Taking the knee
Discussion
Sophisticated Sarah said:
I think football (and sports in general) would have been better off sticking to their own anti-racism schemes. BLM is pretty toxic and creating division.
Just like religion eh.Talking of 'religion' even the 'vicar of dibley' is at it
https://mol.im/a/9022023
Electro1980 said:
If you hate the “defund the police message” you either don’t understand what it means and are just making an interpretation based on your own bias or you are in favour of police brutality.
Defund the police does not mean stop all police funding. It is about removing the funding from the US police that gives them access to tanks, vast numbers of assault weapons and pseudo military kit and using that money to fund social workers, mental health support, drug rehabilitation and early intervention. The aim is to bring attention to the vast funding of the police in many parts of the US and how that leads to the first response to be armed and violent. People are being criminalised and killed for mental health problems, disability and poverty.
So why do we see that message being splashed all over an English football fixture? Similarly, why are footballers in England required to take a knee when it's a gesture that comes from American sport? You couldn't get less American than Millwall's New Den on a Saturday afternoon.Defund the police does not mean stop all police funding. It is about removing the funding from the US police that gives them access to tanks, vast numbers of assault weapons and pseudo military kit and using that money to fund social workers, mental health support, drug rehabilitation and early intervention. The aim is to bring attention to the vast funding of the police in many parts of the US and how that leads to the first response to be armed and violent. People are being criminalised and killed for mental health problems, disability and poverty.
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: As a small aside they're talking about this on Sky Sports now (wider issue with Anton Ferdinand).
Out of the blue my OH mentioned the Anton Ferdinand/John Terry thing the other day, noting it was disgusting how Ferdinand had been treated.I didn't see the TV show, but noted that no matter how odious Terry and some of his family might seem, he was found innocent in a court of law.
I hadn't followed the case at the time so in discussing it we looked it up. Turns out his defense was that he wasn't actually calling Ferdinand the words mentioned, he was repeating something he claimed Ferdinand had said to him in trading insults. Ferdinand's defense on that front didn't seem that strong, Ashley Cole seemed to back Terry up (yes a team mate...but also black).
The whole pitch of the TV programme that I did see made it out that Ferdinand had been wronged. Maybe that was the case (Terry is hardly a wholesome human being from what we see)...but is a TV programme the right way to go about that?
As for taking the knee...I thought they were going to stop it this season. A bit like clapping for the NHS, it seems to have had its day IMO and will be losing impact and, I strongly suspect, will now be losing more support than it gains. Focusing on "Millwall" is the usual mistake people wanting such things to be prominent make. It' not just Millwall fans - they'll be noisiest. But it will be starting to grate on many more - that doesn't make them racist etc.
230TE said:
I think there is a specific problem with the "taking the knee" gesture. It is a reference to American football, a player "takes the knee" to stop play if another player is injured, so most Americans will get it straight away. Over here we kneel in obedience or deference. We kneel before the Queen. So what does "taking the knee" signify to your average football-loving Brit - grovelling to BLM activists? Kneeling in obeisance to black people generally? You don't have to be a paid-up neo-Nazi to see how this particular gesture might be misinterpreted. BLM would benefit from finding a more internationally understood gesture of solidarity IMHO. The one they are using at the moment is just making things worse.
Erm, nope. Taking the knee was a way of making a point during the anthems, nothing to do with stopping play.Murph7355 said:
Out of the blue my OH mentioned the Anton Ferdinand/John Terry thing the other day, noting it was disgusting how Ferdinand had been treated.
I didn't see the TV show, but noted that no matter how odious Terry and some of his family might seem, he was found innocent in a court of law.
I hadn't followed the case at the time so in discussing it we looked it up. Turns out his defense was that he wasn't actually calling Ferdinand the words mentioned, he was repeating something he claimed Ferdinand had said to him in trading insults. Ferdinand's defense on that front didn't seem that strong, Ashley Cole seemed to back Terry up (yes a team mate...but also black).
The whole pitch of the TV programme that I did see made it out that Ferdinand had been wronged. Maybe that was the case (Terry is hardly a wholesome human being from what we see)...but is a TV programme the right way to go about that?
As for taking the knee...I thought they were going to stop it this season. A bit like clapping for the NHS, it seems to have had its day IMO and will be losing impact and, I strongly suspect, will now be losing more support than it gains. Focusing on "Millwall" is the usual mistake people wanting such things to be prominent make. It' not just Millwall fans - they'll be noisiest. But it will be starting to grate on many more - that doesn't make them racist etc.
Haven't watched it myself yet and the Sky show this morning was more of a wider conversation following the Millwall fans conduct.I didn't see the TV show, but noted that no matter how odious Terry and some of his family might seem, he was found innocent in a court of law.
I hadn't followed the case at the time so in discussing it we looked it up. Turns out his defense was that he wasn't actually calling Ferdinand the words mentioned, he was repeating something he claimed Ferdinand had said to him in trading insults. Ferdinand's defense on that front didn't seem that strong, Ashley Cole seemed to back Terry up (yes a team mate...but also black).
The whole pitch of the TV programme that I did see made it out that Ferdinand had been wronged. Maybe that was the case (Terry is hardly a wholesome human being from what we see)...but is a TV programme the right way to go about that?
As for taking the knee...I thought they were going to stop it this season. A bit like clapping for the NHS, it seems to have had its day IMO and will be losing impact and, I strongly suspect, will now be losing more support than it gains. Focusing on "Millwall" is the usual mistake people wanting such things to be prominent make. It' not just Millwall fans - they'll be noisiest. But it will be starting to grate on many more - that doesn't make them racist etc.
Worth remembering the FA concluded Terry had using racially abusive language towards Ferdinand though I'm sure they have a lower burden of proof than the law does.
I think the wider point is the impact it had on Ferdinand and it isn't something I'd claim to have been aware of as these things disappear from the headlines then his name came up around this show but it's pretty stark.
Anton Ferdinand: 'I've carried the burden for nine years'
At the risk of repeating myself footballers are not kneeling in support of a movement they're doing so in support of a message.
I guess when you read stories like Ferdinand's you can see why they continue to do it.
Showing a bit of respect and keeping quiet whilst players show they're against racism doesn't feel like it should be difficult if you really claim to support a team or love the game.
Brave Fart said:
So why do we see that message being splashed all over an English football fixture? Similarly, why are footballers in England required to take a knee when it's a gesture that comes from American sport? You couldn't get less American than Millwall's New Den on a Saturday afternoon.
Do we? I have never seen any English footballer taking about defunding the police.stinkyspanner said:
If that's the case I'd say the 'message' has been well and truly lost
It’s a simple, punchy phrase. “Reduce funding from areas where police are spending on military weapons that are unnecessary in law enforcement and reallocate that spending to early intervention, social and medical care” is rather less chantable or Social media friendly.Uhtred said:
“All lives matter”is the statement all the gammons like to keep trotting out in these threads.
Yes, “All lives matter” except of course the old and vulnerable that die from COVID, asylum seekers and who could forget, the poor and hungry children. Anyone else I forgot to mention?
Gammons, classy.Yes, “All lives matter” except of course the old and vulnerable that die from COVID, asylum seekers and who could forget, the poor and hungry children. Anyone else I forgot to mention?
Your post says everything about you, and nothing about anything else.
gregs656 said:
PH is usually quite keen on teasing our nuance and giving people the benefit of the doubt until it fits the narrative on here.
Not difficult to understand there is a difference between BLM the statement and BLM the political movement.
No one owns the phrase.
ThisNot difficult to understand there is a difference between BLM the statement and BLM the political movement.
No one owns the phrase.
The blokes behind Extinction Rebellion want to end globalisation.
Not getting any traction.
Rebrand as Extinction Rebellion - and you get the support - to help achieve the original goal.
BLM is the same story.
Want to end racism. Fully agree.
Taking the knee. f
king arse gravy.Electro1980 said:
stinkyspanner said:
If that's the case I'd say the 'message' has been well and truly lost
It’s a simple, punchy phrase. “Reduce funding from areas where police are spending on military weapons that are unnecessary in law enforcement and reallocate that spending to early intervention, social and medical care” is rather less chantable or Social media friendly.stinkyspanner said:
Hmm, but who knows that 'defund the police' means that^, unless it gets pointed out to them on a car forum?
Anyone who takes 5 minutes to find out.This isn't aimed directly at you but if people are going to get angry about something just do some basic homework first.
Makes it look a bit less reactionary when someone points out that it doesn't actually mean what they think it means.
Uhtred said:
Your post says you’re a sensitive little snowflake and that you’re exactly the type of hypocrite I was referring to.
Sensitive, nope, not at all. Just old enough to know that 'taking the knee' has not only run its course, but had limited to no impact anyway. Good luck with the campaign. Its difficult to see how the FA can find an elegant way out of this until the end of this season. Maybe they should dedicate the FA Cup 3rd round to the BLM campaign and end all the kneeling from that point. The knuckle-draggers at Millwall (Stephen Lawrence country, remember) are just the vocal tip of the iceberg and these theatrics should now end. We get the point and most of us actually respect the BLM campaign. Move on.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff