Taking the knee

[chrispmartha]

survivalist said:

chrispmartha said:

ddom said:

Exactly.

Those examples?

can’t hear it for some reason ..

[Tony427]

Well it appears that the Scotland team will be "standing up to racism" so no knee taking from them.

Anyone else kneeling?

Southgate and the FA have completely fked it up haven't they?

[105.4]

chrispmartha said:

No I’m not. You keep saying im trying to find racism, you’re reading that because you want to.

I’m pointing out the logic fail in some people’s arguments on here not calling them racist.

Do i think some of the booers at the football were racist, yes, football has a bit of an issue with racism unfortunately.

But I’m not calling anyone on here racist so stop trying to insinuate that I am.

But you are repeatedly saying is that those that booed the players kneeling are all racist.

I’ve no doubt that some are to one degree or another, but it’s also highly likely that there are a number of different reasons why those that booed actually did so.

[jimPH]

williamp said:

chrispmartha said:

survivalist said:

633Squadron said:

Religion + Sport And/ Or Politics + Sport = A combination to be avoided.

Does anyone think that a racist is going to watch some random footballers get some grass stains on their knee and have an epiphany that tomorrow he/she must behave less racist?

You make a good point.

It seems to me that issues such as racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia etc are actually less of an issue than they have ever been.
.

Just on this, hate crime figures are on an upward trend and have been for around a decade now, (transphobia and antisemitism in particular) I think I read they have doubled since 2012 or 2013.

Id say it seems better than when i was growing up 80’s/90’s but it does appear to be getting steadily worse.

Hate crime wasnt a crime 10 years ago....

It has a worrying creeping brief, too. Social media is toxic. The police treating it as gospel doesnt help

It doesn't help when people are now being brought up to see more racism. My wife now sees racism everytime she gets into a disagreement with someone, security guard at the supermarket checks her receipt, racism. Old man didn't give up his seat on the bus to the pregnant woman with a pram, racist. BLMUK even think covid is racist according to their fund me site.

With the good work BLM is doing at victimising the oppressed, labeling normal working class white people as supremacists and oppressors with inherent racial biases, there's only one way for racial crimes to go.

[chrispmartha]

105.4 said:

chrispmartha said:

No I’m not. You keep saying im trying to find racism, you’re reading that because you want to.

I’m pointing out the logic fail in some people’s arguments on here not calling them racist.

Do i think some of the booers at the football were racist, yes, football has a bit of an issue with racism unfortunately.

But I’m not calling anyone on here racist so stop trying to insinuate that I am.

But you are repeatedly saying is that those that booed the players kneeling are all racist.

I’ve no doubt that some are to one degree or another, but it’s also highly likely that there are a number of different reasons why those that booed actually did so.

FFS, if you actually read whats written (its even in the post you actually quote)rather than what you want to see you would see that what you have just written is exactly what I have been saying.

I’ve never said they are ALL racist I’ve said some will be and the ones booing will have had different reasons for doing so.

Edited by chrispmartha on Friday 11th June 07:14

[JNW1]

chrispmartha said:

rscott said:

So more like the approach of F1? They're using a simple "End Racism" slogan and drivers can choose to stand or kneel as they see fit.

This is what they do in Rugby League, and some players kneel, no one boos, but, why wouldn’t the booers at the football boo the kneelers in that instance though if kneeling is a sign of supporting BLM?

I agree there's a danger of booing at football if anyone takes the knee and (IMO) that's because of the BLM connection. However, if teams adopted the same approach as, for example, Scotland are proposing in the forthcoming Euros I think it would be different; any booing against something like Stand up to Racism would be seen for what it is and almost certainly condemned by the vast majority in the ground.

[Vanden Saab]

chrispmartha said:

105.4 said:

chrispmartha said:

No I’m not. You keep saying im trying to find racism, you’re reading that because you want to.

I’m pointing out the logic fail in some people’s arguments on here not calling them racist.

Do i think some of the booers at the football were racist, yes, football has a bit of an issue with racism unfortunately.

But I’m not calling anyone on here racist so stop trying to insinuate that I am.

But you are repeatedly saying is that those that booed the players kneeling are all racist.

I’ve no doubt that some are to one degree or another, but it’s also highly likely that there are a number of different reasons why those that booed actually did so.

FFS, if you actually read whats written (its even in the post you actually quote)rather than what you want to see you would see that what you have just written is exactly what I have been saying.

I’ve never said they are ALL racist I’ve said some will be and the ones booing will have had different reasons for doing so.

Edited by chrispmartha on Friday 11th June 07:14

But all racists will be booing, eh. Chris...Well apart from the black racists anyway... they will be cheering and clapping when the players kneel.

