Scottish Referendum / Independence - Vol 10

[is-uk]

The reality of Sturgeon's own constituency which technodup has been pointing out for some considerable time.... What a vote winner for her if only it was given more widespread attention across the country.

https://twitter.com/jgoffshore/status/138248092768...

[750turbo]

FREE BIKES, get yer FREE BIKES here...

it's getting silly now!

[csd19]

paulrockliffe said:

csd19 said:

I'd love to see where the money is going to come from for the decommissioning costs of all the rigs and pipelines in the North Sea, or will that be rUK's issue? Or the funds to make up the difference in income tax when the oil workers are out of a job and not paying 19%, 20%, 21% and 41% tax rates (and in a lot of cases, the additional 46%).


I've just completed my postal vote and away to place it in the hands of Royal Mail now.

One thing that struck me was I've still not received any arse paper from the SNP through the door - I've had stuff from Labour, Conservatives, LibDems and even the Scottish Family Party but nowt from Team Facepaint. I presume they think it's a nailed on victory here? (Angus).

I also discovered there is an Abolish the Scottish Parliament Party - "Abolish Scottish Parliament, Save £100,000,000 Yearly".

It's not that daft an idea, £100m is a lot of cash for a massively egotistical cooncil operation.

Is North Sea oil and gas a devolved competency? I've not checked, but it seems unlikely. And doesn't devolution of taxation only extend to taxes that actually exist, not making up new ones?

I had assumed it would be part of the divorce agreement to divvy up the decom costs so I would think the costs would be lumped in there?

Which new taxes are you referring to? The taxation rates I posted above are in place now.

[simoid]

sherman said:

Got the SNP arse paper here (Edinburgh south) today. Suprisingly no mention of independence on the leaflet. May just be coincedence but the other halfs postal vote also came in todays post.

Mine has a lot of policies etc but there’s a sneaky “two votes for SNP for another indyref” or something tucked in a corner.

[sherman]

Rangers: Police Scotland submit report amid allegations of assault & racial abuse - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56762114

Has this got caught up by Humza Uslesses Hate crime bill?

[rossub]

sherman said:

csd19 said:

One thing that struck me was I've still not received any arse paper from the SNP through the door - I've had stuff from Labour, Conservatives, LibDems and even the Scottish Family Party but nowt from Team Facepaint. I presume they think it's a nailed on victory here? (Angus).
.

Got the SNP arse paper here (Edinburgh south) today. Suprisingly no mention of independence on the leaflet. May just be coincedence but the other halfs postal vote also came in todays post.

Loads of SNP guff here... Conservative stronghold though.

Would just make me angry to read it, so it goes straight into recycling.

[Waitforme]

What I can’t understand is why the unionist parties do not give some easy hitting hard facts re independence.
I’ve not heard one comment on austerity / how difficult or nearly impossible it would be to rejoin the EU or for Scotland to balance its books ?

I quote a lot of the stuff from this thread to my wife. But she is now thinking that PH must be making it up as no unionist politician ever gives NS a hard time on the massive austerity that would be needed come “freeeduuum” and that it wouldn’t be the utopia reported by the nats.

[simoid]

We did... in 2014. Now it’s sort of phoney war. Sturgeon doesn’t actually say that independence is X or Y, just that Scotland should decide (again) and not English/Tories/Boris. It doesn’t really appear on the debating battleground.

[alangla]

Anyone seen the actual legislative changes for today's easing of travel restrictions? Normally something would appear on https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi some time between lunchtime and about 23:45 the night before but I can't see anything since some fairly vanilla parking restrictions on trunk roads that were published earlier in the week

EDIT - this appeared some time between my original posting & 10:40 this morning, i.e. AFTER it became law - https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2021/186/conten...

Edited by alangla on Friday 16th April 10:41

[aparna]

Caught the sturgeon interview on c4 last night. She confirmed no economic analysis before a referendum is scheduled. The growth report is uselessly out of date in a post covid world.

So order is

Win mandate at election
Schedule referendum
Produce economic analysis at that moment

I can sort of see logic given we’ve seen how events like oil revenues and covid both upturned the situation so quickly.

On other hand it’s obvious they are obscuring any detail, and we are not allowed to see the half finished education report prior to the election either. So do voters have enough info to cast an informed vote?

[Leithen]

This has been quietly slipped out by ScotGov as a draft for "engagement with stakeholders".

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covi...

Whilst the rest of the UK gets on with restoring normal society, ScotGov is attempting to entrench a system that would permanently restrict every form of public gathering.

SARS-CoV-2 is endemic. Testing will continue to find it regardless of the threat of the disease COVID-19. Physical Distance Based Capacity (PDBC) needs to be challenged and prevented from becoming implemented.

