2021 - Retailer woe & retail sector chat

[snuffy]

Electro1980 said:

snuffy said:

Electro1980 said:

15 years ago, yes. Not now. They are just normal people trying to do their best but unlike every other company I have been at they were trying to do it with the square root of fk all because tax payers what everything for nothing. We were still consulting microfiche records for fks sake.

Using microfiche that everyone else got rid of years ago ? So you failed to modernise and who do you blame ? Certainly not yourself it seems.

And why did we/they not modernise? No money. So, yes, I blame the people who want a Finest service for Value prices.

And yet the costs in the long run would be less if you did modernise.

So now it's costing more due to lack of foresight. And who pays that cost - the council tax payer, that's who.

[speedchick]

Our council is doing free from 3 for 3 months starting on Monday.
Revenue from parking has hit the gutter, we have lost one car park to a test site, crown and mags courts doing very little so that's impacted another 2 car parks, and they have given loads of free parking permits to the vaccination centre staff.

[Electro1980]

snuffy said:

Electro1980 said:

snuffy said:

Electro1980 said:

15 years ago, yes. Not now. They are just normal people trying to do their best but unlike every other company I have been at they were trying to do it with the square root of fk all because tax payers what everything for nothing. We were still consulting microfiche records for fks sake.

Using microfiche that everyone else got rid of years ago ? So you failed to modernise and who do you blame ? Certainly not yourself it seems.

And why did we/they not modernise? No money. So, yes, I blame the people who want a Finest service for Value prices.

And yet the costs in the long run would be less if you did modernise.

So now it's costing more due to lack of foresight. And who pays that cost - the council tax payer, that's who.

And where would that money to modernise come from? There is no point telling someone “it’ll cost you £50 now for this one that will last 10 years or £10 a year for this one” if all someone has is £10.

[Flooble]

Reminds me of Terry Pratchets cardboard boots

[survivalist]

Electro1980 said:

snuffy said:

Electro1980 said:

snuffy said:

Electro1980 said:

15 years ago, yes. Not now. They are just normal people trying to do their best but unlike every other company I have been at they were trying to do it with the square root of fk all because tax payers what everything for nothing. We were still consulting microfiche records for fks sake.

Using microfiche that everyone else got rid of years ago ? So you failed to modernise and who do you blame ? Certainly not yourself it seems.

And why did we/they not modernise? No money. So, yes, I blame the people who want a Finest service for Value prices.

And yet the costs in the long run would be less if you did modernise.

So now it's costing more due to lack of foresight. And who pays that cost - the council tax payer, that's who.

And where would that money to modernise come from? There is no point telling someone “it’ll cost you £50 now for this one that will last 10 years or £10 a year for this one” if all someone has is £10.

That’s part of the issue, but there’s plenty of ways around that with different financial models. The real issue is that there’s no competition and therefore no impetus for change. There’s also an element of job preservation, although in many cases it’s an unfounded fear that change will put jobs at risk.

If I don’t like Netflix I can cancel and watch Amazon Prime, Netflix or Sky instead. If I’m not happy with my local council there’s very little I can do. I suppose I can move, but that’s a more significant undertaking.

That said, I agree with the previous poster who’s experience was that a percentage of the workforce make it difficult for the diligent and forward thinking to make an impact.

[Electro1980]

[quote=survivalist]

That’s part of the issue, but there’s plenty of ways around that with different financial models. [\quote]

Are you going to elaborate on how councils can magic money from thin air?

[survivalist]

Electro1980 said:

survivalist said:

That’s part of the issue, but there’s plenty of ways around that with different financial models. [\quote]

Are you going to elaborate on how councils can magic money from thin air?

Clearly no one is talking about creating money from thin air.

Efficient procurement can certainly make the available money go further.

Automating processes and using technology to drive efficiency is often, in my experience, has often been opposed due to fear of job losses.

The process of budget allocation and spend can also be the very opposite of efficiency.

Financial models don’t ‘magic money from thin air’, but they do provide financial predictability.

Examples that spring to mind including stretching a 6 month project over 5 years in order to show ‘continuous improvement’ and eroding a large chunk of the cost benefit as a result.

Huge resistance to offering online services (for example asking people to post in cheques or pay their parking fines in person, when a significant percentage would have happily used their website).

I’m not saying that all councils suffer from these issues (I know of some who have worked hard to change their approach), or that some private companies don’t suffer the same issues.

[Electro1980]

So, back to, where does the money come from to do these things? To automate, to move online, to commit resources to projects? If all of your money is going on operating expenses where do you propose capital budget for these things comes from?

This is the fundamental issue most councils have. They want to do more and better but, as I said, have no money.

[skwdenyer]

survivalist said:

Electro1980 said:

survivalist said:

That’s part of the issue, but there’s plenty of ways around that with different financial models. [\quote]

Are you going to elaborate on how councils can magic money from thin air?

Clearly no one is talking about creating money from thin air.

Efficient procurement can certainly make the available money go further.

Automating processes and using technology to drive efficiency is often, in my experience, has often been opposed due to fear of job losses.

The process of budget allocation and spend can also be the very opposite of efficiency.

Financial models don’t ‘magic money from thin air’, but they do provide financial predictability.

Examples that spring to mind including stretching a 6 month project over 5 years in order to show ‘continuous improvement’ and eroding a large chunk of the cost benefit as a result.

Huge resistance to offering online services (for example asking people to post in cheques or pay their parking fines in person, when a significant percentage would have happily used their website).

I’m not saying that all councils suffer from these issues (I know of some who have worked hard to change their approach), or that some private companies don’t suffer the same issues.

It might help if each Council didn't have to do everything itself. Every one of them has to procure and run what are in effect the same systems. It is madness. I do not grasp why, for instance, there is not a single national planning database that each council can populate with its own data. Procurement in general seems to be stupid - why do I never see, for example, neighbouring councils clubbing together to operate services or equipment?

The amount of duplication across the country seems - on the face of it - mind-blowing.

[survivalist]

Electro1980 said:

So, back to, where does the money come from to do these things? To automate, to move online, to commit resources to projects? If all of your money is going on operating expenses where do you propose capital budget for these things comes from?

There’s a few suggestions above, streamlining procurement. Investing money into projects that drive down the overall operating costs.

The fact the some councils have successfully done so proves that it’s possible.

It’s many ways it should be no different to any other organisation that has to adapt to changing conditions. The reason it is different is because for the ‘customers’ there is no alternative.

[Electro1980]

skwdenyer said:

I never see, for example, neighbouring councils clubbing together to operate services or equipment?

They do, regularly. Housing maintenance and refuse are often shared between a group of councils and branded locally as far as possible.

[Electro1980]

survivalist said:

Electro1980 said:

So, back to, where does the money come from to do these things? To automate, to move online, to commit resources to projects? If all of your money is going on operating expenses where do you propose capital budget for these things comes from?

There’s a few suggestions above, streamlining procurement. Investing money into projects that drive down the overall operating costs.

The fact the some councils have successfully done so proves that it’s possible.

It’s many ways it should be no different to any other organisation that has to adapt to changing conditions. The reason it is different is because for the ‘customers’ there is no alternative.

It’s clear you have no idea then.

Councils are strictly limited in how they can manage budgets. Many operating budgets are ring fenced. The money from central government grants must be spent on what it is given for. This leaves only any surplus from council tax and business rates. For some councils, in wealthy areas predominantly, this can be a healthy amount of money. For others not so much. Poorer areas tend to cost the council more and make them less.

They can also bit for capital grants, but these have to be for specific things, and are normally from funds set up with specific aims.

All of this leaves a lot of councils outside of major metropolitan areas with little ability to raise money to do those things. It’s all very well shouting “sort out procurement” but don’t you think that has already been thought about? Procurement rules for any publicly funded body are very strict.

On top of this councils are not able to borrow. There is very little flexibility in most councils. They have lots of services they are legally obligated to provide and little flexibility in the way they do a lot of things.

[survivalist]

Electro1980 said:

survivalist said:

Electro1980 said:

So, back to, where does the money come from to do these things? To automate, to move online, to commit resources to projects? If all of your money is going on operating expenses where do you propose capital budget for these things comes from?

There’s a few suggestions above, streamlining procurement. Investing money into projects that drive down the overall operating costs.

The fact the some councils have successfully done so proves that it’s possible.

It’s many ways it should be no different to any other organisation that has to adapt to changing conditions. The reason it is different is because for the ‘customers’ there is no alternative.

It’s clear you have no idea then.

Councils are strictly limited in how they can manage budgets. Many operating budgets are ring fenced. The money from central government grants must be spent on what it is given for. This leaves only any surplus from council tax and business rates. For some councils, in wealthy areas predominantly, this can be a healthy amount of money. For others not so much. Poorer areas tend to cost the council more and make them less.

They can also bit for capital grants, but these have to be for specific things, and are normally from funds set up with specific aims.

All of this leaves a lot of councils outside of major metropolitan areas with little ability to raise money to do those things. It’s all very well shouting “sort out procurement” but don’t you think that has already been thought about? Procurement rules for any publicly funded body are very strict.

On top of this councils are not able to borrow. There is very little flexibility in most councils. They have lots of services they are legally obligated to provide and little flexibility in the way they do a lot of things.

Many councils use leasing or as a service schemes to accomplish a variety of ends, plus a

Tender documents and pricing requests issued under the same frameworks and procurement rules often differ vastly and a result so does the resulting supplier pricing.

In terms of borrowing, there’s been a significant increase in access to borrowing for councils in the past 15-20 years.

Your posts seem to illustrate the attitude that I originally commented on - looking for reasons why things can’t be changed or improved rather than looking for solutions.

The impact of the pandemic, or at least the lockdowns that have been imposed as a result, will have a significant impact on the high street and local councils as a result. The councils will have to adapt just as retail will. My money is that, largely, retail will do so faster.

[menousername]

Ok well - headcount reduction instead. 30%.

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Wife got talking to a fellow mum at the park yesterday, who it turned out was walking for primark in town.

Wife tried to be positive, “good news about tomorrow etc are you opening at midnight”

“They wanted us to but no one would work it”

[vaud]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Wife got talking to a fellow mum at the park yesterday, who it turned out was walking for primark in town.

Wife tried to be positive, “good news about tomorrow etc are you opening at midnight”

“They wanted us to but no one would work it”

To be fair the pent up demand for Primark products will still be there at 9am as opposed to midnight on a cold Sunday night. Opening would just have been for the local news, not revenue.

[Vasco]

Long queues reported at Primark stores despite some opening at 7am

[Red 4]

Vasco said:

Long queues reported at Primark stores despite some opening at 7am

.. Shows the mentality. Shops have been closed for months and everyone got by. Why not just go back when there are no queues ? Unless, of course, you like queues.

[hyphen]

LaurasOtherHalf said:

Wife got talking to a fellow mum at the park yesterday, who it turned out was walking for primark in town.

Wife tried to be positive, “good news about tomorrow etc are you opening at midnight”

“They wanted us to but no one would work it”

Walking...

Is the one of those people that stand in town with a sign containing an arrow?
The walk to fight for cancer fundraising was fully booked, so she chose an alternate cause?
etc

[Vasco]

Red 4 said:

Vasco said:

Long queues reported at Primark stores despite some opening at 7am

.. Shows the mentality. Shops have been closed for months and everyone got by. Why not just go back when there are no queues ? Unless, of course, you like queues.

You don't think that some people might have run out of socks, pants, tights etc or just want something different for their wardrobe?
For the ladies at least it's probably a massive boost to feeling like they're getting back to something like normality. Anything that helps the mental state must surely be a good thing?