How many have been vaccinated so far?

[BrundanBianchi]

768 said:

Another issue I'd imagine is that if you bang out all the doses and then another batch doesn't arrive in time, coupled with the ability of people to remember an appointment, you'll have lots of people slipping well beyond the dose interval. As soon as someone misses the intended timeframe for a second dose I'm sure we'll hear about it all over the place.

The higher the ‘effectiveness percentage’ of the vaccine is, the less of a problem there is with people ‘falling through the net’. The BIOntech / Pfizer vaccine is up in the 90s, which is good news.

[Russ T Bolt]

yajeed said:

Same here. With a pretty small margin for wasted doses tolerable it’s the only sensible thing to do.

You could over book, but having the elderly wait even longer (in the rain) would hardly be patient focused.

Could you not have some people on standby ?

I am below age but clinically vulnerable (so fall into tranche 4 or 5 I think), if my GP asked me to be on standby if people didn't show I could be there in 10 mins of getting the nod, if they all showed nothing lost.

[Russ T Bolt]

Muncher said:

yajeed said:

That's so far from the truth it's difficult to know where to start.

Couple of questions for you Muncher:

1) When do you think the government asked PCNs to prepare to deliver a vaccine?
2) When do you think the detail of that request was provided?
3) Since this is an opt-in service for the providers, when was for first specification of what was required provided?
4) When was the first contract shown to those providers?

Clue: Don't answer in months. Days would be a good demonination, but may not be specific enough.

I am not blaming those at the stabby end, the point was from about March onwards it would have been apparent we would need to be rolling this out at some point.

I know local authorities were setting up sites for mass vaccination on 13 November so I would hope that the wheels were in motion on the delivery side by then, but that's precisely my point, I doubt they were.

I guess, given your occupation we could ask why conveyancing takes so long, looks pretty easy to me. Glass houses and all that.

I think 100k + vaccines in a week from a standing start of a new vaccine that has specific handing/storage conditions is pretty good.

Once the Oxford vaccine comes on stream I suspect it will increase rapidly as it can be stored more easily.

[Ntv]

Russ T Bolt said:

Muncher said:

yajeed said:

That's so far from the truth it's difficult to know where to start.

Couple of questions for you Muncher:

1) When do you think the government asked PCNs to prepare to deliver a vaccine?
2) When do you think the detail of that request was provided?
3) Since this is an opt-in service for the providers, when was for first specification of what was required provided?
4) When was the first contract shown to those providers?

Clue: Don't answer in months. Days would be a good demonination, but may not be specific enough.

I am not blaming those at the stabby end, the point was from about March onwards it would have been apparent we would need to be rolling this out at some point.

I know local authorities were setting up sites for mass vaccination on 13 November so I would hope that the wheels were in motion on the delivery side by then, but that's precisely my point, I doubt they were.

I guess, given your occupation we could ask why conveyancing takes so long, looks pretty easy to me. Glass houses and all that.

I think 100k + vaccines in a week from a standing start of a new vaccine that has specific handing/storage conditions is pretty good.

Once the Oxford vaccine comes on stream I suspect it will increase rapidly as it can be stored more easily.

100k vaccines in a week is ste.

We are destroying lives, jobs, education and society while we wait for this wonder drug.

Why don't we have 5000 teams administering this thing already?

How many med students were fast tracked in the summer, sheep dipped through vaccine training to build an army to vaccinate?

Didn't hear much about that?

[BrundanBianchi]

Deathmole said:

Lol, they'll never be done away with.

The Chinese and Japanese ( as an example) have been mask wearers ( as part of their culture ) since the 1950s. They didn’t notice much difference when this all kicked off. I imagine mask wearing will become much more of a ‘social norm’ in many more territories, in years to come.

[BrundanBianchi]

Ntv said:

100k vaccines in a week is ste.

It’s not brilliant I’ll grant you.

Ntv said:

Why don't we have 5000 teams administering this thing already?

Because trained vaccinators don’t grow on trees.

Ntv said:

How many med students were fast tracked in the summer, sheep dipped through vaccine training to build an army to vaccinate?

Didn't hear much about that?

How many med students do you think there are?

[BrundanBianchi]

Russ T Bolt said:

Once the Oxford vaccine comes on stream I suspect it will increase rapidly as it can be stored more easily.

But there are some questions about how effective it is, relative to the other candidates. It is easier to store, but that counts for little if it doesn’t work particularly well.

[jmflare]

BrundanBianchi said:

Ntv said:

Why don't we have 5000 teams administering this thing already?

Because trained vaccinators don’t grow on trees.

But they've had 10 months and an unlimited money tree? Why are you making excuses? Who are you defending saying that?

[Russ T Bolt]

Ntv said:

Russ T Bolt said:

Muncher said:

yajeed said:

That's so far from the truth it's difficult to know where to start.

Couple of questions for you Muncher:

1) When do you think the government asked PCNs to prepare to deliver a vaccine?
2) When do you think the detail of that request was provided?
3) Since this is an opt-in service for the providers, when was for first specification of what was required provided?
4) When was the first contract shown to those providers?

Clue: Don't answer in months. Days would be a good demonination, but may not be specific enough.

I am not blaming those at the stabby end, the point was from about March onwards it would have been apparent we would need to be rolling this out at some point.

I know local authorities were setting up sites for mass vaccination on 13 November so I would hope that the wheels were in motion on the delivery side by then, but that's precisely my point, I doubt they were.

I guess, given your occupation we could ask why conveyancing takes so long, looks pretty easy to me. Glass houses and all that.

I think 100k + vaccines in a week from a standing start of a new vaccine that has specific handing/storage conditions is pretty good.

Once the Oxford vaccine comes on stream I suspect it will increase rapidly as it can be stored more easily.

100k vaccines in a week is ste.

We are destroying lives, jobs, education and society while we wait for this wonder drug.

Why don't we have 5000 teams administering this thing already?

How many med students were fast tracked in the summer, sheep dipped through vaccine training to build an army to vaccinate?

Didn't hear much about that?

I suspect you are going to be very disappointed at how this pans out over the next year.

To expect a brand new vaccine, that is only just being rolled out in other countries, a week or so behind the UK, to hit those volumes from scratch is unreasonable. Good job you aren't in the EU, end of year is it they plan to start vaccinating ?

Not destroying my life or job thanks, nor any of my family, colleagues or friends.

But you continue being hysterical if it helps you get over your life and job being destroyed.

What if a vaccine had taken another 12 months to materialise ?

[Russ T Bolt]

BrundanBianchi said:

Russ T Bolt said:

Once the Oxford vaccine comes on stream I suspect it will increase rapidly as it can be stored more easily.

But there are some questions about how effective it is, relative to the other candidates. It is easier to store, but that counts for little if it doesn’t work particularly well.

I saw a Respiratory Consultant last week who is leading the Covid Vaccine roll out in this area, I did ask him that question, he gave me a detailed answer that was way beyond my knowledge. He was confident.

[Russ T Bolt]

jmflare said:

BrundanBianchi said:

Ntv said:

Why don't we have 5000 teams administering this thing already?

Because trained vaccinators don’t grow on trees.

But they've had 10 months and an unlimited money tree? Why are you making excuses? Who are you defending saying that?

Is there enough stock of the vaccine yet to keep all those vaccinators busy or will they be standing around doing nothing ?

[pavarotti1980]

jmflare said:

But they've had 10 months and an unlimited money tree? Why are you making excuses? Who are you defending saying that?

Has the legislation changed to allow people to administer an unlicensed vaccine who aren't doctors or nurse practitioners yet?

if not its a bit of a rate limiting step

[vaud]

pavarotti1980 said:

Has the legislation changed to allow people to administer an unlicensed vaccine who aren't doctors or nurse practitioners yet?

Do you need to be a doctor or a nurse to administer a vaccine?

Only the job specs on the NHS make no reference for immunisers:

http://jobs.eput.nhs.uk/job/UK/Essex/Essex/Essex_P...

"Educated to NVQ 3 level in a relevant subject and short courses or equivalent level of qualification and short courses or significant equivalent previous proven experience. First aid training. Experience in giving injections or immunisations previously.

[poo at Paul's]

Terminator X said:

This will take years, 68m people if all took it x2 doses!

TX.

If it lasts 3m only, it is about 480mil jabs per year!

[768]

jmflare said:

BrundanBianchi said:

Ntv said:

Why don't we have 5000 teams administering this thing already?

Because trained vaccinators don’t grow on trees.

But they've had 10 months and an unlimited money tree? Why are you making excuses? Who are you defending saying that?

You would have hired 5000 teams of people 10 months ago and had them sit on their arses in case a vaccine turned up?

[B'stard Child]

768 said:

jmflare said:

BrundanBianchi said:

Ntv said:

Why don't we have 5000 teams administering this thing already?

Because trained vaccinators don’t grow on trees.

But they've had 10 months and an unlimited money tree? Why are you making excuses? Who are you defending saying that?

You would have hired 5000 teams of people 10 months ago and had them sit on their arses in case a vaccine turned up?

Isn't that what they did with track and trace

[pavarotti1980]

vaud said:

Do you need to be a doctor or a nurse to administer a vaccine?

Only the job specs on the NHS make no reference for immunisers:

http://jobs.eput.nhs.uk/job/UK/Essex/Essex/Essex_P...

"Educated to NVQ 3 level in a relevant subject and short courses or equivalent level of qualification and short courses or significant equivalent previous proven experience. First aid training. Experience in giving injections or immunisations previously.

No but as this is unlicensed (which is different from normal vaccines) they needed to make changes to legislation to allow non doctors and nurses to administer in the same way as flu vaccines for example

Its simply a result of MHRA giving them emergency approval (as with EMA & FDA too) and not a marketing authorisation

Edited by pavarotti1980 on Thursday 17th December 13:50

[jmflare]

768 said:

jmflare said:

BrundanBianchi said:

Ntv said:

Why don't we have 5000 teams administering this thing already?

Because trained vaccinators don’t grow on trees.

But they've had 10 months and an unlimited money tree? Why are you making excuses? Who are you defending saying that?

You would have hired 5000 teams of people 10 months ago and had them sit on their arses in case a vaccine turned up?

Yes would've done that, that's exactly what I said down to a tee, well done.

Mass training existing staff and volunteers to administer vaccines over the last 10 months incase a vaccine, that we were pinning our exit strategy on, turns up. Sounds reasonable to me?

[vaud]

pavarotti1980 said:

No but as this is unlicensed they needed to make changes to legislation to allow non doctors and nurses to administer in the same way as flu vaccines for example

Ahhh... I went looking:

Consultation: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/distri...

Draft statutory instrument: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

Debated: https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2020-10-16/d...

And in force: COVID-19: Human Medicine Regulations amended to support vaccine rollout
https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/w-027-9...

[pavarotti1980]

vaud said:

Ahhh... I went looking:

Consultation: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/distri...

Draft statutory instrument: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

Debated: https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2020-10-16/d...

And in force: COVID-19: Human Medicine Regulations amended to support vaccine rollout
https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/w-027-9...

At least it means AHPs can be used to do it all now.

community pharmacies will be repeating the seasonal flu thing once Oxford one is approved.