[chrispmartha]

Vanden Saab said:

chrispmartha said:

105.4 said:

chrispmartha said:

No I’m not. You keep saying im trying to find racism, you’re reading that because you want to.

I’m pointing out the logic fail in some people’s arguments on here not calling them racist.

Do i think some of the booers at the football were racist, yes, football has a bit of an issue with racism unfortunately.

But I’m not calling anyone on here racist so stop trying to insinuate that I am.

But you are repeatedly saying is that those that booed the players kneeling are all racist.

I’ve no doubt that some are to one degree or another, but it’s also highly likely that there are a number of different reasons why those that booed actually did so.

FFS, if you actually read whats written (its even in the post you actually quote)rather than what you want to see you would see that what you have just written is exactly what I have been saying.

I’ve never said they are ALL racist I’ve said some will be and the ones booing will have had different reasons for doing so.

Edited by chrispmartha on Friday 11th June 07:14

But all racists will be booing, eh. Chris...Well apart from the black racists anyway... they will be cheering and clapping when the players kneel.

What on earth you you on about?

There may well have been some black people booing.

[Vanden Saab]

chrispmartha said:

Vanden Saab said:

chrispmartha said:

105.4 said:

chrispmartha said:

No I’m not. You keep saying im trying to find racism, you’re reading that because you want to.

I’m pointing out the logic fail in some people’s arguments on here not calling them racist.

Do i think some of the booers at the football were racist, yes, football has a bit of an issue with racism unfortunately.

But I’m not calling anyone on here racist so stop trying to insinuate that I am.

But you are repeatedly saying is that those that booed the players kneeling are all racist.

I’ve no doubt that some are to one degree or another, but it’s also highly likely that there are a number of different reasons why those that booed actually did so.

FFS, if you actually read whats written (its even in the post you actually quote)rather than what you want to see you would see that what you have just written is exactly what I have been saying.

I’ve never said they are ALL racist I’ve said some will be and the ones booing will have had different reasons for doing so.

Edited by chrispmartha on Friday 11th June 07:14

But all racists will be booing, eh. Chris...Well apart from the black racists anyway... they will be cheering and clapping when the players kneel.

What on earth you you on about?

There may well have been some black people booing.

Finally we get there....Well if you actually think about what you have just written...

[tangerine_sedge]

Cliffe60 said:

Given we are now into 58 pages, it’s pretty obvious than taking the knee is doing nothing for racial harmony or respect.

no, it's just demonstrating the number of anti-anti-racists we have on PH.

[chrispmartha]

Vanden Saab said:

Finally we get there....Well if you actually think about what you have just written...

What I’ve actually written or what you think I’ve written.

[105.4]

chrispmartha said:

105.4 said:

chrispmartha said:

No I’m not. You keep saying im trying to find racism, you’re reading that because you want to.

I’m pointing out the logic fail in some people’s arguments on here not calling them racist.

Do i think some of the booers at the football were racist, yes, football has a bit of an issue with racism unfortunately.

But I’m not calling anyone on here racist so stop trying to insinuate that I am.

But you are repeatedly saying is that those that booed the players kneeling are all racist.

I’ve no doubt that some are to one degree or another, but it’s also highly likely that there are a number of different reasons why those that booed actually did so.

FFS, if you actually read whats written (its even in the post you actually quote)rather than what you want to see you would see that what you have just written is exactly what I have been saying.

I’ve never said they are ALL racist I’ve said some will be and the ones booing will have had different reasons for doing so.

Edited by chrispmartha on Friday 11th June 07:14

I can’t be bothered to go back through nearly 60 pages to find examples, but yes, booing = racist is a claim you’ve made more than once.

[chrispmartha]

105.4 said:

I can’t be bothered to go back through nearly 60 pages to find examples, but yes, booing = racist is a claim you’ve made more than once.

No it isn’t.

Just back up what you’re saying or go read what I’ve written.

If I claimed you’d written something racist, would you be happy with a response of ‘I can’t be bothered to back it up’

Of course you wouldn’t

[Supercilious Sid]

tangerine_sedge said:

Cliffe60 said:

Given we are now into 58 pages, it’s pretty obvious than taking the knee is doing nothing for racial harmony or respect.

no, it's just demonstrating the number of anti-anti-racists we have on PH.

No, it is demonstrating how some tankies on here regard finding real or imagined, 'racism' as a religion. Upset that their demand for it outstrips supply, they are obsessively arguing with who they see as heretics and non-believers.

[ChocolateFrog]

Tony427 said:

Well it appears that the Scotland team will be "standing up to racism" so no knee taking from them.

Anyone else kneeling?

