46th President of the United States, Joe Biden
Discussion
PRTVR said:
rscott said:
PRTVR said:
JeffreyD said:
PRTVR said:
No, the rules are that any political party has a right to be present at the audit,
Personally I would make it compulsory, why would they not want to have them present?
Remember this situation could easily be the other way round and the Democrats could be the ones being denied their right to witness an Audit, and my view would have been the same.
Have you got an example of the rules?Personally I would make it compulsory, why would they not want to have them present?
Remember this situation could easily be the other way round and the Democrats could be the ones being denied their right to witness an Audit, and my view would have been the same.
Where are they written down?
https://youtu.be/hy3LRi2baXQ
Personally it appears logical, else you could just say the audit took place without any verification.
Oh and a Republican tried to pass a bill in the state Senate giving the Senate power to overrule any election results and instead they could decide where the electoral college votes go - https://eu.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/lauri...
Are either of those actions of Republicans who want to ensure accurate elections? Seem more like desperate bids to override the will of the people and instead decide themselves who should get their vote.
Oh and the Republican state chair refuses to allow any audit of the November 2020 election for that very position, despite requests from members of her own party - https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/arizona-trump... . It would appear she's happy to claim Biden somehow cheated and insists on further audits to try to prove it, but refuses to allow exactly the same scrutiny of her own victory.
I am not talking about a few votes here, there would have to be systematic fraud to cause concern.
The two party system will always cause polarisation,
I am sure the Democrats are equally willing to use whatever means possible to achieve there goal, that's just how it is.
They shouldn't hold a full audit because doesn't like the result. Even if they did, some Trump supporters would still argue it was rigged in some way and demand a different audit, covering a part of the process not included in the earlier ones.
You don't see the hypocrisy in the GOP state leader demanding a full audit into the Trump result while refusing one into her own?
PRTVR said:
But the fact remains that a full audit with representatives of both parties involved would decide who is correct,
I am not talking about a few votes here, there would have to be systematic fraud to cause concern.
The two party system will always cause polarisation,
I am sure the Democrats are equally willing to use whatever means possible to achieve there goal, that's just how it is.
Your side has already cheated. You don't seem to care about that which is why ii dismiss your concerns for democracy as bad faith.I am not talking about a few votes here, there would have to be systematic fraud to cause concern.
The two party system will always cause polarisation,
I am sure the Democrats are equally willing to use whatever means possible to achieve there goal, that's just how it is.
Dry your eyes and suck it up. You lost.
JeffreyD said:
PRTVR said:
But the fact remains that a full audit with representatives of both parties involved would decide who is correct,
I am not talking about a few votes here, there would have to be systematic fraud to cause concern.
The two party system will always cause polarisation,
I am sure the Democrats are equally willing to use whatever means possible to achieve there goal, that's just how it is.
Your side has already cheated. You don't seem to care about that which is why ii dismiss your concerns for democracy as bad faith.I am not talking about a few votes here, there would have to be systematic fraud to cause concern.
The two party system will always cause polarisation,
I am sure the Democrats are equally willing to use whatever means possible to achieve there goal, that's just how it is.
Dry your eyes and suck it up. You lost.
purplepenguin said:
Why does it bother you so much? You won. Get on with governing.
Those whose job it is to govern are getting on with governing. Aside from that, the relentless whining about the result, with no evidence of any significant election tampering, is tiresome, damaging, and dangerous.
It's up to those who lost to admit it, stop moaning and try to do better next time.
paulguitar said:
purplepenguin said:
Why does it bother you so much? You won. Get on with governing.
Those whose job it is to govern are getting on with governing. Aside from that, the relentless whining about the result, with no evidence of any significant election tampering, is tiresome, damaging, and dangerous.
It's up to those who lost to admit it, stop moaning and try to do better next time.
How about the Biden administration put together an all party inquiry to satisfy the doubters once and for all?
purplepenguin said:
Why does it bother you so much? You won. Get on with governing.
I'm interested because of the impact it has on UK politics - there is a large overlap with Trump, the Brexit leave campaign and the Johnson government. The latter two are absolutely dominant in UK politics at the moment.I find it fascinating that Biden won the most popular vote by a country mile and that the overall turnout was a record - much to be learned by this.
I also find it fascinating how easily people align themselves with a manifest lie when it suits them. And not just the usual political dissembling or half truths but a full on lie. That people are so cynical yet believe a tin foil hat theory.
How they apologise for a murderous assault on the seat of government whilst proclaiming to be the upholders of law and order.
