CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 10)

[stevensdrs]

In our council area " Lanarkshire" there were 47 deaths from Covid without any other underlying cause in the whole of 2020. This represents a percentage per capita of 0.0071%. This was obtained by a concerned citizen through the freedom of information act. We have had a year of lockdown doing untold damage for 47 lives lost. I expect more people died in accidents in this council area in that time. WTAF?
No wonder this information was not generally published as it puts into perspective the over reaction of the Government and the misinformation from the NHS.

[Nickgnome]

johnboy1975 said:

So if Boris tomorrow said "zero covid, full lockdown til April 2022" that would be fine as you cannot control it?

We do have (some) control. More than the government would care to admit. 10m on the street tomorrow would end it (all) - for better or worse.

I guess I charge you with being complicit in this

And I charge myself with cowardice for not speaking up sooner, and not speaking up now (my weasel excuse that I have no voice is a poor excuse, because what little voice I have, I'm not prepared to use).

I'll wait til May, the government will move the goalposts, I'll shrug and wait for the next date given to me. And hope that date is truthful, whilst knowing it's not. And quietly "rebelling" by seeing friends and family.

He won't because the science does not say that.


Go and play shares or something. you can do it cheap and it's far more fun than the lottery.

[johnboy1975]

Nickgnome said:

johnboy1975 said:

So if Boris tomorrow said "zero covid, full lockdown til April 2022" that would be fine as you cannot control it?

We do have (some) control. More than the government would care to admit. 10m on the street tomorrow would end it (all) - for better or worse.

I guess I charge you with being complicit in this

And I charge myself with cowardice for not speaking up sooner, and not speaking up now (my weasel excuse that I have no voice is a poor excuse, because what little voice I have, I'm not prepared to use).

I'll wait til May, the government will move the goalposts, I'll shrug and wait for the next date given to me. And hope that date is truthful, whilst knowing it's not. And quietly "rebelling" by seeing friends and family.

He won't because the science does not say that.


Go and play shares or something. you can do it cheap and it's far more fun than the lottery.

If "the science" says lockdown in summer, would you like to hazard a guess as to what "the science" will say in winter?

Fancy living the rest of your life like this? No biggie I suppose? Yes there's an element of "great reset" in there, and no i don't really believe it. Or rather, I can see it leading towards it, and nobody has the courage or conviction to stop it. Including me

Any more demonstrations planned? Its gone quiet on that front......

[Ashfordian]

RSTurboPaul said:

johnboy1975 said:

MG CHRIS said:

Slagathore said:

There's a reason young and healthy people aren't offered the winter flu jab? And it's not forced on everyone?

The risk profile for flu is known, as it is now for covid, so why such a different approach to each? Both respiratory viruses, both seem to spread in similar ways, similar fatality rate?

They know we will have to live with it, and that it will continue to mutate and likely become like the others and become part of the cold or flu viruses we manage without lockdowns and mass vaccination for the young and healthy every year.

So when will the determination be made that not everyone has to be vaccinated against it? or will we have to be vaccinated every year for the rest of our lives? When will they accept it is no longer a threat to public health?

When will it be acceptable for it to cause death like flu does every year and in what sort of numbers?

Forcing young healthy people in to taking a vaccine for something that poses almost zero harm to them is absolute insanity. Just like every year they aren't forced the winter flu vaccine.

And it can't be about transmitting the disease, because wouldn't we then all be forced in having the winter flu vaccine so we don't accidently spread it? You can be asymptomatic and have normal winter flu.

Or is that coming next?

I'm certain that if they try and coerce the public in to having the vaccine by encouraging private business etc to ban them from entry and forcing vaccine passports etc then there will be a very easily winnable legal challenge coming very soon.

Very easy covid 19 or the various strains is far more transmissible than flu. If the young which include me (28) don't get vaccinated or chose not too we can then possibly spread it amongst us now that isn't a problem unless its mutates and only take one to mutate too evade the current vaccine for it to then spread again in the older generation. We know by the data the current vaccine does prevent spread as well as protect the individual so if we can vaccinate enough people this includes the young the chances of mutation is reduced so the chance of another lockdown and further restrictions are also reduced.

The more people that get vaccinated, the greater the chance of the virus mutating to evade the vaccine. (Vaccine escape). Adapt or die......its been going on for millenia

Covid19 just said "hold my beer"......

Does this mean we can never reopen our borders?

Can I just ask the clever people on here - is the part in bold correct?

I am certain I have read claims in both directions - i.e. 'we must vaccinate everyone because the virus running free will mean it mutates', as well as 'vaccination will force the virus to mutate'.

So which is it? Or are both correct?!


If both are true, I would have thought letting the less virulent strains naturally spread would make more sense than trying to stop it, making room for the crazy nutter versions to develop...

The Kent mutation occurred when prevalence was low last summer.

Logically if the vaccine does not stop infection the more people vaccinated the more likely it will mutate in a way that it avoids the vaccine, especially as mutation is likely to occur in a person whose immune system is going to be weaker than a younger, healthier person.

At the moment scientists are playing god, they don't know the long term effects the vaccine will have on the virus.

Vaccination could equally force a mutation where it simply becomes more transmissable but less virulent.

Who knows but the virus is going to do what a virus does.

[danllama]

johnboy1975 said:

Any more demonstrations planned? Its gone quiet on that front......

Why do you think they've spaced apart the lifting of restrictions so much?

[johnboy1975]

Boris on face masks in the classroom (some time ago)

"Clearly nonsensical "

https://twitter.com/pcrclaims/status/1364016969662...

[ucb]

Zoobeef said:

Fingers crossed they get less preachy now they are focusing a bit more on not spreading it.
I wonder how many times they looked dying covid patients in the eyes and said "Sorry, I gave you that".

Basless accusation from someone with clearly little idea of the implication of my post.
Our Trust has always provided PPE for all wards and areasa since February last year. Our in-Trust infection rate is one of the lowest in England.

[Smollet]

[johnboy1975]

danllama said:

Why do you think they've spaced apart the lifting of restrictions so much?

There's usually something planned. I think people gave Boris a chance with his roadmap (knowing full well it would be bks) and (more importantly) they have given a chance for the vaccine to be rolled out to the vunerable.

They can't claim we are killing granny anymore. Whats next, killing auntie?

[isaldiri]

grumbledoak said:

isaldiri said:

Ct levels work on a log scale. There is a heap more virus in a ct of 25 compared to 30. That change doesn't seem large but it is very significant in terms of amount of viral particles.

Well aware of that. But it's a long way short of the 40 that was talked of last summer and the rise, fall, rise effect isn't easy to interpret.

And the infection survey has clearly shown that ct levels on average were never anywhere near 40 despite some wild claims of most positives being based on ct cycles of 40+ positives. The data from the ONS has shown it has been around 25-33 for the 50th percentile median average varying on that range depending on whether infections are increasing or decreasing. Someone here did also post that he sent a question to the ONS where they stated practically every ct count they recorded was below 37. the lots of ct positives at 40+ cycles suggestion was just plainly wrong.

[johnboy1975]

ucb said:

Zoobeef said:

Fingers crossed they get less preachy now they are focusing a bit more on not spreading it.
I wonder how many times they looked dying covid patients in the eyes and said "Sorry, I gave you that".

Basless accusation from someone with clearly little idea of the implication of my post.
Our Trust has always provided PPE for all wards and areasa since February last year. Our in-Trust infection rate is one of the lowest in England.

So if you do it properly, you get low nosocomial infections? Whilst I doff my hat to you and your trust, its not exactly a ringing endorsement of the higher infection rate trusts?

Are you in a high transmission area? All the more kudos if so. And if not, maybe thats linked?

[chrisgtx]

ucb said:

Zoobeef said:

Fingers crossed they get less preachy now they are focusing a bit more on not spreading it.
I wonder how many times they looked dying covid patients in the eyes and said "Sorry, I gave you that".

Basless accusation from someone with clearly little idea of the implication of my post.
Our Trust has always provided PPE for all wards and areasa since February last year. Our in-Trust infection rate is one of the lowest in England.

Hi UCB
I don’t know if you saw my question earlier? I can’t find it or it’s been deleted because I asked about ivermectin?.
Do you think the ITU situation is a victim of its own success in a way, as time has gone on doctors have found ways of treating it and those now taking up beds For a long time are the ones perhaps in the first wave would of died?
And are many of the younger patients obese.
And lastly what are your thoughts on ivermectin?

[ucb]

johnboy1975 said:

So if you do it properly, you get low nosocomial infections? Whilst I doff my hat to you and your trust, its not exactly a ringing endorsement of the higher infection rate trusts?

Are you in a high transmission area? All the more kudos if so. And if not, maybe thats linked?

High transmission area (rate 250-400/100k locally)

[Smollet]

johnboy1975 said:

danllama said:

They can't claim we are killing granny anymore. Whats next, killing auntie?

Grannies can be aunties. Double whammy. We’re fked

[johnboy1975]

ucb said:

johnboy1975 said:

So if you do it properly, you get low nosocomial infections? Whilst I doff my hat to you and your trust, its not exactly a ringing endorsement of the higher infection rate trusts?

Are you in a high transmission area? All the more kudos if so. And if not, maybe thats linked?

High transmission area (rate 250-400/100k locally)

Pay, thats not high, some places have been over 1000

I jest - well done

I remember the days when 20/100k was high, and could get your holiday ruined at the drop of a hat.

[Jasandjules]

ucb said:

Basless accusation from someone with clearly little idea of the implication of my post.
Our Trust has always provided PPE for all wards and areasa since February last year. Our in-Trust infection rate is one of the lowest in England.

But do you accept that over 25% of Covid deaths followed from infections contracted in hospitals?

[mondeoman]

Gadgetmac said:

mondeoman said:

Gadgetmac said:

JagLover said:

Alucidnation said:

Has anyone actually come up with a credible reason why they think HMG, and the rest of the world for that matter, are destroying their economies etc on purpose?

Most governments are weak, their policies driven by short term popularity and media pressure.

What is indisputable is that many have seized on this to further their own agenda and a significant proportion of these individuals are in favour of the reordering of our economies and societies on environmental or far left grounds.

The longer they keep us in lockdown the more damage they inflict and the closer they believe they will come to their goal. As an explanation it matches far more closely to observed actions and outcomes than believing they are acting in good faith. This explains why a respected academic institution can produce a study claiming that we will see thousands of deaths a day in summer if restrictions are relaxed in late spring. Despite vaccination and seasonality.

So it's all a Conspiracy...just so we're clear?

Where did he say conspiracy? Oh, he didn't.

I know understanding isn't your strongest suit but try re-reading it looking for the words "many, they and their". It's implied

From the resident dimwit, that's not unexpected

[Graveworm]

Jasandjules said:

But do you accept that over 25% of Covid deaths followed from infections contracted in hospitals?

Very unlikely do you have a source?
It's possible 25% of hospital infections were caught in hospital but that will not equate to 25% of fatal infections (about a third will typically be asymptomatic for example) as the other 75% are going to include the most serious cases.

[stevensdrs]

All the pieces are starting to fit together now. The change in the law to allow access to medical records and now an app to allow these details to be accessed by anyone wanting to know your vaccination status. Sorry sir if you don't agree we can't let you in here or even out of the country. Despite continual denials from the Government ask yourself why make the law changes and why give a grant to an app developer to come up with the app. Think it's all conspiracy nonsense, it's just been shown on the ITV news. It is going to happen because no one will stand against it. Just another piece of mission creep to remove personal freedoms and liberties. No Biggie!

[isaldiri]

Otispunkmeyer said:

I've brought up Mareks in chickens before. What has happened there is that you now need to vaccinate all your chickens all of the time because if they do get Mareks, its curtains for them. Whereas when Mareks first appeared, the mortality rate was much lower (now its 100%).

That was caused by mass vaccination using a non-sterilising vaccine that had very good effectiveness. Its not that the virus decided to get stronger, its that it mutated into a stronger variant and, where normally it would have killed the host and not moved on, now all the hosts were resistant to it, so it persisted. Few decades down the line, it means a pretty potent virus has been allowed to persist because it can still pass from host to host without killing them all off and stopping its own spread.


I am not sure that this will happen here though. It sounds like you have to have a very effective virus and you have to be able to sustain vaccination of the whole population. There are plenty of non-sterilising vaccines in use, but not everyone gets them (or needs them) and they're often not very highly effective. Flu-vaccine is a good example, its not sterilising, but only a subset of people get the shot every year (at risk people) and its only got a 50-60% effectiveness anyway.

I think we'll be in the same boat here. Only the Pfizer seems to have 90%+ effectiveness, AZN is around 70% and of course, not sure on the others like Moderna or Novavax. As much as some may dream for it, not everyone is going to get vaccinated for one reason or another.

So probably, not something to worry about? Again, not an expert so someone who knows more is welcome to shoot me down or pad out what I found.

I'm not really sure bringing up marek's as a possible future outcome achieves anything more than further (unnecessary imo) scaremongering. There are a lot of human viruses that circulate throughout the population constantly without sterilising immunity whether vaccine driven or not. The 4 pre Sars1 existing human coronaviruses for example. It's a (very small) possibility sure but at this point in time given what has happened for all manner of other viruses, I'd suggest very very unlikely to happen.