46th President of the United States, Joe Biden

[5 In a Row]

Earthdweller said:

5 In a Row said:

Everything your saying is correct.
Unfortunately all the talk of corruption is coming from one side.
What are THEY doing to try to instil confidence in their supporters that the next election will be open and transparent?

Surely after the party leadership has supported over 60 legal cases to try to prove wrongdoing and lost them all (often with the lawyers eventually having to stand up and say they have no evidence to present) then the wider party needs to stop and reconsider?
We're not talking about idiots here, a lot of those STILL pushing this agenda are individuals with a decent education and successful career.
However, very few of them are doing that.

So what is the solution for the GOP?

It’s not a Republican issue,

Except it is.
They are the only ones shouting it from the rooftops.
I have seen ZERO coverage of a Dem politician/mouthpiece saying there was any election fraud but I'm happy for you to link me to something that does show that.

Have a look at any of the Republican leaning news sources and that's all they've been saying for months.

What is needed is for a bunch of top Republicans to stand up and say they were wrong, the election was accurate.
But they're not going to do that because they're too worried about keeping the votes of those who were gullible enough to believe the lie to actually care about the truth.

[paulguitar]

Earthdweller said:

they are in power, they should be doing everything they can to demonstrate the electoral system is honest and free ( as possible) from corruption.

They need to do that .. but I don’t think they will

I am genuinely perplexed by this view. This is nothing to do with being Dem or GOP, it's to do with trump repeatedly lying.

Why should the Democrats need to do anything whatsoever to demonstrate the electoral system is honest and free from corruption when there has been no evidence presented to show that there are any significant issues?

All of this has been caused by trump lying repeatedly to people who are very weak-minded and easily led. He knows he can lie because he knows they are stupid enough to believe him and knows he can milk them for cash.

So, the USA will move on from this when trump admits he's been lying and he lost the election. Until that happens, they are in serious trouble.

[928 GTS]

Earthdweller said:

Surely they need to be reassured that the next election will be open honest and transparent

Good luck trying to convince flat earther or moon landing is hoax believer they are wrong. Trump voters are possibly even more difficult. Not going to happen because Trump himself will not ever admit it.

[HM-2]

928 GTS said:

Earthdweller said:

Surely they need to be reassured that the next election will be open honest and transparent

Good luck trying to convince flat earther or moon landing is hoax believer they are wrong. Trump voters are possibly even more difficult. Not going to happen because Trump himself will not ever admit it.

Absolutely. Even more so given that one party has a vested interest in continuing to perpetuate the myth that the electoral system is corrupt and opaque- because it gives them the ammunition required to continue their crusade of voter suppression which is quite literally the only way the Republican party will be able to continue winning elections.

[Vanden Saab]

5 In a Row said:

Earthdweller said:

Really ?

Whether the election was corrupt or not is irrelevant, it strikes me that there are millions of Americans who believe it was

Surely they need to be reassured that the next election will be open honest and transparent

If people don’t trust the electoral system, then it’s clearly a major issue

It is a failure of the democratic process ... if people don’t trust or believe in the process it leads to people ignoring the process, and when that happens the outcome is never good

Step back from your Democratic Party perspective for a moment and think about what you just said which was in effect “it doesn’t matter only the losers don’t trust the system”

That is a really reckless and dangerous way to think

Everything your saying is correct.
Unfortunately all the talk of corruption is coming from one side.
What are THEY doing to try to instil confidence in their supporters that the next election will be open and transparent?

Surely after the party leadership has supported over 60 legal cases to try to prove wrongdoing and lost them all (often with the lawyers eventually having to stand up and say they have no evidence to present) then the wider party needs to stop and reconsider?
We're not talking about idiots here, a lot of those STILL pushing this agenda are individuals with a decent education and successful career.
However, very few of them are doing that.

So what is the solution for the GOP?

They could always get the FBI to investigate it...

[PRTVR]

HM-2 said:

rscott said:

HM-2 said:

PRTVR said:

As far as I am aware all were carried out without independent witnesses

Where on earth have you got this from?

Suggests he didn't read the link I posted - https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fox10phoenix.com/... - which makes it clear the audits were carried out by external companies.