What has happened to the US Republican party has happened to the UK Conservative party. UK Labour had similar with Corbyn but the moderates have wrestled back control and currently that's not going very well. It all points to the fact that first past the post two party politics is unhealthy for a modern democracy.
I am in lockdown and it's a distraction.
So why do you care?
purplepenguin said:
To be fair there was quite a lot of moaning when trump won.
Those concerns turned out to be pretty understandable, based on the four years of endless scandals that followed.purplepenguin said:
How about the Biden administration put together an all party inquiry to satisfy the doubters once and for all?
Shall we have one into the moon landings as well?
JeffreyD said:
What has happened to the US Republican party has happened to the UK Conservative party. UK Labour had similar with Corbyn but the moderates have wrestled back control and currently that's not going very well. It all points to the fact that first past the post two party politics is unhealthy for a modern democracy.
It's an interesting point. The main alternatives? Coalition? Didn't work for the LibDems, and you can argue that coalitions end up being a bit wishy washy as no-one ultimately gets what they think they voted for, and many things are a compromise versus the initial manifesto.JeffreyD said:
purplepenguin said:
Why does it bother you so much? You won. Get on with governing.
I'm interested because of the impact it has on UK politics - there is a large overlap with Trump, the Brexit leave campaign and the Johnson government. The latter two are absolutely dominant in UK politics at the moment.I find it fascinating that Biden won the most popular vote by a country mile and that the overall turnout was a record - much to be learned by this.
I also find it fascinating how easily people align themselves with a manifest lie when it suits them. And not just the usual political dissembling or half truths but a full on lie. That people are so cynical yet believe a tin foil hat theory.
How they apologise for a murderous assault on the seat of government whilst proclaiming to be the upholders of law and order.
What has happened to the US Republican party has happened to the UK Conservative party. UK Labour had similar with Corbyn but the moderates have wrestled back control and currently that's not going very well. It all points to the fact that first past the post two party politics is unhealthy for a modern democracy.
I am in lockdown and it's a distraction.
So why do you care?
I don’t really trust any politicians. Trump was a horrible person but there were obviously reasons for him gaining power.
If theses reasons are not addressed satisfactorily then there will be problems in the future. Some people believe that there were some issues in the voting and it would be disingenuous to think that they were completely wrong ( given the law of averages) - have an open enquiry and shut the doubters up?
The Biden administration is doing well but compared to the previous administration that wouldn’t be that difficult. It remains to be seen how they do over the 4 years.
This administration has dropped ordnance on overseas countries as have previous administration’s so no change there.
I’m not sure how much US politics has an effect on the UK - or is it just that populism can happen in any country?
paulguitar said:
purplepenguin said:
To be fair there was quite a lot of moaning when trump won.
Those concerns turned out to be pretty understandable, based on the four years of endless scandals that followed.purplepenguin said:
How about the Biden administration put together an all party inquiry to satisfy the doubters once and for all?
Shall we have one into the moon landings as well?vaud said:
It's an interesting point. The main alternatives? Coalition? Didn't work for the LibDems, and you can argue that coalitions end up being a bit wishy washy as no-one ultimately gets what they think they voted for, and many things are a compromise versus the initial manifesto.
Probably the best outcome. Most democracies do work on this basis.JeffreyD said:
I find it fascinating that Biden won the most popular vote by a country mile and that the overall turnout was a record - much to be learned by this.
Also worth noting Trump's vote in this election was what, the second highest ever, after Biden? It tells you Trump was not sufficiently unpopular that his vote collapsed and/or that enough people held their noses and voted for Trump to keep Biden out. Biden's mandate in the US is not as clear cut as enjoyed by the Conservatives over here, as his control has much finer margins. Here Boris can, within reason, bring in whatever he likes.The message from the US election is that the US is split and the centre ground not as powerful as it ought to be. This needs careful handling, as dissatisfaction with the centre ground means people have to move further towards extremes, which doesn't typically end well.
purplepenguin said:
Not keen on my enquiry idea then? Moon landing thing is just a poor deflection and doesn’t answer the question.
There is a link between all those who hold idiot conspiracy beliefs. If they believe one, there is a good chance they will believe many others.How many enquiries do you want. There were over 60 at the last count.
purplepenguin said:
Not keen on my enquiry idea then? Moon landing thing is just a poor deflection and doesn’t answer the question.
If there was evidence of significant wrongdoing then an enquiry might be in order. What we actually have is the most dishonest person in history not enjoying the result. It appears the minor incidents of attempted election tampering have involved Republicans.Do you have evidence that there has been significant wrongdoing? if so, have you contacted the FBI?
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff