The EU v UK vaccine tussle
Discussion
CaptainSlow said:
pquinn said:
Mr_J said:
Did I read that the EU are proposing limiting the export of vaccine made in the EU to "protect" their citizens but at the same time are demanding that AZ must export vaccine made in the UK to the EU?
Do as I say but not as I do.
Yes - the hypocrisy is stunning. Do as I say but not as I do.
Electro1980 said:
The EU really are looking like a bunch of selfish t
ts with this. Demanding that AZ breach another contract to meet theirs. Not only that but breach the U.K. contract which is working fine because the U.K. pored a lot of money in to the production way before the vaccine was ready to make sure everything would work a d the EU didn’t.
Which, however, has no impact on the UKs supply. That is down to the government signing contracts early. The EUs behaviour is disgusting when Oxford and AZ are trying to ensure equitable world wide distribution, with zero profit on the current production, and the EU are threatening all of this.
The other point worth mentioning is that the Oxford/AZ vaccine is being done at cost for anyone who wants it.ts with this. Demanding that AZ breach another contract to meet theirs. Not only that but breach the U.K. contract which is working fine because the U.K. pored a lot of money in to the production way before the vaccine was ready to make sure everything would work a d the EU didn’t.anonymous said:
[redacted]
We did develop the vaccine. Oxford University developed it. AZ licensed it and took it to mass production. AZ helped by agreeing to the licensing before it was ready, with stipulations about selling at cost and getting production facilities ready with no guarantee of a vaccine, but Oxford did the development.Which, however, has no impact on the UKs supply. That is down to the government signing contracts early. The EUs behaviour is disgusting when Oxford and AZ are trying to ensure equitable world wide distribution, with zero profit on the current production, and the EU are threatening all of this.
Is the Pfizer Biontec one making a profit, or is it just much more expensive to make?
NerveAgent said:
I bet AstraZeneca are regretting doing this at cost price!
I bet they are regretting dealing with the EU at all. Talk about a smear program against their business, i'd sue the fkers for potential damage to their reputation.If the EU do end up placing export restrictions, that will change the landscape of pharma significantly.
Looks like the UK govt foresaw the chance of a spat with our "friends" in Europe last May.
"Interesting example of UK's new emphasis on ‘national self-sufficiency’ in medical supplies. I understand the Oxford vaccine was going to be developed by Merck, a German company, until HMG stepped in and said it must be done with a UK headquartered company, hence AstraZeneca deal"
https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1259874775784...
"Interesting example of UK's new emphasis on ‘national self-sufficiency’ in medical supplies. I understand the Oxford vaccine was going to be developed by Merck, a German company, until HMG stepped in and said it must be done with a UK headquartered company, hence AstraZeneca deal"
https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1259874775784...
CaptainSlow said:
Yeah, the UK needs to replicate Ireland's state support of pharma companies to encourage more manufacturing sites.
The U.K. is building a state vaccine plant which is flexible enough to make lots of different types.The plant was proposed in 2018 and was due to open next year, but they have thrown money at it to get it finished later this year.
After reading that Italian news paper I have the opinion that the EU commission are absolute s.
This is playground bully tactics in full swing. When the vaccines were being developed the EUC said that no one should get priority the share must be equal. How the fk do they see 17% of the vaccine going to 5% of the population as being equal.
They have absofkinglutely screwed them selves on this. AstraZenica are producing this at cost. For the EUC to then try and slander the name of AZ to cover their fk up is appalling. At what point do AZ say, enough of this and refuse to sell it to them.
There must be legal issues in the blatant falsifying of information and potential damage to Oxford and AZ.
s. This is playground bully tactics in full swing. When the vaccines were being developed the EUC said that no one should get priority the share must be equal. How the f
k do they see 17% of the vaccine going to 5% of the population as being equal. They have absof
kinglutely screwed them selves on this. AstraZenica are producing this at cost. For the EUC to then try and slander the name of AZ to cover their fk up is appalling. At what point do AZ say, enough of this and refuse to sell it to them. There must be legal issues in the blatant falsifying of information and potential damage to Oxford and AZ.
irc said:
Looks like the UK govt foresaw the chance of a spat with our "friends" in Europe last May.
"Interesting example of UK's new emphasis on ‘national self-sufficiency’ in medical supplies. I understand the Oxford vaccine was going to be developed by Merck, a German company, until HMG stepped in and said it must be done with a UK headquartered company, hence AstraZeneca deal"
https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1259874775784...
Well that disappeared fast. "Interesting example of UK's new emphasis on ‘national self-sufficiency’ in medical supplies. I understand the Oxford vaccine was going to be developed by Merck, a German company, until HMG stepped in and said it must be done with a UK headquartered company, hence AstraZeneca deal"
https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1259874775784...
The UK government hasn’t got a lot right during the pandemic, but I do believe whoever was in charge of overseeing our vaccine programme clearly took the bull by the horns.
The fact that the EU is squabbling over a vaccine it hasn’t even approved yet just speaks volumes. If they were so desperate to start getting the citizens of the bloc vaccinated, then why did it take so many weeks longer than us to approve the Pfizer vaccine? And, why haven’t they approved the AZ vaccine yet - we approved AZ almost a month ago now. We’ve vaccinated almost 7.2 million people in the UK, that’s more than the entire population of Malta, Luxembourg, Cyprus, Estonia and Latvia combined. It’s almost enough to also all add Slovenia to that list too.
My take on it is that the EU is slightly peeved that the UK is showing them up, especially so soon after Brexit. They’re making a huge song and dance to hide their own incompetence and lack of foresight surrounding the eventual vaccine procurement and rollout. While I don’t want to get into a Brexit related thing here, I do feel the EU mission for us to be seen to fail outside the bloc, has clearly backfired.
The fact that the EU is squabbling over a vaccine it hasn’t even approved yet just speaks volumes. If they were so desperate to start getting the citizens of the bloc vaccinated, then why did it take so many weeks longer than us to approve the Pfizer vaccine? And, why haven’t they approved the AZ vaccine yet - we approved AZ almost a month ago now. We’ve vaccinated almost 7.2 million people in the UK, that’s more than the entire population of Malta, Luxembourg, Cyprus, Estonia and Latvia combined. It’s almost enough to also all add Slovenia to that list too.
My take on it is that the EU is slightly peeved that the UK is showing them up, especially so soon after Brexit. They’re making a huge song and dance to hide their own incompetence and lack of foresight surrounding the eventual vaccine procurement and rollout. While I don’t want to get into a Brexit related thing here, I do feel the EU mission for us to be seen to fail outside the bloc, has clearly backfired.
Just an accuracy point on AZ:
As I understand it they do sometimes supply the Oxford vaccine at cost but only to low and middle income countries. Higher income countries, presumably including the EU, pay full price.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/23/oxford-astrazeneca-results-covid-vaccine-developing-countries
As I understand it they do sometimes supply the Oxford vaccine at cost but only to low and middle income countries. Higher income countries, presumably including the EU, pay full price.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/23/oxford-astrazeneca-results-covid-vaccine-developing-countries
It gets better and better, despite not having approved the drug yet they are complaining that Astra exported vaccine produced in the EU to other countries that had and are now suggesting that the Astra now have to give it back. Do these vaccines not have a use by date.
I think we are now watching the death of foreign pharma in the EU. No company is going to risk having their product threatened in this way. As others have said it is just a very nasty way of trying to cover their own incompetence.
I think we are now watching the death of foreign pharma in the EU. No company is going to risk having their product threatened in this way. As others have said it is just a very nasty way of trying to cover their own incompetence.
spanky3 said:
Just an accuracy point on AZ:
As I understand it they do sometimes supply the Oxford vaccine at cost but only to low and middle income countries. Higher income countries, presumably including the EU, pay full price.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/23/oxford-astrazeneca-results-covid-vaccine-developing-countries
Not quite - it is cost price to everyone through the pandemic period and to low and middle income countries in perpetuity.As I understand it they do sometimes supply the Oxford vaccine at cost but only to low and middle income countries. Higher income countries, presumably including the EU, pay full price.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/23/oxford-astrazeneca-results-covid-vaccine-developing-countries
spanky3 said:
Just an accuracy point on AZ:
As I understand it they do sometimes supply the Oxford vaccine at cost but only to low and middle income countries. Higher income countries, presumably including the EU, pay full price.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/23/oxford-astrazeneca-results-covid-vaccine-developing-countries
The UK contract is on a cost plus basis. The FT says this is up to 20%: https://www.ft.com/content/e359159b-105c-407e-b1be...As I understand it they do sometimes supply the Oxford vaccine at cost but only to low and middle income countries. Higher income countries, presumably including the EU, pay full price.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/23/oxford-astrazeneca-results-covid-vaccine-developing-countries
loafer123 said:
Electro1980 said:
The EU really are looking like a bunch of selfish tts with this. Demanding that AZ breach another contract to meet theirs. Not only that but breach the U.K. contract which is working fine because the U.K. pored a lot of money in to the production way before the vaccine was ready to make sure everything would work a d the EU didn’t.
Which, however, has no impact on the UKs supply. That is down to the government signing contracts early. The EUs behaviour is disgusting when Oxford and AZ are trying to ensure equitable world wide distribution, with zero profit on the current production, and the EU are threatening all of this.
The other point worth mentioning is that the Oxford/AZ vaccine is being done at cost for anyone who wants it.ts with this. Demanding that AZ breach another contract to meet theirs. Not only that but breach the U.K. contract which is working fine because the U.K. pored a lot of money in to the production way before the vaccine was ready to make sure everything would work a d the EU didn’t.anonymous said:
[redacted]
We did develop the vaccine. Oxford University developed it. AZ licensed it and took it to mass production. AZ helped by agreeing to the licensing before it was ready, with stipulations about selling at cost and getting production facilities ready with no guarantee of a vaccine, but Oxford did the development.Which, however, has no impact on the UKs supply. That is down to the government signing contracts early. The EUs behaviour is disgusting when Oxford and AZ are trying to ensure equitable world wide distribution, with zero profit on the current production, and the EU are threatening all of this.
Is the Pfizer Biontec one making a profit, or is it just much more expensive to make?
spanky3 said:
Just an accuracy point on AZ:
As I understand it they do sometimes supply the Oxford vaccine at cost but only to low and middle income countries. Higher income countries, presumably including the EU, pay full price.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/23/oxford-astrazeneca-results-covid-vaccine-developing-countries
My understanding is that Oxford and AZ are making no profit on it for the first 12 months anywhere at all and in perpetuity in less developed countries.As I understand it they do sometimes supply the Oxford vaccine at cost but only to low and middle income countries. Higher income countries, presumably including the EU, pay full price.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/23/oxford-astrazeneca-results-covid-vaccine-developing-countries
Electro1980 said:
spanky3 said:
Just an accuracy point on AZ:
As I understand it they do sometimes supply the Oxford vaccine at cost but only to low and middle income countries. Higher income countries, presumably including the EU, pay full price.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/23/oxford-astrazeneca-results-covid-vaccine-developing-countries
My university is that Oxford and AZ are making no profit on it for the first 12 months anywhere at all and in perpetuity in less developed countries.As I understand it they do sometimes supply the Oxford vaccine at cost but only to low and middle income countries. Higher income countries, presumably including the EU, pay full price.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/nov/23/oxford-astrazeneca-results-covid-vaccine-developing-countries
Ridgemont said:
irc said:
Looks like the UK govt foresaw the chance of a spat with our "friends" in Europe last May.
"Interesting example of UK's new emphasis on ‘national self-sufficiency’ in medical supplies. I understand the Oxford vaccine was going to be developed by Merck, a German company, until HMG stepped in and said it must be done with a UK headquartered company, hence AstraZeneca deal"
https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1259874775784...
Well that disappeared fast. "Interesting example of UK's new emphasis on ‘national self-sufficiency’ in medical supplies. I understand the Oxford vaccine was going to be developed by Merck, a German company, until HMG stepped in and said it must be done with a UK headquartered company, hence AstraZeneca deal"
https://twitter.com/JGForsyth/status/1259874775784...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/oxford-developed-covi...
frisbee said:
It isn't as simple as first come first served.
If this company has made a contractual agreement with the EU, or anyone, promising to supply a certain number of doses then it is contractually obliged to deliver them.
Ultimately where the factories are physically located will be the deciding factor.
They will have also made agreements with other countries to supply X amount so the burden of delivering the contracts extends to more that just the EU contract.If this company has made a contractual agreement with the EU, or anyone, promising to supply a certain number of doses then it is contractually obliged to deliver them.
Ultimately where the factories are physically located will be the deciding factor.
The location of the factories has no bearing on who gets the vaccines, the factories in the EU are no more the EU's than the factories in the UK are ours they belong to a business not a country or trading block, Astra Zeneca will decide who gets what and when.
If they have supply issues and no client is to blame then they should share what they have fairly across all contracts within the terms they have signed, no amount of stamping of feet and waving paper around will magic up vaccines that don't exist...
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