CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 10)

[Carl_Manchester]

Alucidnation said:

Whichever way you see it, 9 out of 10 take up is pretty damn good IMO.

You are conflating benefit to self with being instructed how to live their life.

Since the pandemic started, my local sainburys has been full to the gills with the over 60's, at all times of day, going to the supermarket as a couple and with grandchildren. This local situation has been repeated all over the country.

[Taylor James]

The Spruce Goose said:

RSTurboPaul said:

The people that can't have the vaccine aren't going to disappear - whether they get it in one larger 'wave' or spread out through the year, they'll still be susceptible.

So if coming variants are going to be more dangerous, surely it's better to get it all out of the way now??

SAGE seem tro moving the message from slowing it down to total eradication. Lets be honest that is impossible with open borders so why do they say it. It is like saying to solve poverty everyone is a millionaire, realistically improbable.

It's a tactic to encourage vaccination.

[Smollet]

Carl_Manchester said:

You are conflating benefit to self with being instructed how to live their life.

Since the pandemic started, my local sainburys has been full to the gills with the over 60's, at all times of day, going to the supermarket as a couple and with grandchildren. This local situation has been repeated all over the country.

I completely forgot to put my mask on when I went to my local Waitrose on Wednesday. No one batted an eyelid. I only realised I hadn’t put it on when I went take it off on the way out.

[anonymous-user]

Child vaccination interview with a research fellow working on the Oxford/AZ trial, on sky.

Very few children suffer from covid but those that do, do have co-morbidities (no surprise), severe asthma the main one.

The interviewee also talked about vaccination being for vulnerable people, including vulnerable children, but not needed for everyone (that is a political decision).

Hmmm.

[RSTurboPaul]

Smollet said:

Carl_Manchester said:

You are conflating benefit to self with being instructed how to live their life.

Since the pandemic started, my local sainburys has been full to the gills with the over 60's, at all times of day, going to the supermarket as a couple and with grandchildren. This local situation has been repeated all over the country.

I completely forgot to put my mask on when I went to my local Waitrose on Wednesday. No one batted an eyelid. I only realised I hadn’t put it on when I went take it off on the way out.

All the supermarkets (bar the Co-op) round here have bouncers on the door to intimidate you into wearing one - even at 10 minutes to closing time when one is trying to just get in and get out with minimal hassle.

[ucb]

isaldiri said:

Disagree. The private sector isn't equipped to carry out major surgery where ICU capability is required. They are far better and more efficient at handling the vast majority of ordinary lower order treatments and diagnosis that the NHS has been delaying and refusing to pass on to the private sector while the latter remains empty by NHS own decision.

Edited by isaldiri on Saturday 13th February 11:21

Agreed, simple straightforward cases with minimal recovery issues in otherwise well patients are what the private sector does well. 80% of my NHS lists do not fit that category

[ant1973]

It works seem we need a 100 percent effective vaccine...

If we were to allow a very large wave of infection, that wave will find all the people who couldn’t have the vaccine for good reason, those people who had the vaccine but unfortunately didn’t give them the protection they need,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

So if we can't develop such a vaccine, is it lockdown forever? I would quite like a day in that?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/13/expe...
I wish someone would ask them the correct questions.

[Twinfan]

soofsayer said:

Child vaccination interview with a research fellow working on the Oxford/AZ trial, on sky.

Very few children suffer from covid but those that do, do have co-morbidities (no surprise), severe asthma the main one.

The interviewee also talked about vaccination being for vulnerable people, including vulnerable children, but not needed for everyone (that is a political decision).

Hmmm.

Exactly. I'm fuming that this is being done. Using children in clinical trials should only be done to examine the effect of risk-benefit on their health. What exactly is the expected benefit of the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine to a healthy child that warrants giving them an intervention with no long term safety data?

It's wrong. Very, very wrong.

I note that AZ isn't involved in this and it's an investigator led trial. I'm surprised it's got through ethics approval. I'd like to see the protocol as surely only seriously vulnerable children should take part.

[anonymous-user]

Twinfan said:

soofsayer said:

Child vaccination interview with a research fellow working on the Oxford/AZ trial, on sky.

Very few children suffer from covid but those that do, do have co-morbidities (no surprise), severe asthma the main one.

The interviewee also talked about vaccination being for vulnerable people, including vulnerable children, but not needed for everyone (that is a political decision).

Hmmm.

Exactly. I'm fuming that this is being done. Using children in clinical trials should only be done to examine the effect of risk-benefit on their health. What exactly is the expected benefit of the SARS-CoV-2 vaccine to a healthy child that warrants giving them an intervention with no long term safety data?

It's wrong. Very, very wrong.

I note that AZ isn't involved in this and it's an investigator led trial. I'm surprised it's got through ethics approval. I'd like to see the protocol as surely only seriously vulnerable children should take part.

Informed consent by parent/guardian - something is very off here

[Funny username]

RSTurboPaul said:

BBC story on why childbearing age women, who are unlikely to suffer ill health from Covid, should get vaccinated

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56012529

BBC said:

Even something as simple as an over-the-counter painkiller carries a tiny risk of ulcers and internal bleeding. But the risk for most people is so small when used correctly, that it is outweighed by the benefits of treating relatively mild pain.

And the benefits of preventing an illness that we know can be life-threatening have been judged to be much greater than any theoretical risk of vaccination.

My wife is currently pregnant in 2nd trimester and was covid positive last week. Was a walk in the park, just the mild inconvenience of not being able to go to the shop was annoying. Oh, and a loss of taste for a few days.

It would be interesting to listen the justification as to why should get vaccinated....I don’t think there would be any.

[Biker 1]

wkcock changing the narrative - so if we treat it like flu in the future, will there be red countries with a particularly nasty strain of flu that you will need to quarantine from on return to Blighty, presumably with the 10 years behind bars threat for non-compliance? Will we lock down in future for flu???

[Twinfan]

purplepenguin said:

Informed consent by parent/guardian - something is very off here

Yep. I can't find the trial on clintrials.gov which is annoying as it would give some inclusion and exclusion criteria. Maybe isaldiri wil have better luck finding out some info!

EDIT: Of course, clinicaltrials.gov covers US subjects and EudraCT covers the EU but because of Brexit our trials aren't listed there any more. I don't think there's a UK only source yet?

Edited by Twinfan on Saturday 13th February 14:39

[RSTurboPaul]

Biker 1 said:

wkcock changing the narrative - so if we treat it like flu in the future, will there be red countries with a particularly nasty strain of flu that you will need to quarantine from on return to Blighty, presumably with the 10 years behind bars threat for non-compliance? Will we lock down in future for flu???

Well, Hancock has already said about using the insanely large testing capacity for other things...

[Tony427]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

This isnt just ineptitude and mismanagement. Its criminality.

[ruggedscotty]

scottyp123 said:

RSTurboPaul said:

BBC story on why childbearing age women, who are unlikely to suffer ill health from Covid, should get vaccinated

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56012529

BBC said:

Even something as simple as an over-the-counter painkiller carries a tiny risk of ulcers and internal bleeding. But the risk for most people is so small when used correctly, that it is outweighed by the benefits of treating relatively mild pain.

And the benefits of preventing an illness that we know can be life-threatening have been judged to be much greater than any theoretical risk of vaccination.

I take it they didn't post those tweets of that woman, maybe a nurse or something who was pregnant and got the jab, encouraging everyone else to do it and then a few days later announced that she had miscarried. It may be connected it may not be but there should be some balance in these media stories.

As you said, it may be connected it may not be connected....

This is about the cure being worse than the disease ? there is a potential way out of this mess with innoculations, and people are getting fixated with some of the issues being generated by the vaccine ? To the point that those individuals may be missing the bigger picture - the issues with the disease are horrendous. the vaccination program is being rolled out, if people were being seriously impacted by the vaccine it would be on the radar wouldnt it. we would be seeing the issues kicking off. But were seeing a lot of good coming from the vaccination program.

if it was....

1,000,000 dead by the virus

or

5,000 dead by the vaccine.....

what would you do ? what would you decide ?

[dmahon]

BJ and HJ are in sync over the last few days talking about learning to live with it and ultimately being managed like flu.

Maybe this is the start of the great gaslighting where they tell us how we are all overreacting and now need to get back to the office to save Pret?

[anonymous-user]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Last September my daughter (12) developed a pain in her knee that made walking painful and meant she couldn’t play sport at school (she is very sporty). Went through our local GP surgery and was referred to child physiotherapy. At the time I was told she would be waiting at least 4 weeks for an appointment. Because this injury was having a big impact on my daughter’s life physically, socially and psychologically I decided to take her to my chiropractor (who is a genius) and not wait the 4 weeks. He fixed the problem and a week later she was back to normal, and has been ever since. We got a call yesterday from guess who, a child physiotherapy department asking if we still needed an appointment.

So as far as the nhs is concerned thats 5 months for a 12 year old to be unable to walk without pain or play any sports, for what was a very fixable problem. And I pay my taxes for this crap, fk that.

[smashing]

ruggedscotty said:

scottyp123 said:

RSTurboPaul said:

BBC story on why childbearing age women, who are unlikely to suffer ill health from Covid, should get vaccinated

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-56012529

BBC said:

Even something as simple as an over-the-counter painkiller carries a tiny risk of ulcers and internal bleeding. But the risk for most people is so small when used correctly, that it is outweighed by the benefits of treating relatively mild pain.

And the benefits of preventing an illness that we know can be life-threatening have been judged to be much greater than any theoretical risk of vaccination.

I take it they didn't post those tweets of that woman, maybe a nurse or something who was pregnant and got the jab, encouraging everyone else to do it and then a few days later announced that she had miscarried. It may be connected it may not be but there should be some balance in these media stories.

As you said, it may be connected it may not be connected....

This is about the cure being worse than the disease ? there is a potential way out of this mess with innoculations, and people are getting fixated with some of the issues being generated by the vaccine ? To the point that those individuals may be missing the bigger picture - the issues with the disease are horrendous. the vaccination program is being rolled out, if people were being seriously impacted by the vaccine it would be on the radar wouldnt it. we would be seeing the issues kicking off. But were seeing a lot of good coming from the vaccination program.

if it was....

1,000,000 dead by the virus

or

5,000 dead by the vaccine.....

what would you do ? what would you decide ?

true to form I see

[Douglas Quaid]

Brainpox said:

Who said I'm enjoying it? fk off yourself. The answer isn't to let everyone run wild and not give a st. Keeping the health service running is more of a priority don't you think? Think bigger picture.

What makes you think that anyone opposed to the way it’s being done now wants to let everyone run wild and not give a st? It’s not binary you know. For some reason the lockdown lovers always state that.

[MikeT66]

Good to see the boys in blue getting their priorities in order. Again. WTF do their daily briefings consist of? "Today we are focussing on people visiting beaches, tomorrow we'll look at shutting private enterprises trying to offer a service to the community and surviving, whilst ignoring big business doing the exact same thing. Don't forget the importance of patrolling supermarkets and shopping centres looking for chancers not wearing a mask. Now, get out there and make those streets safe."

https://fb.watch/3DHrKTKcej/