A closet Trump supporter, not reading citations? Colour me surprised.

Not quite, by independent ( I agree a bad choice of words) I was referring to the normal procedure of allowing political parties to witness the audit, something that did not happen.

[HM-2]

PRTVR said:

Not quite, by independent ( I agree a bad choice of words) I was referring to the normal procedure of allowing political parties to witness the audit, something that did not happen.

That's not "normal" process during a forensic audit. In fact, it's the inverse of normal process to the point of going against the basic principal of avoiding external influences.

[pinchmeimdreamin]

PRTVR said:

Not quite, by independent ( I agree a bad choice of words) I was referring to the normal procedure of allowing political parties to witness the audit, something that did not happen.

So you want to see the Republicans version rather than the none partisan version ?

[PRTVR]

pinchmeimdreamin said:

PRTVR said:

Not quite, by independent ( I agree a bad choice of words) I was referring to the normal procedure of allowing political parties to witness the audit, something that did not happen.

So you want to see the Republicans version rather than the none partisan version ?

No, the rules are that any political party has a right to be present at the audit,

Personally I would make it compulsory, why would they not want to have them present?

Remember this situation could easily be the other way round and the Democrats could be the ones being denied their right to witness an Audit, and my view would have been the same.

[JeffreyD]

PRTVR said:

No, the rules are that any political party has a right to be present at the audit,

Personally I would make it compulsory, why would they not want to have them present?

Remember this situation could easily be the other way round and the Democrats could be the ones being denied their right to witness an Audit, and my view would have been the same.

Have you got an example of the rules?
Where are they written down?

[PRTVR]

JeffreyD said:

PRTVR said:

No, the rules are that any political party has a right to be present at the audit,

Personally I would make it compulsory, why would they not want to have them present?

Remember this situation could easily be the other way round and the Democrats could be the ones being denied their right to witness an Audit, and my view would have been the same.

Have you got an example of the rules?
Where are they written down?

Here is a spokesperson for the Republican party explaining there views.
https://youtu.be/hy3LRi2baXQ

Personally it appears logical, else you could just say the audit took place without any verification.

[JeffreyD]

PRTVR said:

Here is a spokesperson for the Republican party explaining there views.
https://youtu.be/hy3LRi2baXQ

Personally it appears logical, else you could just say the audit took place without any verification.

I managed 30 seconds and realised I DGAF anymore.

Trump and his supporters can just fk off. And I don't care if it was by fair means or foul.
And for the record, I think it was fair and that all this is just more cry baby bullst.

[anonymous-user]

JeffreyD said:

And I don't care if it was by fair means or foul.

Do you believe the ends justify the means?

[JeffreyD]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

JeffreyD said:

And I don't care if it was by fair means or foul.

Do you believe the ends justify the means?

I believe the election was fair. The evidence is truly overwhelming.
I am bored of people who can't assess what's out there.
I'm bored of the cry babies complaining it's not fair after listening to some loon on you tube and I'm bored of people gaslighting me about things like the Capitol Insurrection.

Trump is a liar and a truly horrible human.

fk him and fk those who support him.


Edited to add: after the way he has behaved I would piss my pants laughing if it was found his own party conspired against him to ensure he lost.

Edited by JeffreyD on Monday 1st March 23:30

[paulguitar]

JeffreyD said:

I believe the election was fair. The evidence is truly overwhelming.
I am bored of people who can't assess what's out there.
I'm bored of the cry babies complaining it's not fair after listening to some loon on you tube and I'm bored of people gaslighting me about things like the Capitol Insurrection.

Trump is a liar and a truly horrible human.

fk him and fk those who support him.

I can understand you getting to this point of frustration with the situation. trump's willing victims on the whole show no signs of responding to facts, evidence, and common sense. Those still supporting him now seem to be, in many cases, fully radicalized.

I'd thought after trump so convincingly lost the election that we were done with him and America could start the healing process. What's becoming clear is that, if the authorities do not remove him via a prosecution of one type or another, this freakshow is by no means over.

