these things work: terrorism, crackdowns, more terrorism, etc.
WCZ said:
Islamophobia trending on twitter, really surprised at how this time round there is a lot of sympathy for the killers. maybe the tide is turning to some extent and we should just change the laws in europe to no mockery of the 'prophet' allowed, would make things easier
Sounds like the song of the domestic abuse victim"he's a very nice man, just don't make him angry."
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