CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 10)
Discussion
Carrot said:
ant1973 said:
Another decent take on the WFH debate.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/02/forget...
I find myself largely in agreement with the sentiment but accept that I might just be old!
Paywall, whats the gist?https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/03/02/forget...
I find myself largely in agreement with the sentiment but accept that I might just be old!
Carrot said:
Paywall, whats the gist?
Telegraph said:
You don't need to sell me the advantages of working from home. It’s 31 years since I decided to take the plunge and go freelance, starting out with just a desk and a telephone – it was nearly a decade before the internet became accessible to ordinary folk. For years, while others have started their day piling onto overcrowded trains and roads, I have spent the early morning taking a walk on the fens, braving nothing more than the occasional angry swan.
Why, then, am I so sceptical about the received wisdom that working from home is going to become a permanent part of working life for millions of people? I know there are firms like JP Morgan and HSBC who say they intend to move to a ‘hybrid’ working model in future, with employees dividing their time between office and home. But I am more convinced by the blunt honesty of Goldman Sachs CEO David Solomon who last week described working from home as an “aberration that we are going to correct as soon as possible”.
He is right. I am an aberration. I can cope with the long hours alone at my desk because I have always been a bit of a loner and have long since got over the paranoia that comes with being isolated from colleagues. I know enough about human nature to know that most people are not like me – they need human company to motivate themselves, to bounce ideas off each other. Working from home is alright for me because I early on made the decision that I wasn’t bothered about rising to the top of some hierarchical structure. But if I were 25 and I had ambitions to lead a corporation – or even just rise to area manager – the last place I would want to be working was my own bedroom, or more likely my parents’ spare bedroom.
I am sure that many companies will do as they say and experiment with a hybrid model of working. But I would happily bet a Goldman Sachs bonus (if I had it) that the people who will in future be running large companies will be those who shun the opportunity to spend half their time at home – and who instead make the daily journey to the office. The idea that anyone is going to reach the top by holding Zoom meetings while baking banana bread is utter bunk. Once the world gets properly back to work the lockdown lifestyle is going to seem lazy and decadent. It will also leave many people feeling far more stressed than would a daily trip to the office. If you work from home, you can never truly relax there. If I take a week off I have to go somewhere else.
Before this crisis, the travel was very much in the opposite direction: although the internet had theoretically made working from home possible for millions of people, corporate life was becoming ever-more concentrated in clusters of high-rise offices. Just look at the London skyline. Even the modest 1980s experiment of dispersing offices around the M25, with meetings in corporately-owned country houses had been reversed. Businesses wanted their staff working in close proximity to each other, because that was what they found worked for them. Covid-19 isn’t going to change those fundamentals, any more than the 1918/19 flu pandemic reversed the flight to cities.
Many companies have coped admirably with the disruption caused by lockdown, and have found ways to cope with the disadvantage of having staff scattered around. But when normality returns, just watch those offices, trains and coffee shops fill up again as businesses relearn the benefits of having their staff work together in teams.
Why, then, am I so sceptical about the received wisdom that working from home is going to become a permanent part of working life for millions of people? I know there are firms like JP Morgan and HSBC who say they intend to move to a ‘hybrid’ working model in future, with employees dividing their time between office and home. But I am more convinced by the blunt honesty of Goldman Sachs CEO David Solomon who last week described working from home as an “aberration that we are going to correct as soon as possible”.
He is right. I am an aberration. I can cope with the long hours alone at my desk because I have always been a bit of a loner and have long since got over the paranoia that comes with being isolated from colleagues. I know enough about human nature to know that most people are not like me – they need human company to motivate themselves, to bounce ideas off each other. Working from home is alright for me because I early on made the decision that I wasn’t bothered about rising to the top of some hierarchical structure. But if I were 25 and I had ambitions to lead a corporation – or even just rise to area manager – the last place I would want to be working was my own bedroom, or more likely my parents’ spare bedroom.
I am sure that many companies will do as they say and experiment with a hybrid model of working. But I would happily bet a Goldman Sachs bonus (if I had it) that the people who will in future be running large companies will be those who shun the opportunity to spend half their time at home – and who instead make the daily journey to the office. The idea that anyone is going to reach the top by holding Zoom meetings while baking banana bread is utter bunk. Once the world gets properly back to work the lockdown lifestyle is going to seem lazy and decadent. It will also leave many people feeling far more stressed than would a daily trip to the office. If you work from home, you can never truly relax there. If I take a week off I have to go somewhere else.
Before this crisis, the travel was very much in the opposite direction: although the internet had theoretically made working from home possible for millions of people, corporate life was becoming ever-more concentrated in clusters of high-rise offices. Just look at the London skyline. Even the modest 1980s experiment of dispersing offices around the M25, with meetings in corporately-owned country houses had been reversed. Businesses wanted their staff working in close proximity to each other, because that was what they found worked for them. Covid-19 isn’t going to change those fundamentals, any more than the 1918/19 flu pandemic reversed the flight to cities.