[rscott]

PRTVR said:

JeffreyD said:

PRTVR said:

No, the rules are that any political party has a right to be present at the audit,

Personally I would make it compulsory, why would they not want to have them present?

Remember this situation could easily be the other way round and the Democrats could be the ones being denied their right to witness an Audit, and my view would have been the same.

Have you got an example of the rules?
Where are they written down?

Here is a spokesperson for the Republican party explaining there views.
https://youtu.be/hy3LRi2baXQ

Personally it appears logical, else you could just say the audit took place without any verification.

The Maricopa County Board of Supervisors are mainly Republicans too and were nearly arrested by the Republican state Senate! https://eu.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/lauri...

Oh and a Republican tried to pass a bill in the state Senate giving the Senate power to overrule any election results and instead they could decide where the electoral college votes go - https://eu.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/lauri...

Are either of those actions of Republicans who want to ensure accurate elections? Seem more like desperate bids to override the will of the people and instead decide themselves who should get their vote.

Oh and the Republican state chair refuses to allow any audit of the November 2020 election for that very position, despite requests from members of her own party - https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/arizona-trump... . It would appear she's happy to claim Biden somehow cheated and insists on further audits to try to prove it, but refuses to allow exactly the same scrutiny of her own victory.

[AW111]

Don't forget Trump's motto : you can fool some of the people all of the time.

As this thread proves.

[PRTVR]

JeffreyD said:

PRTVR said:

Here is a spokesperson for the Republican party explaining there views.
https://youtu.be/hy3LRi2baXQ

Personally it appears logical, else you could just say the audit took place without any verification.

I managed 30 seconds and realised I DGAF anymore.

Trump and his supporters can just fk off. And I don't care if it was by fair means or foul.
And for the record, I think it was fair and that all this is just more cry baby bullst.

Well there you have it, it doesn't matter if it was legal,
but the point is now if it is acceptable what if the opposition starts doing it ?
Remember we are talking, about democracy here, one person one vote, do we just throw it in the bin ?

[PRTVR]

rscott said:

PRTVR said:

JeffreyD said:

PRTVR said:

No, the rules are that any political party has a right to be present at the audit,

Personally I would make it compulsory, why would they not want to have them present?

Remember this situation could easily be the other way round and the Democrats could be the ones being denied their right to witness an Audit, and my view would have been the same.

Have you got an example of the rules?
Where are they written down?

Here is a spokesperson for the Republican party explaining there views.
https://youtu.be/hy3LRi2baXQ

Personally it appears logical, else you could just say the audit took place without any verification.

The Maricopa County Board of Supervisors are mainly Republicans too and were nearly arrested by the Republican state Senate! https://eu.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/lauri...

Oh and a Republican tried to pass a bill in the state Senate giving the Senate power to overrule any election results and instead they could decide where the electoral college votes go - https://eu.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/lauri...

Are either of those actions of Republicans who want to ensure accurate elections? Seem more like desperate bids to override the will of the people and instead decide themselves who should get their vote.

Oh and the Republican state chair refuses to allow any audit of the November 2020 election for that very position, despite requests from members of her own party - https://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/news/arizona-trump... . It would appear she's happy to claim Biden somehow cheated and insists on further audits to try to prove it, but refuses to allow exactly the same scrutiny of her own victory.

But the fact remains that a full audit with representatives of both parties involved would decide who is correct,
I am not talking about a few votes here, there would have to be systematic fraud to cause concern.
The two party system will always cause polarisation,
I am sure the Democrats are equally willing to use whatever means possible to achieve there goal, that's just how it is.

[tangerine_sedge]

PRTVR said:

But the fact remains that a full audit with representatives of both parties involved would decide who is correct,
I am not talking about a few votes here, there would have to be systematic fraud to cause concern.
The two party system will always cause polarisation,
I am sure the Democrats are equally willing to use whatever means possible to achieve there goal, that's just how it is.

Horse-hockey! Every investigation so far has shown no fraud, other than the usual Republican voter supression. This ongoing narrative of fraud (just one more audit, but this time using 'our' vote riggers auditors) has been shown to be nonsense several times now, but it's pushed because it keeps the 'believers' enraged and keeps those $$$$'s rolling in for the Republican grifters.