The EU v UK vaccine tussle

[Wombat3]

DeltonaS said:

Wombat3 said:

amusingduck said:

rover 623gsi said:

Interesting that the only country in Europe that is close the UK’s vaccine rate is Serbia, which is not in the EU. Not sure what it’s like as a holiday destination though

https://covidvax.live/

The narrative goes that the smaller/poorer European countries would suffer without the EU's collective vaccination scheme.

Serbia, with the second lowest real GDP per capita (according to the EU - using 2018 as 2019 incomplete), are blowing that narrative to shreds.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/sdg...

That narrative was always utter bks though, it was simply a question of placing an order for what was a relatively small sum of money (in comparison to the GDP of even small nations). That is all any country needed to do to get in the queue, place an order. Obviously standing up storage and distribution facilities is then their own internal problem (but it is now anyway AFAIK)

The sums of money involved in buying vaccines are pretty much irrelevant especially with the AZ stuff. Even so, as Netenyahu said, the Israelis just paid Pfizer whatever they asked because they understood the benefits of getting the thing under control would far outweigh whatever the costs were.

If you asked him if he regrets havig paid Pfizer 5 or 6 times what he would have had to pay AZ but then wait for supply I don't think think he would say yes!

A yes the narrative, which narrative though, that's of course the question.

shame the PH narrative doens't mention that Serbia bought Chinese and Russian vaccins. Something the rest of western world did not.

Another narrative; we're less than 2 months away of the moment when last spring the virus more or less went away due to the weather conditions (seasonality). It returned somewhere in the 2nd week of september.

So the rel. lead that the UK or Serbia has are less valuable than some suggest.

The EU needs to vacinate the mojority of the population by the end of august.

The simple narrative that the whole EU should move together to "protect smaller nations", it was bks. The Russian Vaccine has been peer reviewed to be extremely effective. Not a lot wrong with it. I should think even the Chinese one will work to a good extent. The Russians are currently working with Oxford U to explore the idea of hybrid dosing i.e. one Sputnik & one AZ.

The other narrative is look at the graph shown yesterday about cases increasing in your part of the world. It would be no surprise is it gets very messy in the next 3 weeks. Plenty of data has been pointing at this possibility for quite a while.

Seasonality is also bks & clutching at straws. It was suppressed last year because of lock downs. Besides that the variant in play last year was far less infectious than the new one. There has also been plenty of it going on in nice warm places like Brazil in recent months.

Then you have the final utterly criminal narrative set up by the likes of Macron and other EU zealots with regard to the efficacy of vaccines either altogether or in some age groups. All now totally debunked & shown to be bks, but damage done.

The real lead the UK and Serbia have is many, many months now and growing by the day. The US is also not that far behind. The EU does need to vaccinate most of the population by end of August but based on current activity and take-up rates, there isn't a hope in hell of it happening. I'd be surprised if they can get even one dose done by Christmas.

[Wombat3]

i4got said:

DeltonaS said:

A yes the narrative, which narrative though, that's of course the question.

shame the PH narrative doens't mention that Serbia bought Chinese and Russian vaccins. Something the rest of western world did not.

Another narrative; we're less than 2 months away of the moment when last spring the virus more or less went away due to the weather conditions (seasonality). It returned somewhere in the 2nd week of september.

So the rel. lead that the UK or Serbia has are less valuable than some suggest.

The EU needs to vacinate the mojority of the population by the end of august.

Ah so the delay is intentional and planned. Is that the new narrative?

I think he's saying "the weather will save us"

A tad optimistic I feel.

[FiF]

Wombat3 said:

DeltonaS said:

Wombat3 said:

amusingduck said:

rover 623gsi said:

Interesting that the only country in Europe that is close the UK’s vaccine rate is Serbia, which is not in the EU. Not sure what it’s like as a holiday destination though

https://covidvax.live/

The narrative goes that the smaller/poorer European countries would suffer without the EU's collective vaccination scheme.

Serbia, with the second lowest real GDP per capita (according to the EU - using 2018 as 2019 incomplete), are blowing that narrative to shreds.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/sdg...

That narrative was always utter bks though, it was simply a question of placing an order for what was a relatively small sum of money (in comparison to the GDP of even small nations). That is all any country needed to do to get in the queue, place an order. Obviously standing up storage and distribution facilities is then their own internal problem (but it is now anyway AFAIK)

The sums of money involved in buying vaccines are pretty much irrelevant especially with the AZ stuff. Even so, as Netenyahu said, the Israelis just paid Pfizer whatever they asked because they understood the benefits of getting the thing under control would far outweigh whatever the costs were.

If you asked him if he regrets havig paid Pfizer 5 or 6 times what he would have had to pay AZ but then wait for supply I don't think think he would say yes!