Many companies have coped admirably with the disruption caused by lockdown, and have found ways to cope with the disadvantage of having staff scattered around. But when normality returns, just watch those offices, trains and coffee shops fill up again as businesses relearn the benefits of having their staff work together in teams.
Ahonen said:
This number seems to be steadily increasing. As the raw death numbers are reducing this is starting to become a significant percentage - over 10% now.
Can someone explain why deaths without a postive test are being reported in the daily figures? On the news every night we are given the daily deaths total and it's clearly stated that this number is covid deaths within 28 days of a positive test. Surely if there is no positive test result, then they shouldn't be included in the numbers? Or am I misunderstanding something?Ahonen said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
This number seems to be steadily increasing. As the raw death numbers are reducing this is starting to become a significant percentage - over 10% now.RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
Carrot said:
Paywall, whats the gist?
Telegraph said:
You don't need to sell me the advantages of working from home. It’s 31 years since I decided to take the plunge and go freelance, starting out with just a desk and a telephone – it was nearly a decade before the internet became accessible to ordinary folk. For years, while others have started their day piling onto overcrowded trains and roads, I have spent the early morning taking a walk on the fens, braving nothing more than the occasional angry swan.
Why, then, am I so sceptical about the received wisdom that working from home is going to become a permanent part of working life for millions of people? I know there are firms like JP Morgan and HSBC who say they intend to move to a ‘hybrid’ working model in future, with employees dividing their time between office and home. But I am more convinced by the blunt honesty of Goldman Sachs CEO David Solomon who last week described working from home as an “aberration that we are going to correct as soon as possible”.
He is right. I am an aberration. I can cope with the long hours alone at my desk because I have always been a bit of a loner and have long since got over the paranoia that comes with being isolated from colleagues. I know enough about human nature to know that most people are not like me – they need human company to motivate themselves, to bounce ideas off each other. Working from home is alright for me because I early on made the decision that I wasn’t bothered about rising to the top of some hierarchical structure. But if I were 25 and I had ambitions to lead a corporation – or even just rise to area manager – the last place I would want to be working was my own bedroom, or more likely my parents’ spare bedroom.
I am sure that many companies will do as they say and experiment with a hybrid model of working. But I would happily bet a Goldman Sachs bonus (if I had it) that the people who will in future be running large companies will be those who shun the opportunity to spend half their time at home – and who instead make the daily journey to the office. The idea that anyone is going to reach the top by holding Zoom meetings while baking banana bread is utter bunk. Once the world gets properly back to work the lockdown lifestyle is going to seem lazy and decadent. It will also leave many people feeling far more stressed than would a daily trip to the office. If you work from home, you can never truly relax there. If I take a week off I have to go somewhere else.
Before this crisis, the travel was very much in the opposite direction: although the internet had theoretically made working from home possible for millions of people, corporate life was becoming ever-more concentrated in clusters of high-rise offices. Just look at the London skyline. Even the modest 1980s experiment of dispersing offices around the M25, with meetings in corporately-owned country houses had been reversed. Businesses wanted their staff working in close proximity to each other, because that was what they found worked for them. Covid-19 isn’t going to change those fundamentals, any more than the 1918/19 flu pandemic reversed the flight to cities.
Many companies have coped admirably with the disruption caused by lockdown, and have found ways to cope with the disadvantage of having staff scattered around. But when normality returns, just watch those offices, trains and coffee shops fill up again as businesses relearn the benefits of having their staff work together in teams.
Why, then, am I so sceptical about the received wisdom that working from home is going to become a permanent part of working life for millions of people? I know there are firms like JP Morgan and HSBC who say they intend to move to a ‘hybrid’ working model in future, with employees dividing their time between office and home. But I am more convinced by the blunt honesty of Goldman Sachs CEO David Solomon who last week described working from home as an “aberration that we are going to correct as soon as possible”.
He is right. I am an aberration. I can cope with the long hours alone at my desk because I have always been a bit of a loner and have long since got over the paranoia that comes with being isolated from colleagues. I know enough about human nature to know that most people are not like me – they need human company to motivate themselves, to bounce ideas off each other. Working from home is alright for me because I early on made the decision that I wasn’t bothered about rising to the top of some hierarchical structure. But if I were 25 and I had ambitions to lead a corporation – or even just rise to area manager – the last place I would want to be working was my own bedroom, or more likely my parents’ spare bedroom.
I am sure that many companies will do as they say and experiment with a hybrid model of working. But I would happily bet a Goldman Sachs bonus (if I had it) that the people who will in future be running large companies will be those who shun the opportunity to spend half their time at home – and who instead make the daily journey to the office. The idea that anyone is going to reach the top by holding Zoom meetings while baking banana bread is utter bunk. Once the world gets properly back to work the lockdown lifestyle is going to seem lazy and decadent. It will also leave many people feeling far more stressed than would a daily trip to the office. If you work from home, you can never truly relax there. If I take a week off I have to go somewhere else.
Before this crisis, the travel was very much in the opposite direction: although the internet had theoretically made working from home possible for millions of people, corporate life was becoming ever-more concentrated in clusters of high-rise offices. Just look at the London skyline. Even the modest 1980s experiment of dispersing offices around the M25, with meetings in corporately-owned country houses had been reversed. Businesses wanted their staff working in close proximity to each other, because that was what they found worked for them. Covid-19 isn’t going to change those fundamentals, any more than the 1918/19 flu pandemic reversed the flight to cities.
Many companies have coped admirably with the disruption caused by lockdown, and have found ways to cope with the disadvantage of having staff scattered around. But when normality returns, just watch those offices, trains and coffee shops fill up again as businesses relearn the benefits of having their staff work together in teams.
It's bound to be a mixed approach. There will be some people who want to WFH all the time and perhaps a majority of those will be the ones who have gone as far as they want to in their careers. I know several people who have moved too far away from London to commute back too often, but still want to retain their London jobs.
A majority of people will probably prefer 2-4 days at home, but a lot of those will probably start coming to the office more if they feel that career progression was at stake.
Others (me included) will probably be tempted back into the office more often if others commuting less often make the trains less of a nightmare!
One of the main benefits from the employers perspective to encourage working from home appears to be to save costs by reducing their office space, but it will be interesting to see how/if that actually manifests. As the author of this article points out, the trend up to 2019 was to move into increasingly central and expensive office accommodation.
Graveworm said:
TellYaWhatItIs said:
Am I correct in saying this can be done by a doctor over the phone who has not even treated or seen the patient?
Nohttps://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2020/7/schedu...
TellYaWhatItIs said:
This isn't the actual document I was looking for and does not mention the 'phone' I suggested but it seems to suggest a doctor who didn't treat or was present can sign the cert.
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2020/7/schedu...
Not just for Coronavirus but for anything but only if the actual attending doctor is unable to and as you said not by phone. The guidance gives examples where the attending doctor is self-isolating, unwell, or has pressure to attend patients. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2020/7/schedu...
scenario8 said:
My daily lunch time catch up of this thread is a more pleasant experience this afternoon. An almost entirely civilised discussion today. Wonder how that could be?
Keep it up, chaps.
Further good news wrt to the daily reportings.
I was just pondering what might have happened? I think there can only be one conclusion.Keep it up, chaps.
Further good news wrt to the daily reportings.
kingston12 said:
One of the main benefits from the employers perspective to encourage working from home appears to be to save costs by reducing their office space, but it will be interesting to see how/if that actually manifests. As the author of this article points out, the trend up to 2019 was to move into increasingly central and expensive office accommodation.
Get ready for white glove man, then. Unbounded joy...Gawd, the facebook karens are out in force again with the "people breaking the rules are ruining it for everyone". It's like they can see the end coming, and are fighting a desperate rearguard action to hang on to lockdown as long as possible. "I'm a nurse and have to travel to work, everyone should stay at home to make my commute easier".
Some people are in for a very big shock this summer. I bet they'll still be moaning about it next year.
Some people are in for a very big shock this summer. I bet they'll still be moaning about it next year.
CrutyRammers said:
Gawd, the facebook karens are out in force again with the "people breaking the rules are ruining it for everyone". It's like they can see the end coming, and are fighting a desperate rearguard action to hang on to lockdown as long as possible. "I'm a nurse and have to travel to work, everyone should stay at home to make my commute easier".
Some people are in for a very big shock this summer. I bet they'll still be moaning about it next year.
In for a shock this Summer? They'd be in for a shock if they went to any moderately sized town centre on a bright, warm weekend day currently. I live in throwing distance to a 'pretty' market town on a prominent river with a population of circa 20,000. It's gone from 28 Days Later to looking 90% normal in the last fortnight. Tide has well and truly turned. Some people are in for a very big shock this summer. I bet they'll still be moaning about it next year.
CrutyRammers said:
Gawd, the facebook karens are out in force again with the "people breaking the rules are ruining it for everyone". It's like they can see the end coming, and are fighting a desperate rearguard action to hang on to lockdown as long as possible. "I'm a nurse and have to travel to work, everyone should stay at home to make my commute easier".
Some people are in for a very big shock this summer. I bet they'll still be moaning about it next year.
It could be the opposite. I can see the end coming, which I am as desperate as most to see. My only worry is that an uptick in cases could stall that. However, personally I have seen little to support that outdoor contact is a big driver, but it's easy to see why people could be forgiven for thinking it is. Couple that with the vaccines coming in numbers that will make a significant impact, along with summer weather and I am still looking forward to the end.Some people are in for a very big shock this summer. I bet they'll still be moaning about it next year.
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