Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 10
Discussion
technodup said:
hidetheelephants said:
he SNP and some indy supporters do not want devomax or a federal settlement because they fear such a thing would significantly reduce any chance of full independence.
Devolution was supposed to reduce the chance of independence. It increased massively.
hidetheelephants said:
A federal settlement would go some way to solving the Tam Dalzell Question and other easter eggs hidden in the undergrowth by Donald Dewar.
Considering the constitutional loopholes that Sturgeon has deftly used to cover up her misdeeds it might be an idea that existing arrangements are tightened-up and some adequate checks-and-balances put in place before we go adding to the 'easter eggs'.marcella said:
I like the idea of an independent Scotland
Why do you like the idea? What would an indy Scotland be able to do that a devolved govt can't?
We already have power over almost everything that effects day to day life. - health, police, fire, law, local govt, etc etc. In fact there is a history of the SNP being offered more powers but not taking them
https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14885035.snp-c...
The issue is getting good govt of the existing set up. Unless there is something I can't see.
Thanks for those that replied to my previous post, glad I'm not alone.
One thing that bothers me is that people I know that are 'for' the SNP have just seen the recent scandal of NS as the tories trying to get her kicked out. I can't believe that they cannot see she's in the wrong and yesterdays trial was an embarrassment (and not just for NS).
The other thing that bothers me slightly is I keep hearing from the rest of the UK on why we are idiots for wanting independence but I haven't heard them actually saying why they want to keep us. It would be nice to hear a bit more from the English especially on why they want us to remain and not bashing us for always putting our hands out and taking all 'their' money.
One thing that bothers me is that people I know that are 'for' the SNP have just seen the recent scandal of NS as the tories trying to get her kicked out. I can't believe that they cannot see she's in the wrong and yesterdays trial was an embarrassment (and not just for NS).
The other thing that bothers me slightly is I keep hearing from the rest of the UK on why we are idiots for wanting independence but I haven't heard them actually saying why they want to keep us. It would be nice to hear a bit more from the English especially on why they want us to remain and not bashing us for always putting our hands out and taking all 'their' money.
marcella said:
Thanks for those that replied to my previous post, glad I'm not alone.
One thing that bothers me is that people I know that are 'for' the SNP have just seen the recent scandal of NS as the tories trying to get her kicked out. I can't believe that they cannot see she's in the wrong and yesterdays trial was an embarrassment (and not just for NS).
The other thing that bothers me slightly is I keep hearing from the rest of the UK on why we are idiots for wanting independence but I haven't heard them actually saying why they want to keep us. It would be nice to hear a bit more from the English especially on why they want us to remain and not bashing us for always putting our hands out and taking all 'their' money.
Why do power hungry idiots in westminster want to keep scotland?One thing that bothers me is that people I know that are 'for' the SNP have just seen the recent scandal of NS as the tories trying to get her kicked out. I can't believe that they cannot see she's in the wrong and yesterdays trial was an embarrassment (and not just for NS).
The other thing that bothers me slightly is I keep hearing from the rest of the UK on why we are idiots for wanting independence but I haven't heard them actually saying why they want to keep us. It would be nice to hear a bit more from the English especially on why they want us to remain and not bashing us for always putting our hands out and taking all 'their' money.
probably something todo with them being power hungry idiots
that and they probably don't want to be sharing a land border with a hostile neighbour
And
Tell me after looking at the actions of team facepaint
Can you see it being anything other than a hostile relationship?
marcella said:
The other thing that bothers me slightly is I keep hearing from the rest of the UK on why we are idiots for wanting independence but I haven't heard them actually saying why they want to keep us. It would be nice to hear a bit more from the English especially on why they want us to remain and not bashing us for always putting our hands out and taking all 'their' money.
I don't mind either way, it's your decision not ours. The money doesn't bother me, it's our(UK) money, not our (England) money.My problem with independence is the rhetoric and ""logic"" used by the SNats. It's utterly pathetic that any criticism is just deflected into Tories/Westminster, as nicely illustrated with the recent Fishy furore. Any criticism of Sturgeon is immediately pounced upon with but look at Tories. Or that's me convinced pal, now I'm going to vote tory. It's so, so pathetic.
