46th President of the United States, Joe Biden

46th President of the United States, Joe Biden

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anonymous-user

54 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
Eric Mc said:
purplepenguin said:
Not keen on my enquiry idea then? Moon landing thing is just a poor deflection and doesn’t answer the question.
There is a link between all those who hold idiot conspiracy beliefs. If they believe one, there is a good chance they will believe many others.

How many enquiries do you want. There were over 60 at the last count.
It was only a suggestion - I don’t have a laika in this space capsule.

paulguitar

23,419 posts

113 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
purplepenguin said:
It was only a suggestion - I don’t have a laika in this space capsule.
But you continue to bang on about the need for an enquiry.

Why?



anonymous-user

54 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
paulguitar said:
purplepenguin said:
It was only a suggestion - I don’t have a laika in this space capsule.
But you continue to bang on about the need for an enquiry.

Why?
As previously mentioned - to give reassurance that the system is fair and to draw a line under it all.

It’s fine that you don’t agree - it was only a suggestion.

Flippin' Kipper

637 posts

179 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
purplepenguin said:
paulguitar said:
purplepenguin said:
It was only a suggestion - I don’t have a laika in this space capsule.
But you continue to bang on about the need for an enquiry.

Why?
As previously mentioned - to give reassurance that the system is fair and to draw a line under it all.

It’s fine that you don’t agree - it was only a suggestion.
And do you think Trump supporters would accept the results of such an enquiry?

paulguitar

23,419 posts

113 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
purplepenguin said:
As previously mentioned - to give reassurance that the system is fair and to draw a line under it all.

It’s fine that you don’t agree - it was only a suggestion.
You'd have to do it every single time the Democrats won.

If there is evidence, present it. Otherwise, can we please put an end to this nonsense?



anonymous-user

54 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
Flippin' Kipper said:
purplepenguin said:
paulguitar said:
purplepenguin said:
It was only a suggestion - I don’t have a laika in this space capsule.
But you continue to bang on about the need for an enquiry.

Why?
As previously mentioned - to give reassurance that the system is fair and to draw a line under it all.

It’s fine that you don’t agree - it was only a suggestion.
And do you think Trump supporters would accept the results of such an enquiry?
In the 70 odd million that voted for him, there must be some that are not completely rabid and just have some concerns with regard to the voting system - I think they would be reassured. ( maybe )

JeffreyD

6,155 posts

40 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Also worth noting Trump's vote in this election was what, the second highest ever, after Biden? It tells you Trump was not sufficiently unpopular that his vote collapsed and/or that enough people held their noses and voted for Trump to keep Biden out. Biden's mandate in the US is not as clear cut as enjoyed by the Conservatives over here, as his control has much finer margins. Here Boris can, within reason, bring in whatever he likes.

The message from the US election is that the US is split and the centre ground not as powerful as it ought to be. This needs careful handling, as dissatisfaction with the centre ground means people have to move further towards extremes, which doesn't typically end well.
I sort of agree with you but in US terms Biden is the ultimate "centre ground candidate" and he's just smashed it. But Trump is such a unique character I am not sure it's easy to draw conclusions.

It's interesting that Biden clearly won the popular vote and Johnson clearly didn't. Yet Johnson is totally dominant and his agenda is the only one that matters.
The same thing happened with Blair and Thatcher.


JeffreyD

6,155 posts

40 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
purplepenguin said:
Do you think they have a big effect on the “man on the Clapham omnibus” ? ( I don’t know - just asking)
Mahoosive.

valiant

10,222 posts

160 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
Do you think the republicans would have the same concerns about the legitimacy of the vote had Trump won?


AW111

9,674 posts

133 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
Flippin' Kipper said:
purplepenguin said:
Not keen on my enquiry idea then? Moon landing thing is just a poor deflection and doesn’t answer the question.
What's the point? If the enquiry found no evidence of fraud then Trump supporters would just dismiss it.
Like the 60 failed lawsuits, the various audits performed so far - there has been a total lack of any evidence of significant fraud, but the Trumpies keep crying for more enquiries and audits.

To make it even more bizarre, they have been crying "election fraud" with no evidence, and are now saying there needs to be more done because "people don't trust the result".

And why don't "people" trust the result? Because of all the baseless lies told by Trump and his stooges.

It's a win-win for the Republicans Trump party.

PRTVR

7,104 posts

221 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
Double Fault said:
PRTVR - do you actually believe the vote was rigged and Trump actually won??
I don't know, I find some things strange , the changes to the requirements for ballot papers, like no signature verification required in some states, that the rust belt voted for Biden with his anti fossil fuel stance, that some counties had a voter turn out of 80% when historically it's been under 40%,
Why maricopa supervisors agreed to an audit, then proceed to put multiple blocks in the way, it really gives the impression that they have something to hide.
we only have to mention tower hamlets and postal ballots to understand the problems inherent in the system.


Vanden Saab

14,084 posts

74 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
paulguitar said:
purplepenguin said:
As previously mentioned - to give reassurance that the system is fair and to draw a line under it all.

It’s fine that you don’t agree - it was only a suggestion.
You'd have to do it every single time the Democratsanybody won.

If there is evidence, present it. Otherwise, can we please put an end to this nonsense?

FTFY
Or are you seriously suggesting that the Democrats or anybody posting in the Trump thread for the last 4 years actually accepted the Trump victory and did not suggest it was rigged because you know, it is all there in black and white.

anonymous-user

54 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
JeffreyD said:
I sort of agree with you but in US terms Biden is the ultimate "centre ground candidate" and he's just smashed it. But Trump is such a unique character I am not sure it's easy to draw conclusions.

It's interesting that Biden clearly won the popular vote and Johnson clearly didn't. Yet Johnson is totally dominant and his agenda is the only one that matters.
The same thing happened with Blair and Thatcher.
A couple of points; I wouldn't necessarily agree Biden is centre ground in the same way as, say Obama or Clinton were.

I'd also disagree that Johnson failed to win the popular vote; he polled 13m votes to Corbyn's 10m. Johnson achieved 136% of his nearest rival's vote, Biden just 109% of Trumps.

JeffreyD

6,155 posts

40 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
Vanden Saab said:
FTFY
Or are you seriously suggesting that the Democrats or anybody posting in the Trump thread for the last 4 years actually accepted the Trump victory and did not suggest it was rigged because you know, it is all there in black and white.
Look at how Obama acted during the transition. It's even been acknowledged by Trump.

That's a fairly fundamental difference.

Edited to add: I'd also say the accusations of Russian interference and collusion are fundamentally different to the outright denial of the result by one of the candidates. Not to mention the violence to interfere with the process.


Edited by JeffreyD on Tuesday 2nd March 12:15

Double Fault

1,246 posts

263 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
PRTVR said:
Double Fault said:
PRTVR - do you actually believe the vote was rigged and Trump actually won??
I don't know, I find some things strange , the changes to the requirements for ballot papers, like no signature verification required in some states, that the rust belt voted for Biden with his anti fossil fuel stance, that some counties had a voter turn out of 80% when historically it's been under 40%,
Why maricopa supervisors agreed to an audit, then proceed to put multiple blocks in the way, it really gives the impression that they have something to hide.
we only have to mention tower hamlets and postal ballots to understand the problems inherent in the system.
That's all been done, and 60+ cases thrown/laughed out of court. I'm sure the above points have been debunked many times before.

The level of conspiracy that would be required to do this and HIDE it is beyond comprehension. Try and actually think about how all this would actually be orchestrated, the practical aspects of it, how many people and organisations would have to be involved, etc. And then keep it a secret! No chance.

Eric Mc

122,031 posts

265 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
purplepenguin said:
It was only a suggestion - I don’t have a laika in this space capsule.
I sometimes wonder if Trump fans are deranged. Keep going - you're rapidly helping me come to a conclusion.

hidetheelephants

24,352 posts

193 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
JeffreyD said:
I find it fascinating that Biden won the most popular vote by a country mile and that the overall turnout was a record - much to be learned by this.
Also worth noting Trump's vote in this election was what, the second highest ever, after Biden? It tells you Trump was not sufficiently unpopular that his vote collapsed and/or that enough people held their noses and voted for Trump to keep Biden out. Biden's mandate in the US is not as clear cut as enjoyed by the Conservatives over here, as his control has much finer margins. Here Boris can, within reason, bring in whatever he likes.

The message from the US election is that the US is split and the centre ground not as powerful as it ought to be. This needs careful handling, as dissatisfaction with the centre ground means people have to move further towards extremes, which doesn't typically end well.
Good job the relief bill has popular support of over 60% then, which begs the question of why republicans are choosing this hill to die on.

