The EU v UK vaccine tussle

[anonymous-user]

JQ said:

Very interesting, cheers for that.

The numbers for Australia and New Zealand are staggering. Are they planning to just keep their borders closed for the next 10 years? Do they not have any vaccine at all?

They dont have their own supply sources. They have just started to vaccinate.

UK being a major tech based economy is paying off with respect to vaccines and future proofing for variants.

What blows the mind is how countries like France and Germany have got this so wrong, they have no excuses you could allow somewhere like Australia.

[NextSlidePlease]

So in Ireland they arent giving the AZ vaccine to the over 65's still, but with the Scottish figures being released a few days ago showing its effectiveness in this age group there are calls to reverse this
decision.

Edited by NextSlidePlease on Tuesday 23 February 11:06

[scjgreen]

JQ said:

Very interesting, cheers for that.

The numbers for Australia and New Zealand are staggering. Are they planning to just keep their borders closed for the next 10 years? Do they not have any vaccine at all?

Even crazier considering they just had a Rugby Match with the Stadium at 80% Capacity (20k/25k)

[anonymous-user]

Wombat3 said:

Vaccinations have just started in Aus and they are standing up a factory to make 50M+ doses of the AZ vaccine - it should start to come on line in March. I'd be surprised if they didn't then supply NZ & Polynesia etc.

Thats good news on the new manufacturing plant. India will be churning out huge quantities soon too.

[anonymous-user]

NextSlidePlease said:

So in Ireland they arent giving the AZ vaccine to the over 65's still, but with the Scottish figures being released a few days ago showing its effectiveness in this age group there are calls to reverse this
decision.

Edited by NextSlidePlease on Tuesday 23 February 11:06

Hopefully the people start kicking the politicians in the sponge and sort this madness out.

[NRS]

MiniMan64 said:

So has the European stance on the AZ jab changed given the data from yesterday? Or are they still playing politics on that one?

I'm also intrigued given the announcements yesterday and the apparent 300% surge in holiday bookings whether that will still be possible from the European side of things?

I never saw any mention of the new Scotland data yesterday - it looks to have been completely ignored/not mentioned by the media (and politicians) over here.

JQ said:

Very interesting, cheers for that.

The numbers for Australia and New Zealand are staggering. Are they planning to just keep their borders closed for the next 10 years? Do they not have any vaccine at all?

They have some ordered from Europe. I think it wasn't due to start until March proper. From what I have heard from my girlfriend there is a lot of people who are "anti-vaxx" for corona, as they are basically open as usual apart from the tourist lot. So for many they see no change in their life from corona, which seems to have resulted in no desire to take a vaccine given the lack of consequences for not doing so. Of course there is some desperate for it to be able to travel, who have their business dependent on tourism, but they seem to be pretty limited in numbers.

scjgreen said:

Even crazier considering they just had a Rugby Match with the Stadium at 80% Capacity (20k/25k)

There is super strict rules getting into the country, so they basically have no corona internally, which means stuff can be open like normal for the most part.

Edited by NRS on Tuesday 23 February 11:11

[Wombat3]

jsf said:

Wombat3 said:

Vaccinations have just started in Aus and they are standing up a factory to make 50M+ doses of the AZ vaccine - it should start to come on line in March. I'd be surprised if they didn't then supply NZ & Polynesia etc.

Thats good news on the new manufacturing plant. India will be churning out huge quantities soon too.

Yep.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/science/2021-02-12/cov...

Also quite a good description of how they make the stuff

[JQ]

NRS said:

They have some ordered from Europe. I think it wasn't due to start until March proper. From what I have heard from my girlfriend there is a lot of people who are "anti-vacc" for corona, as they are basically open as usual apart from the tourist lot. So for many they see no change in their life from corona, which seems to have resulted in no desire to take a vaccine given the lack of consequences for not doing so. Of course there is some desperate for it to be able to travel, who have their business dependent on tourism, but they seem to be pretty limited in numbers.

That seems a rather short term view, how does that play out in the long term? They've got rid of it by literally shutting their doors and keeping them firmly locked. As soon as they open up it'll run rampant again.

[scjgreen]

NRS said:

There is super strict rules getting into the country, so they basically have no corona internally, which means stuff can be open like normal for the most part.

Edited by NRS on Tuesday 23 February 11:11

If only we lived on an Island like them and could have done the same.... oh wait

[vaud]

scjgreen said:

If only we lived on an Island like them and could have done the same.... oh wait

We could never have mimicked Australia as our trade is highly reliant and dependent on a high flow of traffic to Europe.

We were also a key hub for travel. Australia, less so.

[amusingduck]

rover 623gsi said:

Interesting that the only country in Europe that is close the UK’s vaccine rate is Serbia, which is not in the EU. Not sure what it’s like as a holiday destination though

https://covidvax.live/

The narrative goes that the smaller/poorer European countries would suffer without the EU's collective vaccination scheme.

Serbia, with the second lowest real GDP per capita (according to the EU - using 2018 as 2019 incomplete), are blowing that narrative to shreds.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/sdg...

[MiniMan64]

jsf said:

vaud said:

I think places like Greece will reopen first. Less sure about France, Spain, etc

Spain will introduce a travel corridor with UK to the major resort airports, no doubt about that.

The issue will be return quarantine. Probably means proof of vaccine for no quarantine on return.

Yes I'd imagine they will not want another summer without the tourist coin. The political picture could be quite staggering come June though, most of the UK vaccinated and fully open again but with the majority of the EU still in trouble enduring more rounds of lockdown...

We've got a (delayed from last year) villa in Spain booked in July/August. We'd sort of given up on it for this year and while the news is looking better at our end (most of our family is already vaccinated) I'll be interested to see how it plays out in our destination.

[NRS]

JQ said:

That seems a rather short term view, how does that play out in the long term? They've got rid of it by literally shutting their doors and keeping them firmly locked. As soon as they open up it'll run rampant again.

Yeap, and many don't care about the country being shut-off, as it has no effect on their life personally.

Just seen a absolute disgraceful situation here yesterday - apparently the health service here has made a rule which says the possible extra 7th dose by using the needles that are not so wasteful is "off label" and needs to be signed off by a doctor, of which they take responsibility for consequences of that use. So they're now going to be throwing the extra dose away. WTF is wrong with these idiots?!?

[amusingduck]

https://www.politico.eu/article/the-key-difference...

Really interesting reading. Looks like we played an absolute blinder with AZ.

[anonymous-user]

amusingduck said:

https://www.politico.eu/article/the-key-difference...

Really interesting reading. Looks like we played an absolute blinder with AZ.

The UK isnt the major economy it is and the base of many international legal contracts by chance. It's an illustration of why UK and EU law was at logerheads often, the basic concept is different.

[Wombat3]

amusingduck said:

rover 623gsi said:

Interesting that the only country in Europe that is close the UK’s vaccine rate is Serbia, which is not in the EU. Not sure what it’s like as a holiday destination though

https://covidvax.live/

The narrative goes that the smaller/poorer European countries would suffer without the EU's collective vaccination scheme.

Serbia, with the second lowest real GDP per capita (according to the EU - using 2018 as 2019 incomplete), are blowing that narrative to shreds.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/sdg...

That narrative was always utter bks though, it was simply a question of placing an order for what was a relatively small sum of money (in comparison to the GDP of even small nations). That is all any country needed to do to get in the queue, place an order. Obviously standing up storage and distribution facilities is then their own internal problem (but it is now anyway AFAIK)

The sums of money involved in buying vaccines are pretty much irrelevant especially with the AZ stuff. Even so, as Netenyahu said, the Israelis just paid Pfizer whatever they asked because they understood the benefits of getting the thing under control would far outweigh whatever the costs were.

If you asked him if he regrets havig paid Pfizer 5 or 6 times what he would have had to pay AZ but then wait for supply I don't think think he would say yes!

[DeltonaS]

Wombat3 said:

amusingduck said:

rover 623gsi said:

Interesting that the only country in Europe that is close the UK’s vaccine rate is Serbia, which is not in the EU. Not sure what it’s like as a holiday destination though

https://covidvax.live/

The narrative goes that the smaller/poorer European countries would suffer without the EU's collective vaccination scheme.

Serbia, with the second lowest real GDP per capita (according to the EU - using 2018 as 2019 incomplete), are blowing that narrative to shreds.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/sdg...

That narrative was always utter bks though, it was simply a question of placing an order for what was a relatively small sum of money (in comparison to the GDP of even small nations). That is all any country needed to do to get in the queue, place an order. Obviously standing up storage and distribution facilities is then their own internal problem (but it is now anyway AFAIK)

The sums of money involved in buying vaccines are pretty much irrelevant especially with the AZ stuff. Even so, as Netenyahu said, the Israelis just paid Pfizer whatever they asked because they understood the benefits of getting the thing under control would far outweigh whatever the costs were.

If you asked him if he regrets havig paid Pfizer 5 or 6 times what he would have had to pay AZ but then wait for supply I don't think think he would say yes!

A yes the narrative, which narrative though, that's of course the question.

shame the PH narrative doens't mention that Serbia bought Chinese and Russian vaccins. Something the rest of western world did not.

Another narrative; we're less than 2 months away of the moment when last spring the virus more or less went away due to the weather conditions (seasonality). It returned somewhere in the 2nd week of september.

So the rel. lead that the UK or Serbia has are less valuable than some suggest.

The EU needs to vacinate the mojority of the population by the end of august.

[CraigyMc]

DeltonaS said:

shame the PH narrative doens't mention that Serbia bought Chinese and Russian vaccins. Something the rest of western world did not.

Hungary bought Sputnik. https://tass.com/economy/1247871

[RichFN2]

rover 623gsi said:

Interesting that the only country in Europe that is close the UK’s vaccine rate is Serbia, which is not in the EU. Not sure what it’s like as a holiday destination though

https://covidvax.live/

Edited by rover 623gsi on Tuesday 23 February 10:46

Belgrade is supposed to be a lovely and extremely lively summer destination if a little rough round the edges, will appeal to those who like the cheaper city breaks within Eastern Europe/SE Europe. Novi Sad is also set to be the European Capital of Culture this year

What has also helped Serbia is using the Russian Sputnik V vaccine, Hungary also did the same due to the slow EU response and are also the first EU country to approve the Chinese Sinopharm vaccine so that could be another country on the list

[i4got]

DeltonaS said:

A yes the narrative, which narrative though, that's of course the question.

shame the PH narrative doens't mention that Serbia bought Chinese and Russian vaccins. Something the rest of western world did not.

Another narrative; we're less than 2 months away of the moment when last spring the virus more or less went away due to the weather conditions (seasonality). It returned somewhere in the 2nd week of september.

So the rel. lead that the UK or Serbia has are less valuable than some suggest.

The EU needs to vacinate the mojority of the population by the end of august.

Ah so the delay is intentional and planned. Is that the new narrative?