CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 10)
Discussion
I'm just at a loss with all this. I posted a similar thing in the do you know covid antivaxxer thread, but no one answered it.
Vaccination was our way out. Do the old and vulnerable and if we still don't open up Grant Shapps would be manning the barricades with the rest of us. That was what was been said?
But the narrative seems to have shifted to vaccinate absolutely everyone. But it feels to me that to vaccinate 10s of millions for a tiny extra percent of effectiveness is diminishing returns if we have to administer 100s of millions of vaccines every year on a rolling basis if we factor in boosters and changes for new variants? The infrastructure and ongoing costs I don't even want to think about.
At what point do we say the costs out weigh the benefits? The NHS ran with this mantra for all patients it used to treat. Its not like perspective has been just lost, but denial it even existed.
We moaned about a train line costing 50billion over 10 years. We have already spent £400,000,000,000. And we seem prepared to throw £100s billions more at it.
If the vaccines are as good as the studies show it will cut deaths (from covid) by over 90% will it not or is that too simplistic? Is that still not good enough? This is amongst a background of no one dying from flu either.
I'm really trying to see why things are going the way they are but they make no sense to me at all.
Vaccination was our way out. Do the old and vulnerable and if we still don't open up Grant Shapps would be manning the barricades with the rest of us. That was what was been said?
But the narrative seems to have shifted to vaccinate absolutely everyone. But it feels to me that to vaccinate 10s of millions for a tiny extra percent of effectiveness is diminishing returns if we have to administer 100s of millions of vaccines every year on a rolling basis if we factor in boosters and changes for new variants? The infrastructure and ongoing costs I don't even want to think about.
At what point do we say the costs out weigh the benefits? The NHS ran with this mantra for all patients it used to treat. Its not like perspective has been just lost, but denial it even existed.
We moaned about a train line costing 50billion over 10 years. We have already spent £400,000,000,000. And we seem prepared to throw £100s billions more at it.
If the vaccines are as good as the studies show it will cut deaths (from covid) by over 90% will it not or is that too simplistic? Is that still not good enough? This is amongst a background of no one dying from flu either.
I'm really trying to see why things are going the way they are but they make no sense to me at all.
Hancock will be dancing round his bedroom Buffalo Bill style to this news:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/02/braz...
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/02/braz...
danllama said:
johnboy1975 said:
danllama said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yep. Been saying this for months. They don't want this to be over. I really hope Europe/ the World open up quicker than us, with less vaccine, and show a pretty minimal uptick (due to seasonality?)
And that a political party can use this data to show the Tories up. Doubt it will be labour
JHB is going to do her nut tomorrow
The world is opening up quicker than us, despite our vaccine success. Much of Europe has opened hospitality. Large chunks of the US have no restrictions, unrestricted movement etc.
It isn't hard to see why many think our government have some other agenda, and I get the sense they feel they are running out of time to get done whatever it is they're trying to.
As someone said earlier, the conservatives are destroying this country. And our MP's and media are encouraging and allowing them to. It seems to be Boris is playing the same game as Australia. I've never wanted to be in Florida so badly in my life.
Edited by danllama on Tuesday 2nd March 23:36
Posted this an hour ago
johnboy1975 said:
Bring forward non essential retail to reopen on the 8th March. And lump in the hairdressers and gyms with the 8th March date (previously 12 April). Beer gardens (outside hospitality) too on 8th March, and full reopening 12 April (rule of 6 til May 17th)
And this at 5am (I thought this was a conversation worth pursuing, but it either got lost in the early morning mist, or Uggers and Isaldiri didn't share my opinion. I'll include the nest)johnboy1975 said:
isaldiri said:
Uggers said:
There has been a lot of talk about it on this very thread.
Edit-also the reason why we probably go into another lockdown this winter.
It's odd that some seem to be actively wishing to be locked down again from some of the posts like above. Edit-also the reason why we probably go into another lockdown this winter.