Flippin' Kipper said:
purplepenguin said:
paulguitar said:
purplepenguin said:
It was only a suggestion - I don’t have a laika in this space capsule.
But you continue to bang on about the need for an enquiry.

Why?
As previously mentioned - to give reassurance that the system is fair and to draw a line under it all.

It’s fine that you don’t agree - it was only a suggestion.
And do you think Trump supporters would accept the results of such an enquiry?
No, any such enquiry is a waste of time and money as those who believe there was massive fraud will not believe anything the govt tell them, only what they're told by Trump and sweaty loons on youtube. They've gone fully down the rabbithole; never go full rabbithole, kids.

rscott

14,758 posts

191 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
PRTVR said:
Double Fault said:
PRTVR - do you actually believe the vote was rigged and Trump actually won??
I don't know, I find some things strange , the changes to the requirements for ballot papers, like no signature verification required in some states, that the rust belt voted for Biden with his anti fossil fuel stance, that some counties had a voter turn out of 80% when historically it's been under 40%,
Why maricopa supervisors agreed to an audit, then proceed to put multiple blocks in the way, it really gives the impression that they have something to hide.
we only have to mention tower hamlets and postal ballots to understand the problems inherent in the system.
How did Biden win in the rust belt? A good explanation here - https://hbr.org/2020/11/how-biden-won-back-enough-... . He highlighted Trump's failure to deliver the promised jobs in those areas and set out his alternative approach (mainly around tax incentives to encourage investment within the US).

The Maricopa Board of Supervisors is made up of 5 elected officials:-
Jack Sellers - Republican
Steve Chucri - Republican
Bill Gates - Republican
Clint Hickman - Republican
Steve Gallardo - Democrat

Why would they want to hide any wrongdoing which meant their party lost?


When Republican state senators in Arizona are introducing multiple bills to supposedly make voting more secure, yet don't have any evidence that there were any problems in the first place and that the changes will disproportionately affect those who tend to vote Democrat, it's hard to take any of their claims about wanting fair elections seriously.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/voting-rights-ad...
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-re...
https://publicintegrity.org/politics/elections/us-...


Yes, there have been a few isolated cases of postal vote fraud, mainly by Republicans, in the last US elections, but zero evidence of any large scale efforts which might affect the results.

JeffreyD

6,155 posts

40 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
A couple of points; I wouldn't necessarily agree Biden is centre ground in the same way as, say Obama or Clinton were.

I'd also disagree that Johnson failed to win the popular vote; he polled 13m votes to Corbyn's 10m. Johnson achieved 136% of his nearest rival's vote, Biden just 109% of Trumps.
1. Fair enough but he isn't a firebrand lefty who entered the election on a radical platform.

2. I should have stated "didn't win a majority of the popular vote"
You may as well just use the number of seats as the measure - Johnson smashed it despite having less people vote for him than voted for other parties. I think he got 44% of the vote. Yet his control of the agenda is complete, even in 3 entire countries that didn't vote for him or his party. That's the system we have and I can't see it changing any time soon.

PRTVR

7,104 posts

221 months

Tuesday 2nd March 2021
quotequote all
Double Fault said:
PRTVR said:
Double Fault said:
PRTVR - do you actually believe the vote was rigged and Trump actually won??
I don't know, I find some things strange , the changes to the requirements for ballot papers, like no signature verification required in some states, that the rust belt voted for Biden with his anti fossil fuel stance, that some counties had a voter turn out of 80% when historically it's been under 40%,
Why maricopa supervisors agreed to an audit, then proceed to put multiple blocks in the way, it really gives the impression that they have something to hide.
we only have to mention tower hamlets and postal ballots to understand the problems inherent in the system.
That's all been done, and 60+ cases thrown/laughed out of court. I'm sure the above points have been debunked many times before.

The level of conspiracy that would be required to do this and HIDE it is beyond comprehension. Try and actually think about how all this would actually be orchestrated, the practical aspects of it, how many people and organisations would have to be involved, etc. And then keep it a secret! No chance.
How could they be debunked?
The Things I have listed are all verifiable, feel free to debunk them.
There is no need for Conspiracies , by changing the laws regarding signatures people dealing with election are only following instructions.

I have to say following the elections has opened a completely different view on Americans, there is no middle ground out there, society really is polarised , made worse with a person like Trump involved.