[Pastor Of Muppets]

aparna said:

Caught the sturgeon interview on c4 last night. She confirmed no economic analysis before a referendum is scheduled. The growth report is uselessly out of date in a post covid world.

So order is

Win mandate at election
Schedule referendum
Produce economic analysis at that moment

I can sort of see logic given we’ve seen how events like oil revenues and covid both upturned the situation so quickly.

On other hand it’s obvious they are obscuring any detail, and we are not allowed to see the half finished education report prior to the election either. So do voters have enough info to cast an informed vote?

You can see it here... https://twitter.com/i/status/1382935542577430529

Does she actually believe the majority of Scots are so thick they will fall for this level of BS,
or has someone left the gates open at Carstairs yet again.

[alangla]

Leithen said:

This has been quietly slipped out by ScotGov as a draft for "engagement with stakeholders".

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covi...

Whilst the rest of the UK gets on with restoring normal society, ScotGov is attempting to entrench a system that would permanently restrict every form of public gathering.

SARS-CoV-2 is endemic. Testing will continue to find it regardless of the threat of the disease COVID-19. Physical Distance Based Capacity (PDBC) needs to be challenged and prevented from becoming implemented.

Is this really a surprise? The "near normal" Tier/Level 0 includes compulsory masks on public transport and presumably the other places they're currently required and things like nightclubs closed.

In terms of what it describes for places of worship etc, I suspect this probably actually makes more sense short term than the current arrangement where enormous churches are limited to a max 50 attendees, even though they'd normally hold several hundred.

As much as the current lunacy is just about bearable in the short term, as I said on the main CV thread, it worries me that Sturgeon has never stated an end point for any of this, unlike Johnson. Whether Johnson delivers an end in June or not is a different question, but I've never seen any suggestion that Sturgeon ever intends to go closer to normal than the "Level 0" abomination.

Edit to add - I've read this in a bit more detail: I'm sure DF Concerts are doing cartwheels at the prospect of TRNSMT going ahead in September with 1000 in the audience. The SECC must also be looking forward to cramming 400 people into the Hydro for acts like Elton John.

The Scottish events industry should really just call in the receivers now - it's completely & utterly fked.

Edited by alangla on Friday 16th April 10:39

[sherman]

Sturgeon was saying yesterday that the referendum was due in the second half of the parliment. She wanted to concentrate on covid first and the recovery from that. Reading into thst she expects to be controlling things for a few years yet.

[roadtripboy]

Waitforme said:

What I can’t understand is why the unionist parties do not give some easy hitting hard facts re independence.
I’ve not heard one comment on austerity / how difficult or nearly impossible it would be to rejoin the EU or for Scotland to balance its books ?

I quote a lot of the stuff from this thread to my wife. But she is now thinking that PH must be making it up as no unionist politician ever gives NS a hard time on the massive austerity that would be needed come “freeeduuum” and that it wouldn’t be the utopia reported by the nats.

Also that, irrespective of the perception that “Nicola has done better at Covid than Boris”, if we’d voted Yes last time round, we’d be fked dealing with the pandemic.

Not to mention that Alex Salmond (who they’re all trying to pretend they’ve never liked) would probably still be Prime Minister (at least) of an iScotland.

[csd19]

alangla said:

Leithen said:

This has been quietly slipped out by ScotGov as a draft for "engagement with stakeholders".

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coronavirus-covi...

Whilst the rest of the UK gets on with restoring normal society, ScotGov is attempting to entrench a system that would permanently restrict every form of public gathering.

SARS-CoV-2 is endemic. Testing will continue to find it regardless of the threat of the disease COVID-19. Physical Distance Based Capacity (PDBC) needs to be challenged and prevented from becoming implemented.

Is this really a surprise? The "near normal" Tier/Level 0 includes compulsory masks on public transport and presumably the other places they're currently required and things like nightclubs closed.

In terms of what it describes for places of worship etc, I suspect this probably actually makes more sense short term than the current arrangement where enormous churches are limited to a max 50 attendees, even though they'd normally hold several hundred.

As much as the current lunacy is just about bearable in the short term, as I said on the main CV thread, it worries me that Sturgeon has never stated an end point for any of this, unlike Johnson. Whether Johnson delivers an end in June or not is a different question, but I've never seen any suggestion that Sturgeon ever intends to go closer to normal than the "Level 0" abomination.

Edit to add - I've read this in a bit more detail: I'm sure DF Concerts are doing cartwheels at the prospect of TRNSMT going ahead in September with 1000 in the audience. The SECC must also be looking forward to cramming 400 people into the Hydro for acts like Elton John.

The Scottish events industry should really just call in the receivers now - it's completely & utterly fked.