A bad recenr winter flu year has never even come close to requiring the kind of hospital or icu capacity that covid has required in apr20 and jan21. 2014/15 winter and 17/18 winter had 20-30k excess deaths. ICU capacity never had to go above 3200-3300. In jan21 I think we were over 5500 at some points.
Edited by isaldiri on Tuesday 2nd March 00:01
If lockdowns are branded a success, which seems to be the way its been span, with zero opposition, it will be Tool A in a very small pandemic toolbox consisting of just one tool. I say zero opposition - I mean from credible sources. Anyone (credible) who sticks their neck out gets smeared with all the 5G wibble or "age apartheid " and thus there is therefore zero credible people in authority speaking out, either because they've been branded not credible, or they've seen what has happened to others and kept their mouth shut.
There was talk of "never locking down again" after lockdown 1. After various regional restrictions (amounting to much the same thing) and two further lockdowns we should - by the original metric of not overwhelming the NHS - have emerged some weeks ago to something more akin to old normal (maybe with "rule of 6" type restrictions until the over 50s are jabbed)
I dont think we will lockdown for flu. I do think its a realistic concern that we might lockdown for the Brazilian, or Californian, or SA variant, or new vaccine resistant variant - should effacy be proven to drop to c50% for any of them.
And governments worldwide are "up to something" with vaccination passes
And the WeF has shown its true colours (regarding co2 emmisions)
And Matt Hancock wants to continue to test the arse off everything. (Level 2 on the 5 level plan is "continued monitoring and testing". Level 1 is impossible (covid eliminated) - and still requires routine testing at borders).
Once everyone's been jabbed, whats the point? Especially if you're not going to take any action off the back of the results.
Put all that together, and when we get out of this lockdown (3 months too late) we will firmly be in "the new normal". Which will be a vastly inferior place to the sunlit uplands of 2019 normality
johnboy1975 said:
danllama said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yep. Been saying this for months. They don't want this to be over. I really hope Europe/ the World open up quicker than us, with less vaccine, and show a pretty minimal uptick (due to seasonality?)
And that a political party can use this data to show the Tories up. Doubt it will be labour
JHB is going to do her nut tomorrow
It was be very funny if we are last to reopen!
RSTurboPaul said:
Taylor James said:
Jordan210 said:
Furlough being extended till September!
Cost of £56BN so far and £100BN by end of September. This is Alice in Wonderland economics.
t...Starting at a school near you soon, if people don't refuse.
ant1973 said:
Hancock will be dancing round his bedroom Buffalo Bill style to this news:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/02/braz...
Based on one hell of a lot of slightly wonky epidemiological modelling where the starting point is an extrapolation of a non random survey of antibody prevalence. So clearly it's'the science' and no one can question those numbers.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/mar/02/braz...
Nevertheless when all the silly panic about it proves to be completely pointless similar to every other bloody variant at some point even the guardian might lose interest in screaming about the next scary variant.....
isaldiri said:
Based on one hell of a lot of slightly wonky epidemiological modelling where the starting point is an extrapolation of a non random survey of antibody prevalence. So clearly it's'the science' and no one can question those numbers.
Nevertheless when all the silly panic about it proves to be completely pointless similar to every other bloody variant at some point even the guardian might lose interest in screaming about the next scary variant.....
As soon as I saw them quote the 76% figure for Manaus I closed the article, that's been exposed as nonsense far too many times to be taken seriously. Nevertheless when all the silly panic about it proves to be completely pointless similar to every other bloody variant at some point even the guardian might lose interest in screaming about the next scary variant.....
Luckily some proper scientists that do real work rather than pissing about with glorified copies of The Sims have been looking into this - and all the other variants in respect of T Cell response, and the news is looking pretty damned good.
https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1366770...
(François wasn't involved in the study from what I can tell, he's just very good at explaining these things)
Probably won't entirely preclude reinfection, but should mean that if one gets it again it will be no more than a sniffle. SARS2's journey to become another endemic Hcov continues.
Uggers said:
I'm just at a loss with all this. I posted a similar thing in the do you know covid antivaxxer thread, but no one answered it.