Tories are simultaneously the root of all evil, and they set the standard for Sturgeon to uphold. Remarkable mental gymnastics, but the face-painters lap it up.
I think it's inevitable. If the case stacked up, I'd have nothing to say. It just doesn't stack up. No doubt Scotland could be a successful independent country, but it comes with a severe price for at least a few decades. Mention that, and you're a tory shill astroturfer. It's a cult.
SNP corrupt? Nae bother, they'll be gone after indy. To be replaced by persons unknown. Don't worry that NS is a power hungry control freak
Currency? Nae botha, it's our pound too y'know. As though that resolves any of the issues.
Any and all issues are simply hand-waved away with we'll sort it out afterwards. Dangerous idiots.
Cults don't lead people to the promised land.
marcella said:
One thing that bothers me is that people I know that are 'for' the SNP have just seen the recent scandal of NS as the tories trying to get her kicked out.
Perhaps you could tell these people that it was The SNP Scottish Government that set up the enquiry, not the 'Tories', and it was about why they wasted half-a-million pounds plus (and counting) on losing a legal case that was (allegedly) supposed to protect women from sexual harassment, but failed.It wasn't about getting Sturgeon kicked out (although if she was responsible for the failure she is rubbish at her job), but I honestly reckon you would be wasting your time.
Plus I don't think the people you are referring to are so much 'for the SNP' as 'for Nicola Sturgeon', as the two things are not quite the same thing.
marcella said:
Thanks for those that replied to my previous post, glad I'm not alone.
One thing that bothers me is that people I know that are 'for' the SNP have just seen the recent scandal of NS as the tories trying to get her kicked out. I can't believe that they cannot see she's in the wrong and yesterdays trial was an embarrassment (and not just for NS).
The other thing that bothers me slightly is I keep hearing from the rest of the UK on why we are idiots for wanting independence but I haven't heard them actually saying why they want to keep us. It would be nice to hear a bit more from the English especially on why they want us to remain and not bashing us for always putting our hands out and taking all 'their' money.
I'm English but also British and I think we would all be a lot poorer (not in the financial sense!) if we were to break up.One thing that bothers me is that people I know that are 'for' the SNP have just seen the recent scandal of NS as the tories trying to get her kicked out. I can't believe that they cannot see she's in the wrong and yesterdays trial was an embarrassment (and not just for NS).
The other thing that bothers me slightly is I keep hearing from the rest of the UK on why we are idiots for wanting independence but I haven't heard them actually saying why they want to keep us. It would be nice to hear a bit more from the English especially on why they want us to remain and not bashing us for always putting our hands out and taking all 'their' money.
As Great Britain (UK), we have (usually) been pretty successful in ever sense and to have rivalries between constituent parts would be madness.
Taking independence to it's logical conclusion why shouldn't a post UK Scotland be 'broken up' - independence for the Sheltlands, say.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Scottish_borde...
Remember all the Remainiac delaying and trying to deny the result of the EU referendum ...... Gina Miller & Co. Imagine all those shenanigans x1000!
To be honest, I don't think it will be allowed to happen, short of invasion by a third party......
The Act of Union (1707) is quite clear....
Article 1 states "That the Two Kingdoms of Scotland and England, shall upon the 1st May next ensuing the date hereof, and forever after, be United into One Kingdom by the Name of Great Britain."
So tough.
hidetheelephants said:
technodup said:
hidetheelephants said:
he SNP and some indy supporters do not want devomax or a federal settlement because they fear such a thing would significantly reduce any chance of full independence.
Devolution was supposed to reduce the chance of independence. It increased massively.
Would anyone really shed a tear if the likes of Ian Blackford were no longer wasting the Government's time every week? That's a very simple view, but the concept of not having to hear Scots say how terrible the English are all the time has solid traction.
I'd think the majority view in England is either stop voting for the SNP and engage with the rest of the UK constructively or off you pop.
WackyWeaver said:
Apparently SNP membership has increased by 5000 since yesterday.
'Apparently' indeed. Wings Over Bath said:
The idea that 7000 people suddenly joined the SNP last night on the strength of Nicola Sturgeon’s hollow bravura acting performance in front of the Fabiani inquiry is of course a complete and utter nonsense. It has no source and no evidence – we can’t find a single official SNP representative making the claim anywhere – and appears to have simply been plucked from thin air by a clutch of highly questionable accounts.
The SNP’s astroturfing operation has long been an embarrassment, but last night it hardly even bothered making the effort. A handful of accounts with 23 followers and six tweets in five years all announced they’d joined the party – just barely enough for MPs and activists to have several to retweet – and a scattered few punted the “7000” figure (along with the one poor sap who’d been fed the “10%” line instead) for the same reason, and lo and behold there was a handy distracting narrative.
https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-state-of-scotlan...The SNP’s astroturfing operation has long been an embarrassment, but last night it hardly even bothered making the effort. A handful of accounts with 23 followers and six tweets in five years all announced they’d joined the party – just barely enough for MPs and activists to have several to retweet – and a scattered few punted the “7000” figure (along with the one poor sap who’d been fed the “10%” line instead) for the same reason, and lo and behold there was a handy distracting narrative.
Roderick Spode said:
‘It has no source and no evidence – we can’t find a single official SNP representative making the claim anywhere – and appears to have simply been plucked from thin air by a clutch of highly questionable accounts’No source except for Keith Brown, SNP campaign director and according to his Twitter it is indeed 5000, not 7000 (then again they could still be increasing).
Evercross said:
WackyWeaver said:
Apparently SNP membership has increased by 5000 since yesterday.
Are you sure it wasn't 7000?After being seconded across to the USA for the trump rallies
The guy who did the counting for the AUOB (all under one braincell) marches is BACK in scotland
And is doing SNP membership numbers
Roderick Spode said:
WackyWeaver said:
Apparently SNP membership has increased by 5000 since yesterday.
'Apparently' indeed.I did once suspect Lim of possibly being Ross Colquhoun ("Twitter is everything") but I have acquired a new-found respect for Lim because of his (some admittedly deleted) Damascene moments during the last few weeks while I have been observing from the sidelines (and he even said he missed me
).So I now know for sure that Lim is too intelligent and could not be behind the most cack-handed attempts of recent days to get pro-Nicola hashtags trending. What with previously unheard-of alleged Scottish Government female employees all tweeting the precise-same wording regarding Alex Salmond's alleged behaviour, and now another bunch of zombie accounts all using exactly the same wording to declare how honourable Nicola is having known her since the age of 16.
Fake news SNP central, and it is so transparent it is tedious.
Edited by Evercross on Thursday 4th March 15:31
paulrockliffe said:
hidetheelephants said:
technodup said:
hidetheelephants said:
he SNP and some indy supporters do not want devomax or a federal settlement because they fear such a thing would significantly reduce any chance of full independence.
Devolution was supposed to reduce the chance of independence. It increased massively.
Would anyone really shed a tear if the likes of Ian Blackford were no longer wasting the Government's time every week? That's a very simple view, but the concept of not having to hear Scots say how terrible the English are all the time has solid traction.
I'd think the majority view in England is either stop voting for the SNP and engage with the rest of the UK constructively or off you pop.
Monsterlime said:
paulrockliffe said:
hidetheelephants said:
technodup said:
hidetheelephants said:
he SNP and some indy supporters do not want devomax or a federal settlement because they fear such a thing would significantly reduce any chance of full independence.
Devolution was supposed to reduce the chance of independence. It increased massively.
Would anyone really shed a tear if the likes of Ian Blackford were no longer wasting the Government's time every week? That's a very simple view, but the concept of not having to hear Scots say how terrible the English are all the time has solid traction.
I'd think the majority view in England is either stop voting for the SNP and engage with the rest of the UK constructively or off you pop.
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