The EU v UK vaccine tussle
Discussion
Wills2 said:
frisbee said:
It isn't as simple as first come first served.
If this company has made a contractual agreement with the EU, or anyone, promising to supply a certain number of doses then it is contractually obliged to deliver them.
Ultimately where the factories are physically located will be the deciding factor.
They will have also made agreements with other countries to supply X amount so the burden of delivering the contracts extends to more that just the EU contract.If this company has made a contractual agreement with the EU, or anyone, promising to supply a certain number of doses then it is contractually obliged to deliver them.
Ultimately where the factories are physically located will be the deciding factor.
The location of the factories has no bearing on who gets the vaccines, the factories in the EU are no more the EU's than the factories in the UK are ours they belong to a business not a country or trading block, Astra Zeneca will decide who gets what and when.
If they have supply issues and no client is to blame then they should share what they have fairly across all contracts within the terms they have signed, no amount of stamping of feet and waving paper around will magic up vaccines that don't exist...
Speaking of AstraZeneca and lawsuits.
Link
In summary, a US pension fund has launched a suit against AZ claiming that they suffered losses when the company's share price dropped after investors were disappointed by initial announcements regarding vaccine efficacy.
Yanks, just feck off. t
ts. Not enough swearing for those pricks. 2/10
Link
In summary, a US pension fund has launched a suit against AZ claiming that they suffered losses when the company's share price dropped after investors were disappointed by initial announcements regarding vaccine efficacy.
article said:
A lawsuit filed on Tuesday in New York by Monroe County Employees’ Retirement System claimed investors lost money when the firm’s share price dropped 5pc in the three days after the results were released, Bloomberg reported.
Errr, your investment can go down as well as up. Isn't that how it works any more?Yanks, just feck off. t
ts. Not enough swearing for those pricks. 2/10
jimmythingy said:
Are India making any of these vacines? they have the best capabilities to produce in volume. Also they have a reputation for manufacturing generic drugs before patents end could this happen. I can't see any of the drug companies handing over the recipe even if it's a good cause.
Pretty certain AZ have a plant there doing exactly this.jimmythingy said:
Are India making any of these vacines? they have the best capabilities to produce in volume. Also they have a reputation for manufacturing generic drugs before patents end could this happen. I can't see any of the drug companies handing over the recipe even if it's a good cause.
Serum Institute of India making the AZ vaccine branded as Covishield. This is the largest vaccine manufacturer :Clarkson: ... in the wooooorld. /Clarksonhttps://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/indi...
It's really interesting if you read back to press releases from last year.
EU / AZ, August $396m downpayment, https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/az-nets...
US / AZ, May $1.2bn downpayment, https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/astrazeneca-sc...
UK / AZ, May, https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/after-signing-...
The UK pre-order press release states 30m doses by September and "“will be first to get access".
There will I assume be a master delivery schedule somewhere that determines who gets what and when the key documents being the volume committed to UK HMG and the volume committed to the EU.
IMHO the EU/EC are trying to bounce AZ into disclosing the contract terms between it and UK HMG or disclosing the EU contract terms in detail. I note they're not claiming that any US produced doses should be shipped to EU in preference to US.
You also have to consider that the rhetoric out of the EU at point of their order programme being announced highlighted that production location was a factor in contract awards particularly EU production. Moderna have partnered with a EU based producer to satisfy the EU order for example, AZ have a network of EU based partners. How this plays out will be interesting.
I would not be surprised if the initial development funding agreement struck between Oxford university and HMG is behind the "UK first" position.
EU / AZ, August $396m downpayment, https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/az-nets...
US / AZ, May $1.2bn downpayment, https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/astrazeneca-sc...
UK / AZ, May, https://www.fiercepharma.com/pharma/after-signing-...
The UK pre-order press release states 30m doses by September and "“will be first to get access".
There will I assume be a master delivery schedule somewhere that determines who gets what and when the key documents being the volume committed to UK HMG and the volume committed to the EU.
IMHO the EU/EC are trying to bounce AZ into disclosing the contract terms between it and UK HMG or disclosing the EU contract terms in detail. I note they're not claiming that any US produced doses should be shipped to EU in preference to US.
You also have to consider that the rhetoric out of the EU at point of their order programme being announced highlighted that production location was a factor in contract awards particularly EU production. Moderna have partnered with a EU based producer to satisfy the EU order for example, AZ have a network of EU based partners. How this plays out will be interesting.
I would not be surprised if the initial development funding agreement struck between Oxford university and HMG is behind the "UK first" position.
Wills2 said:
The location of the factories has no bearing on who gets the vaccines, the factories in the EU are no more the EU's than the factories in the UK are ours they belong to a business not a country or trading block, Astra Zeneca will decide who gets what and when.
Not entirely - during the initial scramble for PPE we saw the willingness of states to send customs agents onto aircraft aprons to prevent exports.With vaccines that would be a "win-win" for governments as it would also conceivably be wildly popular with the electorate.
Could get Pharmaceutical companies off a contractual hook to boot, as they could plead force majeure?
Vanden Saab said:
It gets better and better, despite not having approved the drug yet they are complaining that Astra exported vaccine produced in the EU to other countries that had and are now suggesting that the Astra now have to give it back. Do these vaccines not have a use by date.
I think we are now watching the death of foreign pharma in the EU. No company is going to risk having their product threatened in this way. As others have said it is just a very nasty way of trying to cover their own incompetence.
They could always set up in the UK ... I think we are now watching the death of foreign pharma in the EU. No company is going to risk having their product threatened in this way. As others have said it is just a very nasty way of trying to cover their own incompetence.
As someone else has already said, there would be a mountain of schadenfreude if the consequences of the EU's mishandling of vaccine procurement and rollout weren't so serious. The attempts at bullying etc. are the kinds of things Trump would have been rightly lambasted for but I bet the usual pro-EU news sources aren't quite so keen to report on this somehow! 
jimmythingy said:
Are India making any of these vacines? they have the best capabilities to produce in volume. Also they have a reputation for manufacturing generic drugs before patents end could this happen. I can't see any of the drug companies handing over the recipe even if it's a good cause.
India is making loads but stockpiling it until March for a blitz:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-...
Mental that a billion doses won't cover half your population!
Wills2 said:
frisbee said:
It isn't as simple as first come first served.
If this company has made a contractual agreement with the EU, or anyone, promising to supply a certain number of doses then it is contractually obliged to deliver them.
Ultimately where the factories are physically located will be the deciding factor.
They will have also made agreements with other countries to supply X amount so the burden of delivering the contracts extends to more that just the EU contract.If this company has made a contractual agreement with the EU, or anyone, promising to supply a certain number of doses then it is contractually obliged to deliver them.
Ultimately where the factories are physically located will be the deciding factor.
The location of the factories has no bearing on who gets the vaccines, the factories in the EU are no more the EU's than the factories in the UK are ours they belong to a business not a country or trading block, Astra Zeneca will decide who gets what and when.
If they have supply issues and no client is to blame then they should share what they have fairly across all contracts within the terms they have signed, no amount of stamping of feet and waving paper around will magic up vaccines that don't exist...
These contracts are incredibly complex and have all sorts of clauses and details on the full process of how it will be fulfilled.
Electro1980 said:
The factory location does have a bearing. The contracts are tied to supply chains and developing manufacturing facilities. Also the factory in the U.K. was developed and built with a lot of U.K. government funding and the factory doing the final fill has been specifically contracted by AZ to do the distribution to the U.K.
These contracts are incredibly complex and have all sorts of clauses and details on the full process of how it will be fulfilled.
They are so complicated that it took UK 3 months less time to agree, maybe its the 27 translations that slow the EU so much. These contracts are incredibly complex and have all sorts of clauses and details on the full process of how it will be fulfilled.
Octoposse said:
Wow, after thirteen months of ineptitude, finally something turned up to make Boris look almost competent.
They'll be toasting the EU in general, and Stella Kyriakides in particular, at Number 10 tonight.
that's some real butt hurt for Brussels ay.They'll be toasting the EU in general, and Stella Kyriakides in particular, at Number 10 tonight.
What a surprise, EU acting with the arrogance of any imperial power or authoritarian regime when the chips are down. I guess if Britain were still a member they'd be "leveraging" us for "their entitlement" far harder...
Brexit has never looked better.
It’s because the U.K. government were involved with the process of developing and producing the vaccine from very early on. The plant used for production was developed with heavy investment from the U.K. government and the bottling and distribution plant is mostly dedicated to NHS contracts anyway.
It seems that the EU have acted as an external customer and the U.K. as a partner in the process, hence the time difference.
It seems that the EU have acted as an external customer and the U.K. as a partner in the process, hence the time difference.
Why the EU commission decided to get involved rather than leave countries alone on this one beggars belief. Do they not have the self awareness to realise that if something needs to be done at speed, they should probably stay away from it?
So their next step is to get heavy handed with a company who are producing the world's most sought after product at the moment, and cannot produce it fast enough to satisfy demand. They really need to take a step back and consider the situation they are in.