Vaccination was our way out. Do the old and vulnerable and if we still don't open up Grant Shapps would be manning the barricades with the rest of us. That was what was been said?
But the narrative seems to have shifted to vaccinate absolutely everyone. But it feels to me that to vaccinate 10s of millions for a tiny extra percent of effectiveness is diminishing returns if we have to administer 100s of millions of vaccines every year on a rolling basis if we factor in boosters and changes for new variants? The infrastructure and ongoing costs I don't even want to think about.
At what point do we say the costs out weigh the benefits? The NHS ran with this mantra for all patients it used to treat. Its not like perspective has been just lost, but denial it even existed.
We moaned about a train line costing 50billion over 10 years. We have already spent £400,000,000,000. And we seem prepared to throw £100s billions more at it.
If the vaccines are as good as the studies show it will cut deaths (from covid) by over 90% will it not or is that too simplistic? Is that still not good enough? This is amongst a background of no one dying from flu either.
I'm really trying to see why things are going the way they are but they make no sense to me at all.
Vaccine Passports.Vaccination was our way out. Do the old and vulnerable and if we still don't open up Grant Shapps would be manning the barricades with the rest of us. That was what was been said?
But the narrative seems to have shifted to vaccinate absolutely everyone. But it feels to me that to vaccinate 10s of millions for a tiny extra percent of effectiveness is diminishing returns if we have to administer 100s of millions of vaccines every year on a rolling basis if we factor in boosters and changes for new variants? The infrastructure and ongoing costs I don't even want to think about.
At what point do we say the costs out weigh the benefits? The NHS ran with this mantra for all patients it used to treat. Its not like perspective has been just lost, but denial it even existed.
We moaned about a train line costing 50billion over 10 years. We have already spent £400,000,000,000. And we seem prepared to throw £100s billions more at it.
If the vaccines are as good as the studies show it will cut deaths (from covid) by over 90% will it not or is that too simplistic? Is that still not good enough? This is amongst a background of no one dying from flu either.
I'm really trying to see why things are going the way they are but they make no sense to me at all.
I really, really think they are the end game.
Digital ID by the back door, enabling
Those above even get to decide what rights they are granting - access to internal travel? access to international travel? access to certain services? - because the sheeple apparently think those in power have the public's best interests at heart and trust them to give back the powers they have seized when it is 'safe' to do so.
The public seem super-keen to just hand the freedom that is their birthright away, as if they want to step into a cage and then give government the key to decide when they are let out again, and even go as far as supporting the bizarre narrative that only vaccinated people have the 'right' to travel or go into a shop.
Vaccine Passports have seemingly been slow to develop, though, but it seems summer is when they will arrive proper. I posted a video yesterday(?) showing Merkel stating 'three months to develop vaccine passports, and in time we think everyone will have a Digital ID'.
That is, IMO, why the restrictions are not being properly eased (if they ever will be
) until June? July? - it gives them time to develop, agree a common standard (see: the chief EU woman yesterday saying an EU system will be developed for all countries), and tie into the WHO/WEF/Bliar worldwide 'CommonPass' that is already being tested.This is, IMVHO, a turning point in history - where we, the plebs, either refuse to obey our leaders en masse and determine our own destiny, or we submit to the plans of an unelected 'elite' of very rich people outside/above Government, who think they know what is best for us and have the means and influence to make it happen.
That is why all news of demonstrations against restrictions is ignored by the 'mainstream media', why Big Tech and Governments are actively removing content online that questions 'the narrative' or provides evidence against it, and why the PsyOps warfare is ongoing through the BBC.
If we aren't aware there might be a resistance, perhaps we will think we are alone in our thoughts on the matter and be persuaded to believe those in power, rolling over to do what they want us to do? (See also: pubs and social gathering spaces being closed, and other group activities banned to remove opportunity for discussion.)
I know my tin foil hat is generous and cosy... but I just struggle to see how all these jigsaw pieces are laying on the table but hardly anyone is taking the time to see how they fit together, and some are actively pointing and laughing at those who do, saying 'tin foil nutjob!' and 'anti-vaxxer!!' because they refuse to believe some of the pieces even exist.
