2021 - Retailer woe & retail sector chat
Discussion
menousername said:
Problem is we are assuming anyone can rock up and get those jobs
Firstly, its human nature that despite how much they say they need hospitality staff, there will be a manager type person going through CVs looking for people with the exact same experience. The idea of training people or people being capable of being retrained is usually lost in the recruitment process unfortunately.
Secondly, my experience of Debenhams was a mixture of young female staff / student type staff and then older women working the beauty counters. if you are a 50+ y/o former Debenhams worker, how likely are you to be getting the waitress job at a bar / restaurant, even if you are up to the long late evenings on your feet. Exceptions exist of course, but there is still a tendency for hospitality recruitment to hunt out young 18-25 type people. It may not be admitted or even conscious, but a fair chunk will gravitate towards recruiting dolly birds not 50+ women.
Hence my comment about the Mrs Slocombe'sFirstly, its human nature that despite how much they say they need hospitality staff, there will be a manager type person going through CVs looking for people with the exact same experience. The idea of training people or people being capable of being retrained is usually lost in the recruitment process unfortunately.
Secondly, my experience of Debenhams was a mixture of young female staff / student type staff and then older women working the beauty counters. if you are a 50+ y/o former Debenhams worker, how likely are you to be getting the waitress job at a bar / restaurant, even if you are up to the long late evenings on your feet. Exceptions exist of course, but there is still a tendency for hospitality recruitment to hunt out young 18-25 type people. It may not be admitted or even conscious, but a fair chunk will gravitate towards recruiting dolly birds not 50+ women.
My Family have been in the catering sector for over 5 years - 18 restaurants and 42 takeaways to being landlords, so here's my tuppence worth.
There are 2 main types of business in catering:
(1) The owner managers - typically they/their family set up the business, cook themselves, run Front of House themselves
(2) The owner operators - whether they are large chains such as Beefeater, Prezzo, or small chic bistro in an affluent area who have created the concept of a restaurant and employ chefs and Front of House. The owner operators step back from the business and run them on a directorship level.
In my experience the Owner Managers only need to employ a few members of staff and have no trouble finding them. One pub near me employs a mix of enthusiastic sixth formers to support the full-time staff - drinks, busboy etc.
The Owner Operators are the ones struggling as they need large teams to run a restaurant - chefs, sous-chefs, FOH, waiting staff, etc. Because they've always operated on zero hour contracts they are finding many people enjoy the work/life balance of other Covid enforced jobs. One of these restaurants is amazed that no-one is snapping up a £30k waiting role. But that's £30k AFTER tips which they've estimated at £12k. So £18k for long unsociable hours and EVERY weekend no longer cuts it.
There are 2 main types of business in catering:
(1) The owner managers - typically they/their family set up the business, cook themselves, run Front of House themselves
(2) The owner operators - whether they are large chains such as Beefeater, Prezzo, or small chic bistro in an affluent area who have created the concept of a restaurant and employ chefs and Front of House. The owner operators step back from the business and run them on a directorship level.
In my experience the Owner Managers only need to employ a few members of staff and have no trouble finding them. One pub near me employs a mix of enthusiastic sixth formers to support the full-time staff - drinks, busboy etc.
The Owner Operators are the ones struggling as they need large teams to run a restaurant - chefs, sous-chefs, FOH, waiting staff, etc. Because they've always operated on zero hour contracts they are finding many people enjoy the work/life balance of other Covid enforced jobs. One of these restaurants is amazed that no-one is snapping up a £30k waiting role. But that's £30k AFTER tips which they've estimated at £12k. So £18k for long unsociable hours and EVERY weekend no longer cuts it.
I really enjoyed working in a pub in holidays as a student. It was one of the higher grossing chain pubs at the time in an affluent area. Short order grill, big bar, outdoor space. Always rammed on a weekend, it was a gold mine for chain owners so I think they turned a bit of a blind eye.
Hectic, money was good (as a student) and the tips ok and I think the "bonuses" were probably not so legit. Perks were also good (chef would cook you whatever you wanted), free beer after you finished and the locals generally friendly.
Would not do it as a full time job.
Hectic, money was good (as a student) and the tips ok and I think the "bonuses" were probably not so legit. Perks were also good (chef would cook you whatever you wanted), free beer after you finished and the locals generally friendly.
Would not do it as a full time job.
vikingaero said:
The Owner Operators are the ones struggling as they need large teams to run a restaurant - chefs, sous-chefs, FOH, waiting staff, etc. Because they've always operated on zero hour contracts they are finding many people enjoy the work/life balance of other Covid enforced jobs. One of these restaurants is amazed that no-one is snapping up a £30k waiting role. But that's £30k AFTER tips which they've estimated at £12k. So £18k for long unsociable hours and EVERY weekend no longer cuts it.
What is contactless payments likely to do for tipping? It feels to me like it was dying last year as few card machines offer the option with contactless and no cash took away that option (from the customers view point).mcdjl said:
What is contactless payments likely to do for tipping? It feels to me like it was dying last year as few card machines offer the option with contactless and no cash took away that option (from the customers view point).
Its easy enough to get the option to add a tip onto the card machines. Its easier if you avoid contactless and make your customer put the card in the machine. When the contactless was only up to £30 a restaurant bill was usually over that and easy to get a tip on as the card had to have its PIN put in so you had to give the customer the machibe anyway. You just left the tip screen open first. Once they add a tip or decline they then put the PIN in.Now its £50 its not so easy to avoid contactless.
Just putting the check on a bill plate usually gets you a pound or two more often than not. Cash will always be accepted in tip form.
Most restaurants are now operating an automatic service charge on table of 6 or more or if you split the bill. Usually 10% but will happily let you tip more.
Cash tips will always be prefered by servers. They are never declared officially with the taxman even though they should. Credit card tips go through the system and paid usually through your paycheck so tax man gets his cut.
My credit card tips usually pay enough that it negates the total tax for the month so I walk away with the gross pay or more in value rather than the net value on my pay if that makes sense.
sherman said:
mcdjl said:
What is contactless payments likely to do for tipping? It feels to me like it was dying last year as few card machines offer the option with contactless and no cash took away that option (from the customers view point).
Its easy enough to get the option to add a tip onto the card machines. Its easier if you avoid contactless and make your customer put the card in the machine. When the contactless was only up to £30 a restaurant bill was usually over that and easy to get a tip on as the card had to have its PIN put in so you had to give the customer the machibe anyway. You just left the tip screen open first. Once they add a tip or decline they then put the PIN in.Now its £50 its not so easy to avoid contactless.
Just putting the check on a bill plate usually gets you a pound or two more often than not. Cash will always be accepted in tip form.
Most restaurants are now operating an automatic service charge on table of 6 or more or if you split the bill. Usually 10% but will happily let you tip more.
Cash tips will always be prefered by servers. They are never declared officially with the taxman even though they should. Credit card tips go through the system and paid usually through your paycheck so tax man gets his cut.
My credit card tips usually pay enough that it negates the total tax for the month so I walk away with the gross pay or more in value rather than the net value on my pay if that makes sense.
Gecko1978 said:
When I tip always use cash feels like I am giving it to the server not the management. If they don't declare it could care less
It depends on how they split cash tips but management may get a cut. Usually only if they are on the floor though. Office day = no tips. Cash tips get complicated quickly. You either give everyone on shift an equal share or it just gets messy. Tronc systems are complicated.
Chefs usually get a share of the tips.
ambuletz said:
Took this from the real estate nightmares thread... a glimpse of things to come perhaps?
https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/58309690/
Excellent premises for a prossie https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/58309690/
The punters can make a discreet entrance through the back door
anonymoususer said:
ambuletz said:
Took this from the real estate nightmares thread... a glimpse of things to come perhaps?
https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/58309690/
Excellent premises for a prossie https://www.zoopla.co.uk/to-rent/details/58309690/
The punters can make a discreet entrance through the back door
sherman said:
Gecko1978 said:
When I tip always use cash feels like I am giving it to the server not the management. If they don't declare it could care less
It depends on how they split cash tips but management may get a cut. Usually only if they are on the floor though. Office day = no tips. Cash tips get complicated quickly. You either give everyone on shift an equal share or it just gets messy. Tronc systems are complicated.
Chefs usually get a share of the tips.
sherman said:
mcdjl said:
What is contactless payments likely to do for tipping? It feels to me like it was dying last year as few card machines offer the option with contactless and no cash took away that option (from the customers view point).
Its easy enough to get the option to add a tip onto the card machines. Its easier if you avoid contactless and make your customer put the card in the machine. When the contactless was only up to £30 a restaurant bill was usually over that and easy to get a tip on as the card had to have its PIN put in so you had to give the customer the machibe anyway. You just left the tip screen open first. Once they add a tip or decline they then put the PIN in.Now its £50 its not so easy to avoid contactless.
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff