CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 6)

[rich888]

Elysium said:

rich888 said:

WindyCommon said:

rich888 said:

I've finally managed to download the death statistics in an .xls format from the official ONS website for weekly deaths, and was quite astonished to note that the overall numbers have hardly moved for the past few months apart from the spike earlier in the year when the epidemic peaked in the UK.

For info the .xls files for this and previous years are available from this link:

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunit...

I'm not that good with spreadsheets so wonder whether Elysium or someone else that is equally talented could take a look and convert the total death figures into a graph, and overlay a few earlier years so that we can compare the numbers.

Does this show what you’re looking for? Credit Alistair Haimes.

Cheers WindyCommon, that's nearly the one I was looking for, I think that one is the one I found for you last week but it's in figures and I was after a graph, and guess what, I found it on another thread.



The graph was posted by PH member kiethton on page 40 of the 'lockdown Imminent (vol 2)' thread, and like he said, we're being played each and every way. Is utterly disgraceful they way the politicians and the press are behaving, there needs to be an inquiry after this and the regulations need to be changed so that both sides of the argument can be shown in the news. This is not North Korea.

Check this out as well:

http://inproportion2.talkigy.com/dashboard/

Thank you

[craig1912]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

and more people in Sweden live in an urban environment and they haven’t had “lockdowns”

[djohnson]

Stay in Bed Instead said:

For once I feel lucky, my car is being serviced & MOT on Tuesday.

A small thing in the grand scheme of things but mine is too. I booked it in a month early thinking there might be a second lockdown.

[the-photographer]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Two big things to factor when arguing for their strategy (1) social conformity (2) single person households, as we know very important for virus spread.

[MDMetal]

RSTurboPaul said:

Telegraph poll on whether or not people support National Lockdown pt2:

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1322620212789...



52.9% Yes
47.1% No

(3,480 votes)

I would say that is far from conclusive that they have support for this.

In times past many people argued the 48% got to have another I believe?

[Douglas Quaid]

the-photographer said:

Douglas Quaid said:

the-photographer said:

In comparison, Greece, blue first wave, red second, black prediction.

• Much better weather, no it won't save you
• Fragile health system
• New Germany style restrictions introduced this week

Every country will have the same challenges, even Germany with the most beds per capita.

Is that deaths or ‘cases’?

That's cases

Well what is the point of the graph then? Testing capacity has changed in the last few months. Of course more infections are being detected now as there is a lot more testing. God knows what that graph would look like if testing capacity had been consistent throughout but I’m pretty sure it would look nothing like that.

[Boringvolvodriver]

Canute said:

I'm in Sweden.. so say what you want.

But I've seen nothing but selfish, idiotic and plain dumb stuff back in the UK..

Great I am happy for you - stay on a Swedish forum then.

[Elysium]

silvagod said:

Elysium said:

This video by Sumption is the truth:

https://youtu.be/amDv2gk8aa0

We have veered into authoritarianism. Our freedom is at risk and ‘bad actors’ are trying to profit from the situation. This is not conspiracy. It’s real.

It’s time to take a stand for what we believe in. No apologies. No guilt. We just need to do what is right for ourselves and our loved ones.

We are not alone now. Many people oppose this and we are beginning to organise:

Hang on, is that a statement of fact or an opinion?

Everything I post is my opinion, which is based on the evidence that I have seen.

[the-photographer]

Douglas Quaid said:

the-photographer said:

Douglas Quaid said:

the-photographer said:

In comparison, Greece, blue first wave, red second, black prediction.

• Much better weather, no it won't save you
• Fragile health system
• New Germany style restrictions introduced this week

Every country will have the same challenges, even Germany with the most beds per capita.

Is that deaths or ‘cases’?

That's cases

Well what is the point of the graph then? Testing capacity has changed in the last few months. Of course more infections are being detected now as there is a lot more testing. God knows what that graph would look like if testing capacity had been consistent throughout but I’m pretty sure it would look nothing like that.

Sure, its about rapid growth everywhere in Europe, even warm places and with a country that had excellent suppression in the first wave.

[djohnson]

Ntv said:

What was the COVID capacity of the NHS in each month since May?

What measures have been taken that have increased or decreased NHS COVID capacity since May?

Now wait a moment, you can’t expect clear answers to pertinent questions which would reveal the true extent (or lack thereof) of action taken by government and the nhs during and since the last lockdown which was specifically to give nhs time to prepare. That’s just not how it works. You’ll be saying next that government and the public sector should be, at least loosely, accountable to the taxpayer especially when the taxpayer spent months under virtual house arrest and has suffered all sorts of psychological and economic damage in the interests of the nhs.

[the-photographer]

Canute said:

I'm in Sweden.. so say what you want.

But I've seen nothing but selfish, idiotic and plain dumb stuff back in the UK..

Yep, social common sense higher in Sweden

[Pistom]

the-photographer said:

Two big things to factor when arguing for their strategy (1) social conformity (2) single person households, as we know very important for virus spread.

Doesn't single households just mean they don't just have sex with one person?

[stitched]

whitesocks said:

danllama said:

I think the elephant in the room should be addressed - we are overpopulated. Overpopulation is the cause of so many problems the world faces. Why not let nature's cull do it's job? We can all crack on and preserve our economy and futures too.

If I had a quid for every moron who said they believed in the 'Overpopulation' myth, I would be a rich man by now.

I'd suggest self employment in a non people facing role if you want to become rich.
Maybe stocks and shares, you would fit right in with a bunch of arrogant, selfish narcissistic s.

[plasticpig]

djohnson said:

A small thing in the grand scheme of things but mine is too. I booked it in a month early thinking there might be a second lockdown.

Mines booked in for Friday. No worries though as.car repairs and servicing are on the essential services list and didn’t have to close in the first lockdown or indeed this one.

[df76]

the-photographer said:

Two big things to factor when arguing for their strategy (1) social conformity (2) single person households, as we know very important for virus spread.

Wasn’t aware of that info before, now their plan makes more sense.. and why others across Europe could not adopt the same.

[JagLover]

GMT13 said:

Academia is dominated by left leaning individuals and, for whatever reason, lefties love lockdown.

I don't think that is entirely fair and there are a number of left leaning posters on here firmly opposed.

There is no reason that I can see why your average social democrat should be any more in favour than your average centre right voter.

The issue is with modern Marxism and how it has mutated into new forms. The fervent greens for example who are water melons, green on the outside and deep red on the inside. This is an excuse to curtail private travel, restrict individual freedoms and cripple private enterprise, so of course they have leapt at the opportunity eagerly.

[Elysium]

b0rk said:

ash73 said:

All good links, but the thing we need is more details on admissions. How many with covid, how many because covid, how many symptomatic, etc... because it's rising admissions that's the concern if you look forward 4 weeks - how many are going to turn into deaths?

Well the below popped up on twitter

https://twitter.com/RealJoelSmalley/status/1322544...

If correct the majority of COVID cases in hospital where not initially admitted with/for COVID diagnosed on/after admission.

The dataset appears to be:
https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-...

This is what I have been trying to flag and it is covered in the video I shared by the pathologist yesterday.

We now have unprecedented testing capacity for this disease. We are testing everyone in hospital for COVID and we include anyone who had COVID within 14 days of admission, or who tests positive after admission as a COVID admission.

Some of these admissions will be for people who have symptomatic COVID. But if you are in a hospice, dying of cancer, and you test positive you will be moved to hospital as a COVID admission. If you test positive after a hip replacement you will be a COVID admission.

This means that these numbers are not comparable to those at the start of this crisis when we were only testing people who were ill with COVID symptoms.

We were told yesterday that some hospitals have more COVID patients than they did at the peak, Whitty and Vallance said nothing about the way that testing could distort these numbers. They gave no hint that any COVID patient could have it in a way that is incidental to the reason they are in hospital. It may be that the numbers show this is a small problem, but the fact that it is not addressed makes me deeply uncomfortable. It adds to my belief that we are being deliberately manipulated and coerced.

[Elysium]

isaldiri said:

rich888 said:

Cheers WindyCommon, that's nearly the one I was looking for, I think that one is the one I found for you last week but it's in figures and I was after a graph, and guess what, I found it on another thread.



The graph was posted by PH member kiethton on page 40 of the 'lockdown Imminent (vol 2)' thread, and like he said, we're being played each and every way. Is utterly disgraceful they way the politicians and the press are behaving, there needs to be an inquiry after this and the regulations need to be changed so that both sides of the argument can be shown in the news. This is not North Korea.

Perhaps I am missing something.

exactly how does that chart show 'we are being played'? We locked down in March in and around week 12 when excess deaths were < 100. There were about 3100 people in hospital with covid at that point as well in England and Wales. As of week ending 16 october, we had 600 covid deaths (and excess deaths) and 9500 in hospital as of 30 October. I don't particularly think that graph necessarily shows what you think it does tbh.

I don’t believe that deaths and hospitalisation now are directly comparable to those in the initial outbreak.

The boundaries for each of these things have been significantly changed by the increases in testing.

At the peak, we had excess deaths wherever we had COVID deaths. Now that relationship has broken down. An increased proportion of deaths from COVID appear to be replacing deaths we expected to see from other conditions.

The pathologists video I posted yesterday uses Liverpool as an example. 27% of total COVID deaths occurred in this ‘second wave’, but the proportion of excess deaths occurring in the second wave is many times lower.

[the-photographer]

df76 said:

the-photographer said:

Two big things to factor when arguing for their strategy (1) social conformity (2) single person households, as we know very important for virus spread.

Wasn’t aware of that info before, now their plan makes more sense.. and why others across Europe could not adopt the same.

Yep, we (the UK) can forgot Sweden too many fundamental differences, the next one being employees rights to full pay while sick or their benefits insurance of around £70day.

Edited by the-photographer on Sunday 1st November 08:59

[the-photographer]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Norway will also do "well" this winter with 44% and Finland because only 22% of households have children.