It's just.... bizarre.
johnboy1975 said:
I don't want lockdown. Another one would finish me I think.
Apparently the government doesn't want a lockdown. But its on its 3rd one now and by the end of this it's longest. This is despite vaccinating nearly a 1/3rd of the population.
I'm just struggling with trying to understand what's going on. The world seemed like a crazy place pre 2020 but I understood why it was the way it was.
The world doesn't make any sense to me anymore.
On the extending furlough things, I REALLY don't think this means that they are looking to extend this for ever more, it's just to give businesses some support whilst they get up to speed. It tapers off in July (employers pay 10%), through August (20%) before finishing in September. I expect things like Events, Live Music and Travel to take a bit longer to get started again than pubs and restaurants, so makes sense to give them some additional support.
With Texas and Mississippi (that would have been a bd without predictive text 
) announcing today that they are dropping all restrictions - including masks - the tide is definitely turning, so I don't think we'll be joining the Church of Anal Schwab just yet.
The numbers are dropping like a stone, the weather is getting better and the vaccines are looking pretty damned effective. Let's cheer up a bit and not get too despondent because Rishi wants to keep a few off the unemployment numbers until Autumn.
With Texas and Mississippi (that would have been a b
d without predictive text ) announcing today that they are dropping all restrictions - including masks - the tide is definitely turning, so I don't think we'll be joining the Church of Anal Schwab just yet. The numbers are dropping like a stone, the weather is getting better and the vaccines are looking pretty damned effective. Let's cheer up a bit and not get too despondent because Rishi wants to keep a few off the unemployment numbers until Autumn.
Uggers said:
johnboy1975 said:
I don't want lockdown. Another one would finish me I think.
Apparently the government doesn't want a lockdown. But its on its 3rd one now and by the end of this it's longest. This is despite vaccinating nearly a 1/3rd of the population.
I'm just struggling with trying to understand what's going on. The world seemed like a crazy place pre 2020 but I understood why it was the way it was.
The world doesn't make any sense to me anymore.
)RSTurboPaul nails it I think above. ID cards. Except this time the public are begging for them
So - who's "in" on it? Or rather - are they being swept along with public sentiment, or trying to lead public sentiment? If the latter, that suggests a cabal of ruthless power mad authoritarians....doubt they'd trust Matt Hancock or Grant Shapps with that sort of info. "Useful idiots" springs to mind.
Is it the WeF? (<< for Gadgetmac, who I note has gone quiet.....banned, or is the penny starting to drop?)The EU? UK? There's enough common ground in the (worldwide) response to suggest a collective approach, but far too much risk of a whistle blower IMO
Brave Fart said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
My feeling is that masks are a placebo. They remind everybody the pandemic is still in full swing and comfort the wet blankets enough to get them out the house.
Yes I think that's true but I also think the government's reasoning went something like this:"We've told people not to bother with masks; is that a wise thing to do?"
"Hmm, good point. What if they're really effective and we're the only country not mandating them?"
"Well yes, then we'd be seen as negligent. Sod it, make them mandatory - they probably do nothing but, hey, no big deal, right?"
Ditto with closing pubs, gyms, golf courses and much else. They know it makes naff all difference but they must been seen to be seen to do something and the Karens on social media will approve.
It was always obvious that SPI-B's slimy fingerprints are all over "face coverings".
"Specificity"
"Perceived threat"
"Responsibility to others"
"Positive messaging around actions"
"Tailoring"
"Social approval"
"Compulsion"
"Social disapproval"
"Reducing inequity"
It's pretty much a jackpot-winning line in behavioural science bulls
t bingo.Except it's not bulls
t, is it? It's the scientific application of the techniques that some of the most evil bds in history used by instinct.From way back on 22nd March 2020 c/o your oh so benevolent government.
Persuasion
2. Perceived threat: A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened
An open admission that its intention from the outset was to scare the bejasus out of the entire population of the UK. That's it: no further discussion needed.
And, oh boy, has their behavioural conditioning been successful.
I really, really think they are the end game.
Digital ID by the back door, enablingprisoner's individual's rights to be granted if they comply with the commands from those above ('yearly booster jabs will be needed': Matt Hancock) or removed at the touch of a (remote) button (see: China's social credit system, which I believe Fuhrer Schwab praises and bigwigs at Google have been to see in action).
Those above even get to decide what rights they are granting - access to internal travel? access to international travel? access to certain services? - because the sheeple apparently think those in power have the public's best interests at heart and trust them to give back the powers they have seized when it is 'safe' to do so.
The public seem super-keen to just hand the freedom that is their birthright away, as if they want to step into a cage and then give government the key to decide when they are let out again, and even go as far as supporting the bizarre narrative that only vaccinated people have the 'right' to travel or go into a shop.
Vaccine Passports have seemingly been slow to develop, though, but it seems summer is when they will arrive proper. I posted a video yesterday(?) showing Merkel stating 'three months to develop vaccine passports, and in time we think everyone will have a Digital ID'.
That is, IMO, why the restrictions are not being properly eased (if they ever will be ) until June? July? - it gives them time to develop, agree a common standard (see: the chief EU woman yesterday saying an EU system will be developed for all countries), and tie into the WHO/WEF/Bliar worldwide 'CommonPass' that is already being tested.
This is, IMVHO, a turning point in history - where we, the plebs, either refuse to obey our leaders en masse and determine our own destiny, or we submit to the plans of an unelected 'elite' of very rich people outside/above Government, who think they know what is best for us and have the means and influence to make it happen.
That is why all news of demonstrations against restrictions is ignored by the 'mainstream media', why Big Tech and Governments are actively removing content online that questions 'the narrative' or provides evidence against it, and why the PsyOps warfare is ongoing through the BBC.
If we aren't aware there might be a resistance, perhaps we will think we are alone in our thoughts on the matter and be persuaded to believe those in power, rolling over to do what they want us to do? (See also: pubs and social gathering spaces being closed, and other group activities banned to remove opportunity for discussion.)
I know my tin foil hat is generous and cosy... but I just struggle to see how all these jigsaw pieces are laying on the table but hardly anyone is taking the time to see how they fit together, and some are actively pointing and laughing at those who do, saying 'tin foil nutjob!' and 'anti-vaxxer!!' because they refuse to believe some of the pieces even exist.
It's just.... bizarre.I can still remember a conversation I had with my father in the late 1960s. We both had a keen interest in history and we got onto the subject of the inter war years.
He told me that a great many Jews, particularly in the professions and government jobs, never believed that what eventually befell them could possibly happen in an advanced civilised country like Germany. The landscape changed dramatically in 1933. A mere two years later the Nuremberg Laws were enacted.
People need to wake up and smell the coffee. A steadfast unwillngness to give credence to what seems to be a bizarre/unimaginable series of measures can have very deleterious consequences.
I'll just leave this here.
"It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt."
An extract from 'Election of Lord Mayor of Dublin, speech before the Privy Council, July 10, 1790' - The Speeches of the Right Honorable John Philpot Curran,
Whether you believe in God or not the sentiment doesn't change one iota.
Persuasion
2. Perceived threat: A substantial number of people still do not feel sufficiently personally threatened
An open admission that its intention from the outset was to scare the bejasus out of the entire population of the UK. That's it: no further discussion needed.
And, oh boy, has their behavioural conditioning been successful.
RSTurboPaul said:
Uggers said:
I'm just at a loss with all this. I posted a similar thing in the do you know covid antivaxxer thread, but no one answered it.
Vaccination was our way out. Do the old and vulnerable and if we still don't open up Grant Shapps would be manning the barricades with the rest of us. That was what was been said?