Edited by alangla on Friday 16th April 10:39

I said a while back that I couldn't find any mention of a plan to get back to Tier minus 1 aka normal pre-covid life on Scotgov. Looks like they intend to keep it that way now. Clever way to continue with the control freakery and meddling by pretending tier 0 is normal.

And sadly I expect the majority to just accept this from Kim Jong Sturgeon.

[AstonZagato]

Pastor Of Muppets said:

aparna said:

Caught the sturgeon interview on c4 last night. She confirmed no economic analysis before a referendum is scheduled. The growth report is uselessly out of date in a post covid world.

So order is

Win mandate at election
Schedule referendum
Produce economic analysis at that moment

I can sort of see logic given we’ve seen how events like oil revenues and covid both upturned the situation so quickly.

On other hand it’s obvious they are obscuring any detail, and we are not allowed to see the half finished education report prior to the election either. So do voters have enough info to cast an informed vote?

You can see it here... https://twitter.com/i/status/1382935542577430529

Does she actually believe the majority of Scots are so thick they will fall for this level of BS,
or has someone left the gates open at Carstairs yet again.

They have learnt the lessons of IndyRef1 and Brexit.

For IndyRef!, they issued the hilarious white paper that was instantly ripped to shreds as a collection of preposterous claims that either suggested the SNP had zero understanding of economics or were trying to lie to the electorate. They attempted to brand any criticism as "Project Fear" or that those pointing out the fallacious nature of the claims thought Scotland was "too wee and too poor". It didn't work, except with the faithful - and they didn't need persuading.

The Leave/Brexit campaign, on the other hand, made very little of a coherent plan. They concentrated on the concept and left the details out. It won the day (though it left a nightmare to be sorted out.

I believe, in IndyRef2 (if it happens), the SNP will go the same way as Leave did - appeal only to emotion and stay away from economics because that is a battleground on which they will be slaughtered.

[csd19]

AstonZagato said:

Pastor Of Muppets said:

aparna said:

Caught the sturgeon interview on c4 last night. She confirmed no economic analysis before a referendum is scheduled. The growth report is uselessly out of date in a post covid world.

So order is

Win mandate at election
Schedule referendum
Produce economic analysis at that moment

I can sort of see logic given we’ve seen how events like oil revenues and covid both upturned the situation so quickly.

On other hand it’s obvious they are obscuring any detail, and we are not allowed to see the half finished education report prior to the election either. So do voters have enough info to cast an informed vote?

You can see it here... https://twitter.com/i/status/1382935542577430529

Does she actually believe the majority of Scots are so thick they will fall for this level of BS,
or has someone left the gates open at Carstairs yet again.

They have learnt the lessons of IndyRef1 and Brexit.

For IndyRef!, they issued the hilarious white paper that was instantly ripped to shreds as a collection of preposterous claims that either suggested the SNP had zero understanding of economics or were trying to lie to the electorate. They attempted to brand any criticism as "Project Fear" or that those pointing out the fallacious nature of the claims thought Scotland was "too wee and too poor". It didn't work, except with the faithful - and they didn't need persuading.

The Leave/Brexit campaign, on the other hand, made very little of a coherent plan. They concentrated on the concept and left the details out. It won the day (though it left a nightmare to be sorted out.

I believe, in IndyRef2 (if it happens), the SNP will go the same way as Leave did - appeal only to emotion and stay away from economics because that is a battleground on which they will be slaughtered .

My bold, but I believe the SNP have already stated that is their intention this time round, ignore the facts and just seed boners of shortbread and tartan.

[simoid]

In fairness, I think I recall level 0 as being “near normal” or minimum level of restrictions before mass vaccination or something. When that is removed though is anyone’s guess. Probably in 2028 so they can have their referendum “some time in the next parliament...”

Edited by simoid on Friday 16th April 11:39

[Ecosseven]

AstonZagato said:

They have learnt the lessons of IndyRef1 and Brexit.

For IndyRef!, they issued the hilarious white paper that was instantly ripped to shreds as a collection of preposterous claims that either suggested the SNP had zero understanding of economics or were trying to lie to the electorate. They attempted to brand any criticism as "Project Fear" or that those pointing out the fallacious nature of the claims thought Scotland was "too wee and too poor". It didn't work, except with the faithful - and they didn't need persuading.

The Leave/Brexit campaign, on the other hand, made very little of a coherent plan. They concentrated on the concept and left the details out. It won the day (though it left a nightmare to be sorted out.

I believe, in IndyRef2 (if it happens), the SNP will go the same way as Leave did - appeal only to emotion and stay away from economics because that is a battleground on which they will be slaughtered.

Good post. I just hope that if there is a second indyref that the unionists come up with a way to present the facts and figures and avoid the accusations of "project fear".