Not to mention that AZ have agreed to produce the vaccine at no profit overall, so wealthier countries will pay more and less wealthy countries will get it at lower cost, and the EU screwed them down on price, effectively making poorer countries pay more
So their next step is to get heavy handed with a company who are producing the world's most sought after product at the moment, and cannot produce it fast enough to satisfy demand. They really need to take a step back and consider the situation they are in.
Not to mention that AZ have agreed to produce the vaccine at no profit overall, so wealthier countries will pay more and less wealthy countries will get it at lower cost, and the EU screwed them down on price, effectively making poorer countries pay more
Edited by Camoradi on Thursday 28th January 08:30
Regarding media opinion
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/27/eu-c...
Today's guardian scrupulously avoids any praise of the UK government's actions, or condemnation of the EU.
Yet they're incredibly quick to pass judgement on the array of things they don't like.
The daily mail definitely aren't sitting on the fence
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9194629/N...
But of course anyone reading the DM a racist, just having their strings pulled by the global overlords.
It's also strange how trade law and regulation have been used as a big stick to beat up Boris and the UK government, yet soon as eth EU find themselves on the wrong side of a contract it's all "oh, this is a moral issue"
Typical how it's always "different£ when it applies to them.
Ultimately I don't want any more deaths than necessary, but giving a vaccine to the EU is just taking it away from someone else.
And aren't Hungary licencing the Russian vaccine? Oops, more disunity inbound.
Though the EU have shown with Crimea that Russia can do what it wants: the EU tends to pick who it bullies carefully.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/27/eu-c...
Today's guardian scrupulously avoids any praise of the UK government's actions, or condemnation of the EU.
Yet they're incredibly quick to pass judgement on the array of things they don't like.
The daily mail definitely aren't sitting on the fence
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9194629/N...
But of course anyone reading the DM a racist, just having their strings pulled by the global overlords.
It's also strange how trade law and regulation have been used as a big stick to beat up Boris and the UK government, yet soon as eth EU find themselves on the wrong side of a contract it's all "oh, this is a moral issue"
Typical how it's always "different£ when it applies to them.
Ultimately I don't want any more deaths than necessary, but giving a vaccine to the EU is just taking it away from someone else.
And aren't Hungary licencing the Russian vaccine? Oops, more disunity inbound.
Though the EU have shown with Crimea that Russia can do what it wants: the EU tends to pick who it bullies carefully.
The most important thing to come out of this debacle is will this impact the UK's supplies at all, and what about the UK's plans in the immediate future, Gove doesn't seem to think so:
--
8:37am
Covid vaccines 'planned, paid for and scheduled' will stay in UK, says Gove
Pressed on whether the Government will allow vaccines to go to the EU, Mr Gove said: "No, the critical thing is we must make sure that the schedule that has been agreed and on which our vaccination programme has been based and planned goes ahead.
"It is the case that the supplies that have been planned, paid for and scheduled should continue, absolutely. There will be no interruption to that."
8:36am
EU-AstraZeneca row will not interrupt UK supplies, Gove insists
Senior Cabinet minister Michael Gove has said there "will be no interruption" to vaccine supplies from AstraZeneca after the EU demanded to receive doses from UK plants.
He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "First thing, we must make sure that we continue with the effective acceleration of our vaccination programme. That relies on the supply schedule that has been agreed to be honoured. That's the first and most important thing.
"But secondarily I'm sure we all want to do everything possible to make sure that as many people in countries which our are friends and neighbours are vaccinated and I think we best achieve that through dialogue and co-operation and friendship."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-...
--
8:37am
Covid vaccines 'planned, paid for and scheduled' will stay in UK, says Gove
Pressed on whether the Government will allow vaccines to go to the EU, Mr Gove said: "No, the critical thing is we must make sure that the schedule that has been agreed and on which our vaccination programme has been based and planned goes ahead.
"It is the case that the supplies that have been planned, paid for and scheduled should continue, absolutely. There will be no interruption to that."
8:36am
EU-AstraZeneca row will not interrupt UK supplies, Gove insists
Senior Cabinet minister Michael Gove has said there "will be no interruption" to vaccine supplies from AstraZeneca after the EU demanded to receive doses from UK plants.
He told BBC Radio 4's Today programme: "First thing, we must make sure that we continue with the effective acceleration of our vaccination programme. That relies on the supply schedule that has been agreed to be honoured. That's the first and most important thing.
"But secondarily I'm sure we all want to do everything possible to make sure that as many people in countries which our are friends and neighbours are vaccinated and I think we best achieve that through dialogue and co-operation and friendship."
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-...
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