Taking the knee
Discussion
Randy Winkman said:
Exactly. I don't think they were booing Marxism.
On the other hand, I do think it was convenient for the FA the way that CV19 matched with the BLM thing in relation to football. It means there have been months of "taking the knee" before the inevitable booing started. It wont work at all with fans in the grounds. But then again I think they should have stopped it at the beginning of this season. It's just a gesture now.
The FA is on the ropes right now and paranoid about being seen as ‘out of touch’ or ‘racist’ so they wouldn’t have dared try and stop this before now, but agreed, it seems inappropriate now and to have served whatever purpose it was meant to serve quite early on as a gesture of support etc.On the other hand, I do think it was convenient for the FA the way that CV19 matched with the BLM thing in relation to football. It means there have been months of "taking the knee" before the inevitable booing started. It wont work at all with fans in the grounds. But then again I think they should have stopped it at the beginning of this season. It's just a gesture now.
230TE said:
I largely agree with that, but it makes the condemnation of racism a lot easier if the message isn't tangled up with a load of extremist political crap from a group that always seems to innocently and peacefully end up throwing Molotov cocktails at the police and looting Nike stores. BLM (the movement) are a bunch of utter throbbers who do not deserve even 5% of the attention they are getting from politicians, slebs, business leaders and other grown-ups who should know better. Marcus Rashford, we have a job for you.
I don't think the people who went to London to "protect statues" represented themselves very well either.Violence and smashing s
t up is the same whoever is doing it.Honestly I don't think the booing yesterday was from people who were giving much thought to marxism and political movements.
Condemning racism should be easy unless they don't like black people.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I don't think the people who went to London to "protect statues" represented themselves very well either.
Violence and smashing st up is the same whoever is doing it.
Honestly I don't think the booing yesterday was from people who were giving much thought to marxism and political movements.
Condemning racism should be easy unless they don't like black people.
Absolutely, the trick is how you isolate and marginalise the racists without turning them into victims. We live in a society where everyone wants to be a victim: adopting the BLM brand and gesture just makes it easier for the racists to talk about political correctness gone mad. It's not an easy problem to solve, otherwise it would have been solved by now. There's no lack of will to end racism, at least among people with an IQ higher than that of a cauliflower. You can see BLM as an off-the-shelf solution that has been picked up by large organisations because it is ready to go. Unfortunately BLM is like the Chinese cordless impact gun I bought: it's crap, deceptively advertised and doesn't work.Violence and smashing s
t up is the same whoever is doing it.Honestly I don't think the booing yesterday was from people who were giving much thought to marxism and political movements.
Condemning racism should be easy unless they don't like black people.
230TE said:
Absolutely, the trick is how you isolate and marginalise the racists without turning them into victims. We live in a society where everyone wants to be a victim: adopting the BLM brand and gesture just makes it easier for the racists to talk about political correctness gone mad. It's not an easy problem to solve, otherwise it would have been solved by now. There's no lack of will to end racism, at least among people with an IQ higher than that of a cauliflower. You can see BLM as an off-the-shelf solution that has been picked up by large organisations because it is ready to go. Unfortunately BLM is like the Chinese cordless impact gun I bought: it's crap, deceptively advertised and doesn't work.
You (not you personally) call it what it is and you don't try and pretend it was somehow justified because people can't separate a message from an organisation.George Eustice seemed to struggle with that concept on Sophy Ridge this morning.
https://twitter.com/RidgeOnSunday/status/133551473...
When ministers can't make that separation or bring themselves to call this stuff out we have a lot of work to do.
Whether anyone thinks the kneeling or booing is right or wrong is pretty immaterial really, I don't know what sort of crowd Milwall get each week but I can't imagine they have a waiting list like Man Utd for season tickets but what the players seem to have done is ps off a lot of their support that have had nearly 12 months to find something else to do on a Saturday afternoon by bringing politics into sport.
s off a lot of their support that have had nearly 12 months to find something else to do on a Saturday afternoon by bringing politics into sport.I think the FA, and Sky, have fallen into an obvious trap. They've allowed themselves to become supporters of a mixed message.
Namely: "Black Lives Matter" rather than black lives matter. It's not grammar pedantry, it's the confusion about whether they are endorsing a political organisation that would (for instance) defund the police, or whether they are opposing racism.
So, why not have a short pause before each game to promote a message like "no room for racism" for example? And none of this taking the knee nonsense - that belongs firmly in American culture, not ours, unless you're being knighted by Her Majesty or something.
Namely: "Black Lives Matter" rather than black lives matter. It's not grammar pedantry, it's the confusion about whether they are endorsing a political organisation that would (for instance) defund the police, or whether they are opposing racism.
So, why not have a short pause before each game to promote a message like "no room for racism" for example? And none of this taking the knee nonsense - that belongs firmly in American culture, not ours, unless you're being knighted by Her Majesty or something.
Blue One said:
So FIFA doesn’t allow poppies to be worn by UK teams, but an overt political gesture at the beginning of each match is allowed.
You get the point here? Tolerance of certain things, intolerance for others. Not a level playing field (no pun intended) at the moment on what is officially enforced and what is frowned upon by our increasingly Woke/PC establishments across government and sport.
You could also cite the generally perceived inbalance in the policing responses in the UK to BLM protests earlier in the year and anti-Lockdown protests.
There is a widely held view (that I subscribe to) that the vacuum created by lockdowns has allowed an unhealthy environment to exist for the advancement of agenda politics and a corrosion of objectivity in society generally.
The football taking of the knee being just one example and the reaction to it yesterday a recoil that was always going to happen. Where the the new medium will be remains to be seen.
This. In spades. You get the point here? Tolerance of certain things, intolerance for others. Not a level playing field (no pun intended) at the moment on what is officially enforced and what is frowned upon by our increasingly Woke/PC establishments across government and sport.
You could also cite the generally perceived inbalance in the policing responses in the UK to BLM protests earlier in the year and anti-Lockdown protests.
There is a widely held view (that I subscribe to) that the vacuum created by lockdowns has allowed an unhealthy environment to exist for the advancement of agenda politics and a corrosion of objectivity in society generally.
The football taking of the knee being just one example and the reaction to it yesterday a recoil that was always going to happen. Where the the new medium will be remains to be seen.
Edited by Blue One on Sunday 6th December 10:18
This gesture should have been done for a month tops. It's now empty and hollow. Sport is supposed to be an escape from politics and reality in general.
230TE said:
Absolutely, the trick is how you isolate and marginalise the racists without turning them into victims. We live in a society where everyone wants to be a victim: adopting the BLM brand and gesture just makes it easier for the racists to talk about political correctness gone mad. It's not an easy problem to solve, otherwise it would have been solved by now. There's no lack of will to end racism, at least among people with an IQ higher than that of a cauliflower. You can see BLM as an off-the-shelf solution that has been picked up by large organisations because it is ready to go. Unfortunately BLM is like the Chinese cordless impact gun I bought: it's crap, deceptively advertised and doesn't work.
In football it's extremely easy to solve. At least to solve the display of it. The first incident of public racism at a football match, whether it be from the crowd, players or staff then the team who's side it cam from is instantly DQ'd. No arguments. Very few games would get ended like that before it was a thing of the past. Write the rules so it can't not be addressed - the only sanction is disqualification and must be dealt with.The football authorities could do that tomorrow. They won't they won't though....cos money.
Brave Fart said:
I think the FA, and Sky, have fallen into an obvious trap. They've allowed themselves to become supporters of a mixed message.
Namely: "Black Lives Matter" rather than black lives matter. It's not grammar pedantry, it's the confusion about whether they are endorsing a political organisation that would (for instance) defund the police, or whether they are opposing racism.
So, why not have a short pause before each game to promote a message like "no room for racism" for example? And none of this taking the knee nonsense - that belongs firmly in American culture, not ours, unless you're being knighted by Her Majesty or something.
It definitely says Black Lives Matter on the screen during every Sky game. Namely: "Black Lives Matter" rather than black lives matter. It's not grammar pedantry, it's the confusion about whether they are endorsing a political organisation that would (for instance) defund the police, or whether they are opposing racism.
So, why not have a short pause before each game to promote a message like "no room for racism" for example? And none of this taking the knee nonsense - that belongs firmly in American culture, not ours, unless you're being knighted by Her Majesty or something.
That well known racist Les Ferdinand explains why it should stop, I completely agree with him.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/21/w...
The FA already had its "Kick it out" campaign which has been great, and should have just stuck with that instead of pandering to groups that are outraged that black criminals are apprehended before resisting arrest in a completely different country to ours.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2020/sep/21/w...
The FA already had its "Kick it out" campaign which has been great, and should have just stuck with that instead of pandering to groups that are outraged that black criminals are apprehended before resisting arrest in a completely different country to ours.
AJL308 said:
In football it's extremely easy to solve. At least to solve the display of it. The first incident of public racism at a football match, whether it be from the crowd, players or staff then the team who's side it cam from is instantly DQ'd. No arguments. Very few games would get ended like that before it was a thing of the past. Write the rules so it can't not be addressed - the only sanction is disqualification and must be dealt with.
The football authorities could do that tomorrow. They won't they won't though....cos money.
Opposite fan sits in home end and boos, disqualify the home team? The football authorities could do that tomorrow. They won't they won't though....cos money.
Stay in Bed Instead said:
These threads are pointless. They always turn into a 'you are racist if you don't agree' crusade.
stinkyspanner said:
Is it racist not to support BLM?
The general consensus now is you are racist if you don't support taking the knee and black lives matter.That was even the stance taken by a BLM football pundit on Talksport this am.
Simple fact is if you are not antiracist BLM you are racist that's the assumption now. Disgusting really.
speedyguy said:
Stay in Bed Instead said:
These threads are pointless. They always turn into a 'you are racist if you don't agree' crusade.
stinkyspanner said:
Is it racist not to support BLM?
The general consensus now is you are racist if you don't support taking the knee and black lives matter.That was even the stance taken by a BLM football pundit on Talksport this am.
Simple fact is if you are not antiracist BLM you are racist that's the assumption now. Disgusting really.
ChocolateFrog said:
It definitely says Black Lives Matter on the screen during every Sky game.
Well quite - perhaps Sky wish to be politically aligned with the organisation, not the sentiment? After all, the BLM logo pops up on screen at exactly 8.46 into each game I believe; a reference to George Floyd.And Sky is owned by Comcast, so there's probably some influence there I imagine.
But the FA, the Premier League and the EFL must realise the confusion between the BLM organisation and the wider message, surely?
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff