45th President of the United States, Donald Trump (Vol. 12)
Discussion
Benni said:
Glad to see Byker back.
I think this thread and it´s predecessors, created and contributed in a UK forum, is important to me,reading in Germany,
because it documents the rise, reign and fall of a US president who definitely changed the US climate of politics.
Born in West-Berlin just before the wall was built, I always had an ambivalent relationship to the US,
on one side they were the good guys liberating Europe from NS fascism ( with the allies ),
on the other side I had strong opposing thoughts about the way internal ( human rights, McCarthyism, Black Power, etc )
and external conflicts ( Banana Republics, Vietnam etc. ) were handled by various US governments.
Eventually I found that I was living about 80Km away from Ground Zero of the first nuclear response to a potential USSR attack,
and after WW3 my country maybe would be free, but quite molten to the ground.
I never saw "The Apprentice" on TV so Trump´s running for candidate was the first time I actually saw him,
and -like many others- thought he was a bad joke, a caricature of a politician.
Then I saw him gathering momentum within the party, wiping out his opponents in reps and dems,
and winning the election, with slogans, attitudes and actions I never thought possible....and a bit chav,
a word I learned in PH.
Then I was surprised how he continued to change the way US politics were made, and communicated,
by press conferences and twitter broadsides, and how "America First" became "Me and my family / buddies first" .
During his term, I still had some hope and confidence in the US parliament and legal system to put a brakeshoe in,
but this confidence dwindled more and more, with parliament blocked and legal personnel exchanged for his favour.
I thought "will he ever get away with this", and had doubts that Biden could win against him,
but it seems the majority of voters had doubts about Trump´s ability to handle problems and have a perspective.
Now that he is out of the White House, and out of presidential power & immunity,
I think the work of prosecutors is not only about "catching him" for his wrongdoings,
but this work is also building confidence in the US legal system where all people should be treated equal,
regardless of their financial power or "good friends in high places", even if this reads a bit idealistic.
I regard Trump as a historical figure, a "tipping point" ,
want to see if his way of lying, bullying and cheating will see him as a rehabilitated man in future, or as a convicted criminal, and hope for the latter.
I consider this important not only for US history, but also for other countries, where "little Trumps" have come to power,
or are trying to gain power by copying his "style", catching the masses of voters with cheap and dirty slogans
instead of describing problems and searching for perspectives into the future even if this is more complex and complicated.
That´s why this thread, with Byker´s and others´ contributions, is important to me,
it also is a "one-stop shop" for information not found in Germany.
^^^ good post! As already pointed out there were foundations there before Trump got in but other than that I agreed totally.I think this thread and it´s predecessors, created and contributed in a UK forum, is important to me,reading in Germany,
because it documents the rise, reign and fall of a US president who definitely changed the US climate of politics.
Born in West-Berlin just before the wall was built, I always had an ambivalent relationship to the US,
on one side they were the good guys liberating Europe from NS fascism ( with the allies ),
on the other side I had strong opposing thoughts about the way internal ( human rights, McCarthyism, Black Power, etc )
and external conflicts ( Banana Republics, Vietnam etc. ) were handled by various US governments.
Eventually I found that I was living about 80Km away from Ground Zero of the first nuclear response to a potential USSR attack,
and after WW3 my country maybe would be free, but quite molten to the ground.
I never saw "The Apprentice" on TV so Trump´s running for candidate was the first time I actually saw him,
and -like many others- thought he was a bad joke, a caricature of a politician.
Then I saw him gathering momentum within the party, wiping out his opponents in reps and dems,
and winning the election, with slogans, attitudes and actions I never thought possible....and a bit chav,
a word I learned in PH.
Then I was surprised how he continued to change the way US politics were made, and communicated,
by press conferences and twitter broadsides, and how "America First" became "Me and my family / buddies first" .
During his term, I still had some hope and confidence in the US parliament and legal system to put a brakeshoe in,
but this confidence dwindled more and more, with parliament blocked and legal personnel exchanged for his favour.
I thought "will he ever get away with this", and had doubts that Biden could win against him,
but it seems the majority of voters had doubts about Trump´s ability to handle problems and have a perspective.
Now that he is out of the White House, and out of presidential power & immunity,
I think the work of prosecutors is not only about "catching him" for his wrongdoings,
but this work is also building confidence in the US legal system where all people should be treated equal,
regardless of their financial power or "good friends in high places", even if this reads a bit idealistic.
I regard Trump as a historical figure, a "tipping point" ,
want to see if his way of lying, bullying and cheating will see him as a rehabilitated man in future, or as a convicted criminal, and hope for the latter.
I consider this important not only for US history, but also for other countries, where "little Trumps" have come to power,
or are trying to gain power by copying his "style", catching the masses of voters with cheap and dirty slogans
instead of describing problems and searching for perspectives into the future even if this is more complex and complicated.
That´s why this thread, with Byker´s and others´ contributions, is important to me,
it also is a "one-stop shop" for information not found in Germany.
Trump didn't just break the invisible moral code the office of the Presidency was supposed to stand for, he showed the world how one man given too much power (AKA a president) and no real control can impact on literally the whole world. This 'aftermath' needs to show that a) it can never happen again and b) it was a one-off. Punishment needs to be very real and lasting.
If the US brushes the GOPs 'Trump experiment' under the carpet then it will almost certainly happen again, and far worse. I still think the US were very lucky with Trump; imagine someone competent in the same position with the same aims! If the GOP had elevated someone with true ambition they would be looking at a dictatorship at this stage (IMHO).
Al Gorithum said:
Welcome back Byker and Kinky. Decent info in a sea of garbage.
I wonder if any of the Useful Idiots bothered to read Tartan Pixy's excellent piece on indoctrination a few pages back?
I did, thought it good. It also raises the points about disinformation agents specifically targetting popular UK websites and forums to spread discontentment, it's not just the usual trolls seeking to have their 'fun'.I wonder if any of the Useful Idiots bothered to read Tartan Pixy's excellent piece on indoctrination a few pages back?
Hence one suspects the strange few accounts that posted on here the last couple of days...that have never posted before...
Russia is very advanced with cyber warefare, as are the isralis and the chinese to a certain extent. The US and UK as well, but it's the russian bot farms that have taken political interference to a new level. We saw the startings of it with Brexit, lots of it with social media manipulation with trumps 2016 election campaign, it wasn't just Cambridge Analytica, which is why all that polling data Manafort handed over to the russians was so important. It allowed them to target Dem voters with disinformation, spread misinformation etc.
They've taken it to new levels to sow dischord in the west, we saw it also in the european elections, even interfering in african politics. It's a very cheap effective method of warfare. PH isn't immune.
Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 23 June 11:54
former guy shouts at clouds again
I'm not allowed to post the screenshot of his statement, and I'm not going to drive traffic to his site, but trump claims that he didn't ask the DOJ to go after SNL (which means he did), whilst claiming it should be illegal, a Dem campaign contribution, repeated the Qanon claim he'd be back in 2024 or before...
not forgetting to mention the 75m votes he got, which after all was significantly less that Biden....
I'm not allowed to post the screenshot of his statement, and I'm not going to drive traffic to his site, but trump claims that he didn't ask the DOJ to go after SNL (which means he did), whilst claiming it should be illegal, a Dem campaign contribution, repeated the Qanon claim he'd be back in 2024 or before...
not forgetting to mention the 75m votes he got, which after all was significantly less that Biden....
AW111 said:
"I'm going in Porkins - Cover me"AW111 said:
It's a slippery slope that leads from having a Bee in the Bonnet about something to being Bats in the Belfry over it. I'd suggest that this individual should just get out more.
AW111 said:
Not anymoreETA - before I get accused of bias, or being Anti-Trump, or pro-Byker, or somesuch nonsense, it was not me. I did not know about that thread until it had been removed by another mod, as part of routine modding.
Edited by Kinky on Wednesday 23 June 16:40
Kinky said:
AW111 said:
Not anymore
Oops!
I know this is somewhat off-topic, but I just don't understand the hatred from some posters.
I assume some of the new accounts are sock-puppets, but they can't all be.
And why do they keep posting stuff that gets them banned?
I've had mutiple arguments with some members, and had one post removed, IIRC, for calling someone an idiot.
It's not that hard to fight your corner while staying within posting guidelines - although it is tempting to say what I really think about some posters, that would get me banned faster than an England batting collapse
I assume some of the new accounts are sock-puppets, but they can't all be.
And why do they keep posting stuff that gets them banned?
I've had mutiple arguments with some members, and had one post removed, IIRC, for calling someone an idiot.
It's not that hard to fight your corner while staying within posting guidelines - although it is tempting to say what I really think about some posters, that would get me banned faster than an England batting collapse
Kinky said:
AW111 said:
Not anymoreETA - before I get accused of bias, or being Anti-Trump, or pro-Byker, or somesuch nonsense, it was not me. I did not know about that thread until it had been removed by another mod, as part of routine modding.
Edited by Kinky on Wednesday 23 June 16:40
I would have reported it - but it's gone during my commute home.
Remember kids, it's us that apparently are obsessed. Well I might fit the profile as having a morbid fascination of living through a piece of US history. Like Nixon, the moon landings, 9/11 and now the most corrupt president ever...
Edit: weird the fascination, and I posted what I thought was some sensible suggestions about minor infraction moderation. One would have thought they were all over that, but I guess it's like a GOP voter, they only want the rules to apply to others not them
After all he was one mentioned as getting me banned from the Biden thread.Edited by Byker28i on Wednesday 23 June 17:29
Meanwhile, the Washington post has an article on the Arizona fraudit, pointing out that nothing abnormal was found according to true objective observers, it's just another exercise to push trumps Big Lie and further undermine US electoral process, while they try to eliminate democratic voters.
The article going into much more detail is here
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/06/21...
The article going into much more detail is here
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/06/21...
Meanwhile a GOP investigation ( yes another one) has found no fraud in Michigan and has called many of the claims ludicrous, no ballot dumps, no dead people voting
Should you wish to read the article, it's here
https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/gop-i...
So the only fraud found so far has been just a few and all Republicans, voting twice like Trump told them too...
Should you wish to read the article, it's here
https://www.bridgemi.com/michigan-government/gop-i...
So the only fraud found so far has been just a few and all Republicans, voting twice like Trump told them too...
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