Southgate and the FA have completely fked it up haven't they?

They've backed themselves into a corner.

I assume they thought that where they lead everyone else would follow. Now that's proving not to be be case it's going to make the whole Charade even more of a car crash to watch.

[ATG]

survivalist said:

I see your point. But if a group of people, supported or motivated by a professional organisation, decide to take a gesture that the majority of people associate with particular political movement, should they not consider all aspects of the political movement?

It’s a bit like saying that I joined the KKK/Nazis/BNP for the barbecues and bingo evenings - no one told me they stood for an extreme politics agenda.

But BLM is not a political movement and it's simply wrong to think that most people see it as a political movement. The Nazis were highly organised, the BNP tried to be organised as did the KKK. They all had clear political agendas.

BLM is a slogan, not an organisation. It is a portmanteau for a load of grass roots groups who occasionally come together at a protest.

If you wandered up to a member of the Nazis and said "who's your leader?", they'd give you the tautological answer "the Fuhrer!", but you'd get the point. If you asked a member of the Conservative or Labour party "who's your leader?", some of them might cry for a while, or mumble the answer under the breath out of embarrassment, but they'd eventually admit it was Boris or Starmer.

If you asked someone in a BLM T-shirt "who's your leader?" they'd look confused and ask what you meant because to the bloke in the T-shirt it is not an organisation with a leadership in the first place.

[ATG]

ChocolateFrog said:

Tony427 said:

Well it appears that the Scotland team will be "standing up to racism" so no knee taking from them.

Anyone else kneeling?

Southgate and the FA have completely fked it up haven't they?

They've backed themselves into a corner.

I assume they thought that where they lead everyone else would follow. Now that's proving not to be be case it's going to make the whole Charade even more of a car crash to watch.

But is that how most people actually see it?

Government are now supporting them. Southgate is taking the refreshingly straightforward stance of telling the media that he is not going to talk about this bks any more because it is a non-issue. This is 90% a silly-season story stirred up a bit by the Press. As far as I can see, most people couldn't care less one way or the other. If a few fans are offended by it, I could not care less, except that their antics send a stty message.

From what I can see, the people who are getting exercised about this are the usual group of professionally offended types who feel threatened by anything that could in any elliptical way be construed as an indirect criticism of them, their way of life, and the things they're comfortable with.

[Jinx]

ATG said:

But BLM is not a political movement and it's simply wrong to think that most people see it as a political movement. The Nazis were highly organised, the BNP tried to be organised as did the KKK. They all had clear political agendas.

BLM is a slogan, not an organisation. It is a portmanteau for a load of grass roots groups who occasionally come together at a protest.

If you wandered up to a member of the Nazis and said "who's your leader?", they'd give you the tautological answer "the Fuhrer!", but you'd get the point. If you asked a member of the Conservative or Labour party "who's your leader?", some of them might cry for a while, or mumble the answer under the breath out of embarrassment, but they'd eventually admit it was Boris or Starmer.

If you asked someone in a BLM T-shirt "who's your leader?" they'd look confused and ask what you meant because to the bloke in the T-shirt it is not an organisation with a leadership in the first place.

So a clandestine cell system then (note: this is not a good association to make) .

[Beati Dogu]

This kneeling nonsense was never going to survive once crowds were let back in to stadia again. People don't take kindly to moronic virtue signalling by a bunch of pampered millionaires.

Edited by Beati Dogu on Friday 11th June 10:33

[survivalist]

ATG said:

survivalist said:

I see your point. But if a group of people, supported or motivated by a professional organisation, decide to take a gesture that the majority of people associate with particular political movement, should they not consider all aspects of the political movement?

It’s a bit like saying that I joined the KKK/Nazis/BNP for the barbecues and bingo evenings - no one told me they stood for an extreme politics agenda.

But BLM is not a political movement and it's simply wrong to think that most people see it as a political movement. The Nazis were highly organised, the BNP tried to be organised as did the KKK. They all had clear political agendas.

BLM is a slogan, not an organisation. It is a portmanteau for a load of grass roots groups who occasionally come together at a protest.

If you wandered up to a member of the Nazis and said "who's your leader?", they'd give you the tautological answer "the Fuhrer!", but you'd get the point. If you asked a member of the Conservative or Labour party "who's your leader?", some of them might cry for a while, or mumble the answer under the breath out of embarrassment, but they'd eventually admit it was Boris or Starmer.

If you asked someone in a BLM T-shirt "who's your leader?" they'd look confused and ask what you meant because to the bloke in the T-shirt it is not an organisation with a leadership in the first place.

Just because it's decentralised doesn't mean it's not an organisation. It does make it easier for an individual to claim they only support the positive aspects though