But the narrative seems to have shifted to vaccinate absolutely everyone. But it feels to me that to vaccinate 10s of millions for a tiny extra percent of effectiveness is diminishing returns if we have to administer 100s of millions of vaccines every year on a rolling basis if we factor in boosters and changes for new variants? The infrastructure and ongoing costs I don't even want to think about.
At what point do we say the costs out weigh the benefits? The NHS ran with this mantra for all patients it used to treat. Its not like perspective has been just lost, but denial it even existed.
We moaned about a train line costing 50billion over 10 years. We have already spent £400,000,000,000. And we seem prepared to throw £100s billions more at it.
If the vaccines are as good as the studies show it will cut deaths (from covid) by over 90% will it not or is that too simplistic? Is that still not good enough? This is amongst a background of no one dying from flu either.
I'm really trying to see why things are going the way they are but they make no sense to me at all.
Vaccine Passports.Vaccination was our way out. Do the old and vulnerable and if we still don't open up Grant Shapps would be manning the barricades with the rest of us. That was what was been said?
But the narrative seems to have shifted to vaccinate absolutely everyone. But it feels to me that to vaccinate 10s of millions for a tiny extra percent of effectiveness is diminishing returns if we have to administer 100s of millions of vaccines every year on a rolling basis if we factor in boosters and changes for new variants? The infrastructure and ongoing costs I don't even want to think about.
At what point do we say the costs out weigh the benefits? The NHS ran with this mantra for all patients it used to treat. Its not like perspective has been just lost, but denial it even existed.
We moaned about a train line costing 50billion over 10 years. We have already spent £400,000,000,000. And we seem prepared to throw £100s billions more at it.
If the vaccines are as good as the studies show it will cut deaths (from covid) by over 90% will it not or is that too simplistic? Is that still not good enough? This is amongst a background of no one dying from flu either.
I'm really trying to see why things are going the way they are but they make no sense to me at all.
I really, really think they are the end game.
Digital ID by the back door, enabling
Those above even get to decide what rights they are granting - access to internal travel? access to international travel? access to certain services? - because the sheeple apparently think those in power have the public's best interests at heart and trust them to give back the powers they have seized when it is 'safe' to do so.
The public seem super-keen to just hand the freedom that is their birthright away, as if they want to step into a cage and then give government the key to decide when they are let out again, and even go as far as supporting the bizarre narrative that only vaccinated people have the 'right' to travel or go into a shop.
Vaccine Passports have seemingly been slow to develop, though, but it seems summer is when they will arrive proper. I posted a video yesterday(?) showing Merkel stating 'three months to develop vaccine passports, and in time we think everyone will have a Digital ID'.
That is, IMO, why the restrictions are not being properly eased (if they ever will be
) until June? July? - it gives them time to develop, agree a common standard (see: the chief EU woman yesterday saying an EU system will be developed for all countries), and tie into the WHO/WEF/Bliar worldwide 'CommonPass' that is already being tested.This is, IMVHO, a turning point in history - where we, the plebs, either refuse to obey our leaders en masse and determine our own destiny, or we submit to the plans of an unelected 'elite' of very rich people outside/above Government, who think they know what is best for us and have the means and influence to make it happen.
That is why all news of demonstrations against restrictions is ignored by the 'mainstream media', why Big Tech and Governments are actively removing content online that questions 'the narrative' or provides evidence against it, and why the PsyOps warfare is ongoing through the BBC.
If we aren't aware there might be a resistance, perhaps we will think we are alone in our thoughts on the matter and be persuaded to believe those in power, rolling over to do what they want us to do? (See also: pubs and social gathering spaces being closed, and other group activities banned to remove opportunity for discussion.)
I know my tin foil hat is generous and cosy... but I just struggle to see how all these jigsaw pieces are laying on the table but hardly anyone is taking the time to see how they fit together, and some are actively pointing and laughing at those who do, saying 'tin foil nutjob!' and 'anti-vaxxer!!' because they refuse to believe some of the pieces even exist.
It's just.... bizarre.
