CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 9)
Discussion
The Spectator have reported on that study disputing the effectiveness of lockdown
Spectator said:
Dr Eran Bendavid and Professor John Ioannidis studied the imposition of ‘non-pharmaceutical interventions’ (NPIs) in ten countries and have reached the conclusion that while less-restrictive NPIs (which include social distancing and appeals to the public to reduce their social activities) had a clear effect, more-restrictive NPIs (which include business closures and stay at home orders) produced no clear additional benefits.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/which-lockdown-measures-work-JagLover said:
The Spectator have reported on that study disputing the effectiveness of lockdown
It needs evidence like that to have a hope, but the idea of saying that restrictions aren't working as intended means we need more restrictions, is foolish. Compliance is what matters not the wording of covid laws or associated guidance. Lockdown is just a word without high levels of compliance, so it's hardly surprising to find evidence from Oxford/Blavatnik to Bendavid/ /Ioannidis.Spectator said:
Dr Eran Bendavid and Professor John Ioannidis studied the imposition of ‘non-pharmaceutical interventions’ (NPIs) in ten countries and have reached the conclusion that while less-restrictive NPIs (which include social distancing and appeals to the public to reduce their social activities) had a clear effect, more-restrictive NPIs (which include business closures and stay at home orders) produced no clear additional benefits.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/which-lockdown-measures-work-turbobloke said:
JagLover said:
The Spectator have reported on that study disputing the effectiveness of lockdown
It needs evidence like that to have a hope, but the idea of saying that restrictions aren't working as intended means we need more restrictions, is foolish. Compliance is what matters not the wording of covid laws or associated guidance. Lockdown is just a word without high levels of compliance, so it's hardly surprising to find evidence from Oxford/Blavatnik to Bendavid/ /Ioannidis.Spectator said:
Dr Eran Bendavid and Professor John Ioannidis studied the imposition of ‘non-pharmaceutical interventions’ (NPIs) in ten countries and have reached the conclusion that while less-restrictive NPIs (which include social distancing and appeals to the public to reduce their social activities) had a clear effect, more-restrictive NPIs (which include business closures and stay at home orders) produced no clear additional benefits.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/which-lockdown-measures-work-The Government would still do it because they have locked themselves in this path now.
My concerns still are why we are not having balanced debate in the media, this really is the Government taking over the narrative here and effectively brain washing the people.
I went out this morning to take my Wife to get her car repaired. Roads were really quiet. Second trip out this lock down aside from the odd day where I've gone to work.
I honestly think traffic is 30-40% of normal levels especially around rush hour, I see people saying that people are not "STAYING AT HOME AND PROTECTING THE NHS" and I think how is that when in my experience roads are significantly quieter.
I hate life
V1nce Fox said:
Am I missing it or is the government currently not being scrutinised in any formal, political way about ongoing and additional measures/restrictions?
It seems as though all political discourse and debate has been stopped dead.
Well the rebellious Tory backbenchers are mainly concerned with getting all the vulnerable vaccinated at present. At some stage the conflict between when they think we can loosen up and when the government thinks we can loosen up, is going to erupt. Bearing in mind the latter seems to be quietly making preparations for this to drag on well into May. It seems as though all political discourse and debate has been stopped dead.
V1nce Fox said:
Am I missing it or is the government currently not being scrutinised in any formal, political way about ongoing and additional measures/restrictions?
It seems as though all political discourse and debate has been stopped dead.
True. It's why this episode will prove so divisive. It's not a slam dunk like defending against the Nazis in 1940. There are arguments on both sides, but one thing for sure is that the cost is unlike anything the country has experienced in peacetime at least, that the tab is yet to be picked up, and that it will impact lives, health, public services and quality of life for the next 20 years. It seems as though all political discourse and debate has been stopped dead.
V1nce Fox said:
Am I missing it or is the government currently not being scrutinised in any formal, political way about ongoing and additional measures/restrictions?
It seems as though all political discourse and debate has been stopped dead.
You are correct. TalkRADIO used to, but no longer because apparently when they got de platformed on Youtube now advertisers don't want to touch them so they have to tow the party line.It seems as though all political discourse and debate has been stopped dead.
JHB is still posting on Twitter about it but I don't believe they are being anywhere near as vocal as they used to be certainly live on air.
Great shame really, she (and others) were really excellent but until they stop being "another MSM outlet" I'm not listening to them. I liked the cross examination.
turbobloke said:
JagLover said:
The Spectator have reported on that study disputing the effectiveness of lockdown
It needs evidence like that to have a hope, but the idea of saying that restrictions aren't working as intended means we need more restrictions, is foolish. Compliance is what matters not the wording of covid laws or associated guidance. Lockdown is just a word without high levels of compliance, so it's hardly surprising to find evidence from Oxford/Blavatnik to Bendavid/ /Ioannidis.Spectator said:
Dr Eran Bendavid and Professor John Ioannidis studied the imposition of ‘non-pharmaceutical interventions’ (NPIs) in ten countries and have reached the conclusion that while less-restrictive NPIs (which include social distancing and appeals to the public to reduce their social activities) had a clear effect, more-restrictive NPIs (which include business closures and stay at home orders) produced no clear additional benefits.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/which-lockdown-measures-work-Compliance with coronavirus rules has risen sharply since December and is now at its highest point since the first lockdown, according to a major new survey seen by Sky News.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-compliance-wit...
320d is all you need said:
V1nce Fox said:
Am I missing it or is the government currently not being scrutinised in any formal, political way about ongoing and additional measures/restrictions?
It seems as though all political discourse and debate has been stopped dead.
You are correct. TalkRADIO used to, but no longer because apparently when they got de platformed on Youtube now advertisers don't want to touch them so they have to tow the party line.It seems as though all political discourse and debate has been stopped dead.
JHB is still posting on Twitter about it but I don't believe they are being anywhere near as vocal as they used to be certainly live on air.
Great shame really, she (and others) were really excellent but until they stop being "another MSM outlet" I'm not listening to them. I liked the cross examination.
JagLover said:
320d is all you need said:
V1nce Fox said:
Am I missing it or is the government currently not being scrutinised in any formal, political way about ongoing and additional measures/restrictions?
It seems as though all political discourse and debate has been stopped dead.
You are correct. TalkRADIO used to, but no longer because apparently when they got de platformed on Youtube now advertisers don't want to touch them so they have to tow the party line.It seems as though all political discourse and debate has been stopped dead.
JHB is still posting on Twitter about it but I don't believe they are being anywhere near as vocal as they used to be certainly live on air.
Great shame really, she (and others) were really excellent but until they stop being "another MSM outlet" I'm not listening to them. I liked the cross examination.
320d is all you need said:
turbobloke said:
JagLover said:
The Spectator have reported on that study disputing the effectiveness of lockdown
It needs evidence like that to have a hope, but the idea of saying that restrictions aren't working as intended means we need more restrictions, is foolish. Compliance is what matters not the wording of covid laws or associated guidance. Lockdown is just a word without high levels of compliance, so it's hardly surprising to find evidence from Oxford/Blavatnik to Bendavid/ /Ioannidis.Spectator said:
Dr Eran Bendavid and Professor John Ioannidis studied the imposition of ‘non-pharmaceutical interventions’ (NPIs) in ten countries and have reached the conclusion that while less-restrictive NPIs (which include social distancing and appeals to the public to reduce their social activities) had a clear effect, more-restrictive NPIs (which include business closures and stay at home orders) produced no clear additional benefits.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/which-lockdown-measures-work-The Government would still do it because they have locked themselves in this path now.
My concerns still are why we are not having balanced debate in the media, this really is the Government taking over the narrative here and effectively brain washing the people.
I went out this morning to take my Wife to get her car repaired. Roads were really quiet. Second trip out this lock down aside from the odd day where I've gone to work.
I honestly think traffic is 30-40% of normal levels especially around rush hour, I see people saying that people are not "STAYING AT HOME AND PROTECTING THE NHS" and I think how is that when in my experience roads are significantly quieter.
I hate life
The govt will tighten the lockdown and restrictions purely for political reason so they can say they “acted when the numbers dictated it” and that they’re “following the science” and “making the right decisions at the right time”.
Little tweaks won’t make much difference at this stage in the proceedings, and even they know it, but the perception of them asserting control is very much part of the PR strategy.
A bit of good news this morning. Signs that hospital admissions may have peaked in London:
https://www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/update-13-jan-co...
This was apparent in the data reported yesterday, but the admission data on the Govt dashboard is quite laggy. There is also around a 1 week gap between any reduction in cases and a corresponding reduction in admissions.
This is too early to be attributed to the 5th Jan lockdown and the impact of this will begin to be seen next week:
I think we now have overwhelming evidence that this is not a single monolithic epidemic that grows relentless without restrictions. The London and South East 'third wave' started in the middle of lockdown 2 and is (I hope) abating regardless of changes in restrictions.
https://www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/update-13-jan-co...