A yes the narrative, which narrative though, that's of course the question.

shame the PH narrative doens't mention that Serbia bought Chinese and Russian vaccins. Something the rest of western world did not.

Another narrative; we're less than 2 months away of the moment when last spring the virus more or less went away due to the weather conditions (seasonality). It returned somewhere in the 2nd week of september.

So the rel. lead that the UK or Serbia has are less valuable than some suggest.

The EU needs to vacinate the mojority of the population by the end of august.

The simple narrative that the whole EU should move together to "protect smaller nations", it was bks. The Russian Vaccine has been peer reviewed to be extremely effective. Not a lot wrong with it. I should think even the Chinese one will work to a good extent. The Russians are currently working with Oxford U to explore the idea of hybrid dosing i.e. one Sputnik & one AZ.

The other narrative is look at the graph shown yesterday about cases increasing in your part of the world. It would be no surprise is it gets very messy in the next 3 weeks. Plenty of data has been pointing at this possibility for quite a while.

Seasonality is also bks & clutching at straws. It was suppressed last year because of lock downs. Besides that the variant in play last year was far less infectious than the new one. There has also been plenty of it going on in nice warm places like Brazil in recent months.

Then you have the final utterly criminal narrative set up by the likes of Macron and other EU zealots with regard to the efficacy of vaccines either altogether or in some age groups. All now totally debunked & shown to be bks, but damage done.

The real lead the UK and Serbia have is many, many months now and growing by the day. The US is also not that far behind. The EU does need to vaccinate most of the population by end of August but based on current activity and take-up rates, there isn't a hope in hell of it happening. I'd be surprised if they can get even one dose done by Christmas.

If it wasn't so tragic for the citizens affected by this shambles that is largely of the EU's own making the narratives and blatant attempt at excuses proposed by Deltona would be hilarious. Pointless to even call a courier to take what remains ;hehe: of his credibility away as there is absolutely none left. So sad.

[anonymous-user]

FiF said:

Wombat3 said:

DeltonaS said:

Wombat3 said:

amusingduck said:

rover 623gsi said:

Interesting that the only country in Europe that is close the UK’s vaccine rate is Serbia, which is not in the EU. Not sure what it’s like as a holiday destination though

https://covidvax.live/

The narrative goes that the smaller/poorer European countries would suffer without the EU's collective vaccination scheme.

Serbia, with the second lowest real GDP per capita (according to the EU - using 2018 as 2019 incomplete), are blowing that narrative to shreds.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/sdg...

That narrative was always utter bks though, it was simply a question of placing an order for what was a relatively small sum of money (in comparison to the GDP of even small nations). That is all any country needed to do to get in the queue, place an order. Obviously standing up storage and distribution facilities is then their own internal problem (but it is now anyway AFAIK)

The sums of money involved in buying vaccines are pretty much irrelevant especially with the AZ stuff. Even so, as Netenyahu said, the Israelis just paid Pfizer whatever they asked because they understood the benefits of getting the thing under control would far outweigh whatever the costs were.

If you asked him if he regrets havig paid Pfizer 5 or 6 times what he would have had to pay AZ but then wait for supply I don't think think he would say yes!

A yes the narrative, which narrative though, that's of course the question.

shame the PH narrative doens't mention that Serbia bought Chinese and Russian vaccins. Something the rest of western world did not.

Another narrative; we're less than 2 months away of the moment when last spring the virus more or less went away due to the weather conditions (seasonality). It returned somewhere in the 2nd week of september.

So the rel. lead that the UK or Serbia has are less valuable than some suggest.

The EU needs to vacinate the mojority of the population by the end of august.

The simple narrative that the whole EU should move together to "protect smaller nations", it was bks. The Russian Vaccine has been peer reviewed to be extremely effective. Not a lot wrong with it. I should think even the Chinese one will work to a good extent. The Russians are currently working with Oxford U to explore the idea of hybrid dosing i.e. one Sputnik & one AZ.

The other narrative is look at the graph shown yesterday about cases increasing in your part of the world. It would be no surprise is it gets very messy in the next 3 weeks. Plenty of data has been pointing at this possibility for quite a while.

Seasonality is also bks & clutching at straws. It was suppressed last year because of lock downs. Besides that the variant in play last year was far less infectious than the new one. There has also been plenty of it going on in nice warm places like Brazil in recent months.

Then you have the final utterly criminal narrative set up by the likes of Macron and other EU zealots with regard to the efficacy of vaccines either altogether or in some age groups. All now totally debunked & shown to be bks, but damage done.

The real lead the UK and Serbia have is many, many months now and growing by the day. The US is also not that far behind. The EU does need to vaccinate most of the population by end of August but based on current activity and take-up rates, there isn't a hope in hell of it happening. I'd be surprised if they can get even one dose done by Christmas.

If it wasn't so tragic for the citizens affected by this shambles that is largely of the EU's own making the narratives and blatant attempt at excuses proposed by Deltona would be hilarious. Pointless to even call a courier to take what remains ;hehe: of his credibility away as there is absolutely none left. So sad.

[FiF]

ruprechtmonkeyboy said:

FiF said:

Wombat3 said:

DeltonaS said:

Wombat3 said:

amusingduck said:

rover 623gsi said:

Interesting that the only country in Europe that is close the UK’s vaccine rate is Serbia, which is not in the EU. Not sure what it’s like as a holiday destination though

https://covidvax.live/

The narrative goes that the smaller/poorer European countries would suffer without the EU's collective vaccination scheme.

Serbia, with the second lowest real GDP per capita (according to the EU - using 2018 as 2019 incomplete), are blowing that narrative to shreds.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/sdg...

That narrative was always utter bks though, it was simply a question of placing an order for what was a relatively small sum of money (in comparison to the GDP of even small nations). That is all any country needed to do to get in the queue, place an order. Obviously standing up storage and distribution facilities is then their own internal problem (but it is now anyway AFAIK)

The sums of money involved in buying vaccines are pretty much irrelevant especially with the AZ stuff. Even so, as Netenyahu said, the Israelis just paid Pfizer whatever they asked because they understood the benefits of getting the thing under control would far outweigh whatever the costs were.

If you asked him if he regrets havig paid Pfizer 5 or 6 times what he would have had to pay AZ but then wait for supply I don't think think he would say yes!

A yes the narrative, which narrative though, that's of course the question.

shame the PH narrative doens't mention that Serbia bought Chinese and Russian vaccins. Something the rest of western world did not.

Another narrative; we're less than 2 months away of the moment when last spring the virus more or less went away due to the weather conditions (seasonality). It returned somewhere in the 2nd week of september.

So the rel. lead that the UK or Serbia has are less valuable than some suggest.

The EU needs to vacinate the mojority of the population by the end of august.

The simple narrative that the whole EU should move together to "protect smaller nations", it was bks. The Russian Vaccine has been peer reviewed to be extremely effective. Not a lot wrong with it. I should think even the Chinese one will work to a good extent. The Russians are currently working with Oxford U to explore the idea of hybrid dosing i.e. one Sputnik & one AZ.

The other narrative is look at the graph shown yesterday about cases increasing in your part of the world. It would be no surprise is it gets very messy in the next 3 weeks. Plenty of data has been pointing at this possibility for quite a while.

Seasonality is also bks & clutching at straws. It was suppressed last year because of lock downs. Besides that the variant in play last year was far less infectious than the new one. There has also been plenty of it going on in nice warm places like Brazil in recent months.

Then you have the final utterly criminal narrative set up by the likes of Macron and other EU zealots with regard to the efficacy of vaccines either altogether or in some age groups. All now totally debunked & shown to be bks, but damage done.

The real lead the UK and Serbia have is many, many months now and growing by the day. The US is also not that far behind. The EU does need to vaccinate most of the population by end of August but based on current activity and take-up rates, there isn't a hope in hell of it happening. I'd be surprised if they can get even one dose done by Christmas.

If it wasn't so tragic for the citizens affected by this shambles that is largely of the EU's own making the narratives and blatant attempt at excuses proposed by Deltona would be hilarious. Pointless to even call a courier to take what remains ;hehe: of his credibility away as there is absolutely none left. So sad.

Once again you really show your benefit to this place, ie zero. Just go forth troll.

[768]

DeltonaS said:

Another narrative; we're less than 2 months away of the moment when last spring the virus more or less went away due to the weather conditions (seasonality). It returned somewhere in the 2nd week of september.

So the rel. lead that the UK or Serbia has are less valuable than some suggest.

The EU needs to vacinate the mojority of the population by the end of august.

Have you seen the timings of the South Africa case spikes? Relying on the season is a terrible excuse.

[andy43]

768 said:

DeltonaS said:

Another narrative; we're less than 2 months away of the moment when last spring the virus more or less went away due to the weather conditions (seasonality). It returned somewhere in the 2nd week of september.

So the rel. lead that the UK or Serbia has are less valuable than some suggest.

The EU needs to vacinate the mojority of the population by the end of august.

Have you seen the timings of the South Africa case spikes? Relying on the season is a terrible excuse.

Completely this.
Just look at the SA numbers or the UK with the newer variant.
Assuming the virus won't mutate further until the sun comes out isn't a plan.

[NRS]

DeltonaS said:

The EU needs to vacinate the mojority of the population by the end of august.

If we assume all the rest of your post to be correct (which in itself is a huge question) then do you think we in the EU/EEA are on course to do that? So far in I think 3 months we're around 2% of people fully vaccinated here in Norway.

What is your opinion about the 90-95% rate of protection from hospitalisation from 1 jab, seen in the real world in Scotland btw. Does it change your mind on how the EU should be vaccinating people?

[Blib]

EU coronavirus vaccines strategy is a failure, says Hungary's Viktor Orbán

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/02/23/eu-cor...

Britain’s vaccination strategy has been far more successful than the European Union’s failed and slow response to the coronavirus pandemic, Hungary’s prime minister has said.

Viktor Orbán said Budapest would now go it alone rather than wait for the doses secured by the EU, which negotiated for supplies as a bloc.

[London424]

It’s starting to get messy over there

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/23/eu-t...

Quite a few countries have stopped declining and are stuck or increasing. France, Italy, Czech to name a few.

[Oilchange]

That's pretty damning.

[turbobloke]

Oilchange said:

That's pretty damning.

It sure is.

Germany Europe Minister said:

I reject the accusation that we have not complied with EU law … These measures obviously put a massive strain on border regions, commuters and the transport of goods and the single market, but the protection of our citizens is paramount.

However, if they want to posture by pushing the single market with free movement for spreaders, that's their choice. The vaccination mismanagement débacle adds significantly to their discomfiture.

[amgmcqueen]

DeltonaS said:

Wombat3 said:

amusingduck said:

rover 623gsi said:

Interesting that the only country in Europe that is close the UK’s vaccine rate is Serbia, which is not in the EU. Not sure what it’s like as a holiday destination though

https://covidvax.live/

The narrative goes that the smaller/poorer European countries would suffer without the EU's collective vaccination scheme.

Serbia, with the second lowest real GDP per capita (according to the EU - using 2018 as 2019 incomplete), are blowing that narrative to shreds.

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/databrowser/view/sdg...

That narrative was always utter bks though, it was simply a question of placing an order for what was a relatively small sum of money (in comparison to the GDP of even small nations). That is all any country needed to do to get in the queue, place an order. Obviously standing up storage and distribution facilities is then their own internal problem (but it is now anyway AFAIK)

The sums of money involved in buying vaccines are pretty much irrelevant especially with the AZ stuff. Even so, as Netenyahu said, the Israelis just paid Pfizer whatever they asked because they understood the benefits of getting the thing under control would far outweigh whatever the costs were.

If you asked him if he regrets havig paid Pfizer 5 or 6 times what he would have had to pay AZ but then wait for supply I don't think think he would say yes!

A yes the narrative, which narrative though, that's of course the question.

shame the PH narrative doens't mention that Serbia bought Chinese and Russian vaccins. Something the rest of western world did not.

Another narrative; we're less than 2 months away of the moment when last spring the virus more or less went away due to the weather conditions (seasonality). It returned somewhere in the 2nd week of september.

So the rel. lead that the UK or Serbia has are less valuable than some suggest.

The EU needs to vacinate the mojority of the population by the end of august.

Beyond delusional....!

[Ian Geary]

London424 said:

It’s starting to get messy over there

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/23/eu-t...

Quite a few countries have stopped declining and are stuck or increasing. France, Italy, Czech to name a few.

The EU has given them 10 days to respond! I wonder what that response will be? What's German for Foxtrot Oscar?

[vaud]

Ian Geary said:

The EU has given them 10 days to respond! I wonder what that response will be? What's German for Foxtrot Oscar?

Verpiss dich!

[CraigyMc]

vaud said:

Ian Geary said:

The EU has given them 10 days to respond! I wonder what that response will be? What's German for Foxtrot Oscar?

Verpiss dich!

"Dexit"

[paulrockliffe]

Apparently the AZ delivery to the EU in the second quarter will only be 50% of the expected amount. Prediction is 130m of the 300m doses anticipated in Q1 and Q2

Fireworks or still too embarrassed after last time?

[anonymous-user]

paulrockliffe said:

Apparently the AZ delivery to the EU in the second quarter will only be 50% of the expected amount. Prediction is 130m of the 300m doses anticipated in Q1 and Q2

Fireworks or still too embarrassed after last time?

There is fk all they can do about it. This is not like making soup.

[nikaiyo2]

Lol the EU strategy is perfect, you know your st is sorted when the Maldives are vaccinating at 3 times the rate of France and Germany. I suppose distribution in France or Germany must be a nightmare.

[crankedup]

London424 said:

It’s starting to get messy over there

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/23/eu-t...

Quite a few countries have stopped declining and are stuck or increasing. France, Italy, Czech to name a few.

Each Country has a prime responsibility for the health and well being of its population. Looks like the EC is overstepping itself again. Will they ever learn, seems not which gives me cheer that we left. I do feel sympathy for those people stuck with the nutters in charge.Instructions to open borders whilst a Global pandemic is prevalent and vaccine rollout is abysmal, unreal.

Edited by crankedup on Tuesday 23 February 19:49