He told me that a great many Jews, particularly in the professions and government jobs, never believed that what eventually befell them could possibly happen in an advanced civilised country like Germany. The landscape changed dramatically in 1933. A mere two years later the Nuremberg Laws were enacted.
People need to wake up and smell the coffee. A steadfast unwillngness to give credence to what seems to be a bizarre/unimaginable series of measures can have very deleterious consequences.
I'll just leave this here.
"It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt."
An extract from 'Election of Lord Mayor of Dublin, speech before the Privy Council, July 10, 1790' - The Speeches of the Right Honorable John Philpot Curran,
Whether you believe in God or not the sentiment doesn't change one iota.
The mind-boggling stupidity of humans never cease to amaze me! We could literally eradicate the virus in around 8 weeks if everybody stays at home. This is as true now as it was a year ago.
But no, that's too simple. Let's carry on as normal and have this thing run rampant. Let's develop a vaccine which we can't possibly have done long-term health studies on.
Let's make this vaccine the way Rube Goldberg would - the mRNA vaccine. And when the Germans finds it's not as effective as we claim, we'll just say they're not very clever and they've done it wrong.
Let's ignore China, who not only released the virus, but developed a vaccine properly (attenuated virus). China continue to take away human rights by doing anal swabs. It's another form of control.
Let's not even talk about the high mutation rate of the virus which will mean that more vaccines will need to be developed.
Again, none of this would have happened if we all stayed at home for 8 weeks.
But no, that's too simple. Let's carry on as normal and have this thing run rampant. Let's develop a vaccine which we can't possibly have done long-term health studies on.
Let's make this vaccine the way Rube Goldberg would - the mRNA vaccine. And when the Germans finds it's not as effective as we claim, we'll just say they're not very clever and they've done it wrong.
Let's ignore China, who not only released the virus, but developed a vaccine properly (attenuated virus). China continue to take away human rights by doing anal swabs. It's another form of control.
Let's not even talk about the high mutation rate of the virus which will mean that more vaccines will need to be developed.
Again, none of this would have happened if we all stayed at home for 8 weeks.
bodhi said:
On the extending furlough things, I REALLY don't think this means that they are looking to extend this for ever more, it's just to give businesses some support whilst they get up to speed. It tapers off in July (employers pay 10%), through August (20%) before finishing in September. I expect things like Events, Live Music and Travel to take a bit longer to get started again than pubs and restaurants, so makes sense to give them some additional support.
With Texas and Mississippi (that would have been a bd without predictive text ) announcing today that they are dropping all restrictions - including masks - the tide is definitely turning, so I don't think we'll be joining the Church of Anal Schwab just yet.
The numbers are dropping like a stone, the weather is getting better and the vaccines are looking pretty damned effective. Let's cheer up a bit and not get too despondent because Rishi wants to keep a few off the unemployment numbers until Autumn.
I'd like to think that, too. However, the unease keeps growing. I know I've quoted bits of this before (as have others), but it remains pertinent.With Texas and Mississippi (that would have been a b
d without predictive text ) announcing today that they are dropping all restrictions - including masks - the tide is definitely turning, so I don't think we'll be joining the Church of Anal Schwab just yet. The numbers are dropping like a stone, the weather is getting better and the vaccines are looking pretty damned effective. Let's cheer up a bit and not get too despondent because Rishi wants to keep a few off the unemployment numbers until Autumn.
They Thought They Were Free said:
"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security.
"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.
"The dictatorship, and the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting. It provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway.
Most of us did not want to think about fundamental things and never had. There was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about—we were decent people—and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?
Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.
Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.
Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice—‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have. And everyone counts on that might.
"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty.
In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.
"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you.
Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed.
"Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven’t done (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). You remember those early meetings of your department in the university when, if one had stood, others would have stood, perhaps, but no one stood. A small matter, a matter of hiring this man or that, and you hired this one rather than that. You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.
https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.htm..."This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.
"The dictatorship, and the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting. It provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway.
Most of us did not want to think about fundamental things and never had. There was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about—we were decent people—and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?
Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.
Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.
Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice—‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have. And everyone counts on that might.