This was apparent in the data reported yesterday, but the admission data on the Govt dashboard is quite laggy. There is also around a 1 week gap between any reduction in cases and a corresponding reduction in admissions.
This is too early to be attributed to the 5th Jan lockdown and the impact of this will begin to be seen next week:
I think we now have overwhelming evidence that this is not a single monolithic epidemic that grows relentless without restrictions. The London and South East 'third wave' started in the middle of lockdown 2 and is (I hope) abating regardless of changes in restrictions.
RickSanchez said:
turbobloke said:
JagLover said:
The Spectator have reported on that study disputing the effectiveness of lockdown
It needs evidence like that to have a hope, but the idea of saying that restrictions aren't working as intended means we need more restrictions, is foolish. Compliance is what matters not the wording of covid laws or associated guidance. Lockdown is just a word without high levels of compliance, so it's hardly surprising to find evidence from Oxford/Blavatnik to Bendavid/ /Ioannidis.Spectator said:
Dr Eran Bendavid and Professor John Ioannidis studied the imposition of ‘non-pharmaceutical interventions’ (NPIs) in ten countries and have reached the conclusion that while less-restrictive NPIs (which include social distancing and appeals to the public to reduce their social activities) had a clear effect, more-restrictive NPIs (which include business closures and stay at home orders) produced no clear additional benefits.
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/which-lockdown-measures-work-Compliance with coronavirus rules has risen sharply since December and is now at its highest point since the first lockdown, according to a major new survey seen by Sky News.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-compliance-wit...
V1nce Fox said:
Agreed, JHB independently is still valuable, but I was thinking about the political process more specifically. I'm seeing little scrutiny from anywhere in the house at this point. It feels very much as though parliament has failed us at a very fundamental level.
Apologies for the mis understanding.I believe 16 Conservative MP's refused to agree with the new policies, I saw one was being rather publically chastised for it but I can't find the link.
The problem is politically it's very hard.
Government have always put the NHS in the Public Eye as the crown jewels. Now they have painted that the lockdown is to SAVE THE NHS and through insane levels of testing (and of course some natural increase of Winter pressures not to mention Covid does genuinely impact some people) have now put the country in the position that the NHS is literally going to fall over and if you get ill you won't get treatment.
So by going against the Government they are making it so the public think you are effectively supporting the failure of the NHS and wanting people to die.
We'll ignore the part where currently and since February 2020 we have not been able to get treatment.
RickSanchez said:
Posted this at end of last thread just as it was being closed
Compliance with coronavirus rules has risen sharply since December and is now at its highest point since the first lockdown, according to a major new survey seen by Sky News.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-compliance-wit...
Yet there are still people, as evidenced on here, who are absolutely determined to peddle the "it's all your fault" line of thinking towards anyone who is a sceptic of the current measures. Poo at Paul's on another thread within the last 30 minutes for instance. Compliance with coronavirus rules has risen sharply since December and is now at its highest point since the first lockdown, according to a major new survey seen by Sky News.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-compliance-wit...
I really believe that this has given that kind of person the perfect opportunity to display their superciliousness, sanctimony and smugness. There is undoubtedly a lot of enjoyment being gleaned from being able to tell everyone how s
t they are. JagLover said:
320d is all you need said:
V1nce Fox said:
Am I missing it or is the government currently not being scrutinised in any formal, political way about ongoing and additional measures/restrictions?
It seems as though all political discourse and debate has been stopped dead.
You are correct. TalkRADIO used to, but no longer because apparently when they got de platformed on Youtube now advertisers don't want to touch them so they have to tow the party line.It seems as though all political discourse and debate has been stopped dead.
JHB is still posting on Twitter about it but I don't believe they are being anywhere near as vocal as they used to be certainly live on air.
Great shame really, she (and others) were really excellent but until they stop being "another MSM outlet" I'm not listening to them. I liked the cross examination.
Desmond Swayne and Laurence Fox are still very vocal in their anti lockdown stance.
Where the hell is Farage?
RickSanchez said:
Posted this at end of last thread just as it was being closed
Compliance with coronavirus rules has risen sharply since December and is now at its highest point since the first lockdown, according to a major new survey seen by Sky News.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-compliance-wit...
I posted it yesterday when it came up on sky news immediately after the no10 press briefing. Great timing. Sky news is a weird one. Some of the presenters/anchors are scaremongering where others are very objective and explain the pandemic figures accurately. It’s as though they have not been bothering with editorial meetings and each shift doing their own thing.Compliance with coronavirus rules has risen sharply since December and is now at its highest point since the first lockdown, according to a major new survey seen by Sky News.
https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-compliance-wit...
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