46th President of the United States, Joe Biden
Discussion
Eric Mc said:
purplepenguin said:
Not keen on my enquiry idea then? Moon landing thing is just a poor deflection and doesn’t answer the question.
There is a link between all those who hold idiot conspiracy beliefs. If they believe one, there is a good chance they will believe many others.How many enquiries do you want. There were over 60 at the last count.
paulguitar said:
purplepenguin said:
It was only a suggestion - I don’t have a laika in this space capsule.
But you continue to bang on about the need for an enquiry.Why?
It’s fine that you don’t agree - it was only a suggestion.
purplepenguin said:
paulguitar said:
purplepenguin said:
It was only a suggestion - I don’t have a laika in this space capsule.
But you continue to bang on about the need for an enquiry.Why?
It’s fine that you don’t agree - it was only a suggestion.
purplepenguin said:
As previously mentioned - to give reassurance that the system is fair and to draw a line under it all.
It’s fine that you don’t agree - it was only a suggestion.
You'd have to do it every single time the Democrats won.It’s fine that you don’t agree - it was only a suggestion.
If there is evidence, present it. Otherwise, can we please put an end to this nonsense?
Flippin' Kipper said:
purplepenguin said:
paulguitar said:
purplepenguin said:
It was only a suggestion - I don’t have a laika in this space capsule.
But you continue to bang on about the need for an enquiry.Why?
It’s fine that you don’t agree - it was only a suggestion.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Also worth noting Trump's vote in this election was what, the second highest ever, after Biden? It tells you Trump was not sufficiently unpopular that his vote collapsed and/or that enough people held their noses and voted for Trump to keep Biden out. Biden's mandate in the US is not as clear cut as enjoyed by the Conservatives over here, as his control has much finer margins. Here Boris can, within reason, bring in whatever he likes.
The message from the US election is that the US is split and the centre ground not as powerful as it ought to be. This needs careful handling, as dissatisfaction with the centre ground means people have to move further towards extremes, which doesn't typically end well.
I sort of agree with you but in US terms Biden is the ultimate "centre ground candidate" and he's just smashed it. But Trump is such a unique character I am not sure it's easy to draw conclusions.The message from the US election is that the US is split and the centre ground not as powerful as it ought to be. This needs careful handling, as dissatisfaction with the centre ground means people have to move further towards extremes, which doesn't typically end well.
It's interesting that Biden clearly won the popular vote and Johnson clearly didn't. Yet Johnson is totally dominant and his agenda is the only one that matters.
The same thing happened with Blair and Thatcher.
Flippin' Kipper said:
purplepenguin said:
Not keen on my enquiry idea then? Moon landing thing is just a poor deflection and doesn’t answer the question.
What's the point? If the enquiry found no evidence of fraud then Trump supporters would just dismiss it.To make it even more bizarre, they have been crying "election fraud" with no evidence, and are now saying there needs to be more done because "people don't trust the result".
And why don't "people" trust the result? Because of all the baseless lies told by Trump and his stooges.
It's a win-win for the
Double Fault said:
PRTVR - do you actually believe the vote was rigged and Trump actually won??
I don't know, I find some things strange , the changes to the requirements for ballot papers, like no signature verification required in some states, that the rust belt voted for Biden with his anti fossil fuel stance, that some counties had a voter turn out of 80% when historically it's been under 40%,Why maricopa supervisors agreed to an audit, then proceed to put multiple blocks in the way, it really gives the impression that they have something to hide.
we only have to mention tower hamlets and postal ballots to understand the problems inherent in the system.
paulguitar said:
purplepenguin said:
As previously mentioned - to give reassurance that the system is fair and to draw a line under it all.
It’s fine that you don’t agree - it was only a suggestion.
You'd have to do it every single timeIt’s fine that you don’t agree - it was only a suggestion.
If there is evidence, present it. Otherwise, can we please put an end to this nonsense?
Or are you seriously suggesting that the Democrats or anybody posting in the Trump thread for the last 4 years actually accepted the Trump victory and did not suggest it was rigged because you know, it is all there in black and white.
JeffreyD said:
I sort of agree with you but in US terms Biden is the ultimate "centre ground candidate" and he's just smashed it. But Trump is such a unique character I am not sure it's easy to draw conclusions.
It's interesting that Biden clearly won the popular vote and Johnson clearly didn't. Yet Johnson is totally dominant and his agenda is the only one that matters.
The same thing happened with Blair and Thatcher.
A couple of points; I wouldn't necessarily agree Biden is centre ground in the same way as, say Obama or Clinton were.It's interesting that Biden clearly won the popular vote and Johnson clearly didn't. Yet Johnson is totally dominant and his agenda is the only one that matters.
The same thing happened with Blair and Thatcher.
I'd also disagree that Johnson failed to win the popular vote; he polled 13m votes to Corbyn's 10m. Johnson achieved 136% of his nearest rival's vote, Biden just 109% of Trumps.
Vanden Saab said:
FTFY
Or are you seriously suggesting that the Democrats or anybody posting in the Trump thread for the last 4 years actually accepted the Trump victory and did not suggest it was rigged because you know, it is all there in black and white.
Look at how Obama acted during the transition. It's even been acknowledged by Trump.Or are you seriously suggesting that the Democrats or anybody posting in the Trump thread for the last 4 years actually accepted the Trump victory and did not suggest it was rigged because you know, it is all there in black and white.
That's a fairly fundamental difference.
Edited to add: I'd also say the accusations of Russian interference and collusion are fundamentally different to the outright denial of the result by one of the candidates. Not to mention the violence to interfere with the process.
Edited by JeffreyD on Tuesday 2nd March 12:15
PRTVR said:
Double Fault said:
PRTVR - do you actually believe the vote was rigged and Trump actually won??
I don't know, I find some things strange , the changes to the requirements for ballot papers, like no signature verification required in some states, that the rust belt voted for Biden with his anti fossil fuel stance, that some counties had a voter turn out of 80% when historically it's been under 40%,Why maricopa supervisors agreed to an audit, then proceed to put multiple blocks in the way, it really gives the impression that they have something to hide.
we only have to mention tower hamlets and postal ballots to understand the problems inherent in the system.
The level of conspiracy that would be required to do this and HIDE it is beyond comprehension. Try and actually think about how all this would actually be orchestrated, the practical aspects of it, how many people and organisations would have to be involved, etc. And then keep it a secret! No chance.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
JeffreyD said:
I find it fascinating that Biden won the most popular vote by a country mile and that the overall turnout was a record - much to be learned by this.
Also worth noting Trump's vote in this election was what, the second highest ever, after Biden? It tells you Trump was not sufficiently unpopular that his vote collapsed and/or that enough people held their noses and voted for Trump to keep Biden out. Biden's mandate in the US is not as clear cut as enjoyed by the Conservatives over here, as his control has much finer margins. Here Boris can, within reason, bring in whatever he likes.The message from the US election is that the US is split and the centre ground not as powerful as it ought to be. This needs careful handling, as dissatisfaction with the centre ground means people have to move further towards extremes, which doesn't typically end well.
Flippin' Kipper said:
purplepenguin said:
paulguitar said:
purplepenguin said:
It was only a suggestion - I don’t have a laika in this space capsule.
But you continue to bang on about the need for an enquiry.Why?
It’s fine that you don’t agree - it was only a suggestion.
PRTVR said:
Double Fault said:
PRTVR - do you actually believe the vote was rigged and Trump actually won??
I don't know, I find some things strange , the changes to the requirements for ballot papers, like no signature verification required in some states, that the rust belt voted for Biden with his anti fossil fuel stance, that some counties had a voter turn out of 80% when historically it's been under 40%,Why maricopa supervisors agreed to an audit, then proceed to put multiple blocks in the way, it really gives the impression that they have something to hide.
we only have to mention tower hamlets and postal ballots to understand the problems inherent in the system.
The Maricopa Board of Supervisors is made up of 5 elected officials:-
Jack Sellers - Republican
Steve Chucri - Republican
Bill Gates - Republican
Clint Hickman - Republican
Steve Gallardo - Democrat
Why would they want to hide any wrongdoing which meant their party lost?
When Republican state senators in Arizona are introducing multiple bills to supposedly make voting more secure, yet don't have any evidence that there were any problems in the first place and that the changes will disproportionately affect those who tend to vote Democrat, it's hard to take any of their claims about wanting fair elections seriously.
https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/voting-rights-ad...
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-re...
https://publicintegrity.org/politics/elections/us-...
Yes, there have been a few isolated cases of postal vote fraud, mainly by Republicans, in the last US elections, but zero evidence of any large scale efforts which might affect the results.
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
A couple of points; I wouldn't necessarily agree Biden is centre ground in the same way as, say Obama or Clinton were.
I'd also disagree that Johnson failed to win the popular vote; he polled 13m votes to Corbyn's 10m. Johnson achieved 136% of his nearest rival's vote, Biden just 109% of Trumps.
1. Fair enough but he isn't a firebrand lefty who entered the election on a radical platform.I'd also disagree that Johnson failed to win the popular vote; he polled 13m votes to Corbyn's 10m. Johnson achieved 136% of his nearest rival's vote, Biden just 109% of Trumps.
2. I should have stated "didn't win a majority of the popular vote"
You may as well just use the number of seats as the measure - Johnson smashed it despite having less people vote for him than voted for other parties. I think he got 44% of the vote. Yet his control of the agenda is complete, even in 3 entire countries that didn't vote for him or his party. That's the system we have and I can't see it changing any time soon.
Double Fault said:
PRTVR said:
Double Fault said:
PRTVR - do you actually believe the vote was rigged and Trump actually won??
I don't know, I find some things strange , the changes to the requirements for ballot papers, like no signature verification required in some states, that the rust belt voted for Biden with his anti fossil fuel stance, that some counties had a voter turn out of 80% when historically it's been under 40%,Why maricopa supervisors agreed to an audit, then proceed to put multiple blocks in the way, it really gives the impression that they have something to hide.
we only have to mention tower hamlets and postal ballots to understand the problems inherent in the system.
The level of conspiracy that would be required to do this and HIDE it is beyond comprehension. Try and actually think about how all this would actually be orchestrated, the practical aspects of it, how many people and organisations would have to be involved, etc. And then keep it a secret! No chance.
The Things I have listed are all verifiable, feel free to debunk them.
There is no need for Conspiracies , by changing the laws regarding signatures people dealing with election are only following instructions.
I have to say following the elections has opened a completely different view on Americans, there is no middle ground out there, society really is polarised , made worse with a person like Trump involved.
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