"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty.
In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.
"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you.
Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed.
"Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven’t done (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). You remember those early meetings of your department in the university when, if one had stood, others would have stood, perhaps, but no one stood. A small matter, a matter of hiring this man or that, and you hired this one rather than that. You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.
To be honest, I am becoming of the opinion that we should have pushed back after the first "three weeks to flatten the curve" or the mandating of masks in summer last year. Look how much ground has been conceded since then... and it is being lost, little by little, every day. The vaccine was supposed to be our get-out. Even it that was the government hope, they have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, leaving us dawdling behind the world in restarting the economy. They are not fit for office - not just the government, but even the smallest subsection of a remote county seat is too much power for these clowns.
Sensei Rob said:
The mind-boggling stupidity of humans never cease to amaze me! We could literally eradicate the virus in around 8 weeks if everybody stays at home. This is as true now as it was a year ago.
But no, that's too simple. Let's carry on as normal and have this thing run rampant. Let's develop a vaccine which we can't possibly have done long-term health studies on.
Let's make this vaccine the way Rube Goldberg would - the mRNA vaccine. And when the Germans finds it's not as effective as we claim, we'll just say they're not very clever and they've done it wrong.
Let's ignore China, who not only released the virus, but developed a vaccine properly (attenuated virus). China continue to take away human rights by doing anal swabs. It's another form of control.
Let's not even talk about the high mutation rate of the virus which will mean that more vaccines will need to be developed.
Again, none of this would have happened if we all stayed at home for 8 weeks.
Do we sit at home in the dark with no food for those 8 weeks? No police on the street? No NHS running? No public transport etc etc.But no, that's too simple. Let's carry on as normal and have this thing run rampant. Let's develop a vaccine which we can't possibly have done long-term health studies on.
Let's make this vaccine the way Rube Goldberg would - the mRNA vaccine. And when the Germans finds it's not as effective as we claim, we'll just say they're not very clever and they've done it wrong.
Let's ignore China, who not only released the virus, but developed a vaccine properly (attenuated virus). China continue to take away human rights by doing anal swabs. It's another form of control.
Let's not even talk about the high mutation rate of the virus which will mean that more vaccines will need to be developed.
Again, none of this would have happened if we all stayed at home for 8 weeks.
"Stay at home for 8 weeks" is a stupid idea. As everyone can't stay at home.
Great quote MIkeT.
This is pertinent to the last bit, and has been linked to before in this thread in relation to government (in)action
The 4 stage strategy. From our point of view this time
https://youtu.be/nSXIetP5iak
This is pertinent to the last bit, and has been linked to before in this thread in relation to government (in)action
The 4 stage strategy. From our point of view this time
https://youtu.be/nSXIetP5iak
said:
"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty.
In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.
"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you.
Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed.
Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven’t done (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). You remember those early meetings of your department in the university when, if one had stood, others would have stood, perhaps, but no one stood. A small matter, a matter of hiring this man or that, and you hired this one rather than that. You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.
In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.
"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you.
Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed.
Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven’t done (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). You remember those early meetings of your department in the university when, if one had stood, others would have stood, perhaps, but no one stood. A small matter, a matter of hiring this man or that, and you hired this one rather than that. You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.
I'll pick up on 2 parts of that Rob
Not credibly possible
Sensei Rob said:
The mind-boggling stupidity of humans never cease to amaze me! We could literally eradicate the virus in around 8 weeks if everybody stays at home. This is as true now as it was a year ago.
The whole world? Not credibly possible Sensei Rob said:
Let's ignore China, who not only released the virus, but developed a vaccine properly (attenuated virus). China continue to take away human rights by doing anal swabs. It's another form of control.
Talk of hundreds of thousands of Chinese pensioners not claiming their pension early doors (Jan/Feb). Also smoke from Chinese cremations causing smog. Not sure of the source, or if its been debunked by one of our fact checking sites (probably) - but that would be more in keeping with a population of 1.3b, rather than the 3,000 or so the CCP claimGassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff