CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 10)
Discussion
johnboy1975 said:
Uggers said:
johnboy1975 said:
I don't want lockdown. Another one would finish me I think.
Apparently the government doesn't want a lockdown. But its on its 3rd one now and by the end of this it's longest. This is despite vaccinating nearly a 1/3rd of the population.
I'm just struggling with trying to understand what's going on. The world seemed like a crazy place pre 2020 but I understood why it was the way it was.
The world doesn't make any sense to me anymore.
)RSTurboPaul nails it I think above. ID cards. Except this time the public are begging for them
So - who's "in" on it? Or rather - are they being swept along with public sentiment, or trying to lead public sentiment? If the latter, that suggests a cabal of ruthless power mad authoritarians....doubt they'd trust Matt Hancock or Grant Shapps with that sort of info. "Useful idiots" springs to mind.
Is it the WeF? (<< for Gadgetmac, who I note has gone quiet.....banned, or is the penny starting to drop?)The EU? UK? There's enough common ground in the (worldwide) response to suggest a collective approach, but far too much risk of a whistle blower IMO
Zoobeef said:
Sensei Rob said:
The mind-boggling stupidity of humans never cease to amaze me! We could literally eradicate the virus in around 8 weeks if everybody stays at home. This is as true now as it was a year ago.
But no, that's too simple. Let's carry on as normal and have this thing run rampant. Let's develop a vaccine which we can't possibly have done long-term health studies on.
Let's make this vaccine the way Rube Goldberg would - the mRNA vaccine. And when the Germans finds it's not as effective as we claim, we'll just say they're not very clever and they've done it wrong.
Let's ignore China, who not only released the virus, but developed a vaccine properly (attenuated virus). China continue to take away human rights by doing anal swabs. It's another form of control.
Let's not even talk about the high mutation rate of the virus which will mean that more vaccines will need to be developed.
Again, none of this would have happened if we all stayed at home for 8 weeks.
Do we sit at home in the dark with no food for those 8 weeks? No police on the street? No NHS running? No public transport etc etc.But no, that's too simple. Let's carry on as normal and have this thing run rampant. Let's develop a vaccine which we can't possibly have done long-term health studies on.
Let's make this vaccine the way Rube Goldberg would - the mRNA vaccine. And when the Germans finds it's not as effective as we claim, we'll just say they're not very clever and they've done it wrong.
Let's ignore China, who not only released the virus, but developed a vaccine properly (attenuated virus). China continue to take away human rights by doing anal swabs. It's another form of control.
Let's not even talk about the high mutation rate of the virus which will mean that more vaccines will need to be developed.
Again, none of this would have happened if we all stayed at home for 8 weeks.
"Stay at home for 8 weeks" is a stupid idea. As everyone can't stay at home.
I suspect Sensei Rob is either trolling, or was one of those people with a garage full of bog roll and pasta back in March
Sensei Rob said:
The mind-boggling stupidity of humans never cease to amaze me! We could literally eradicate the virus in around 8 weeks if everybody stays at home. This is as true now as it was a year ago.
This post is an example of mind boggling stupidity if you think we can get everybody in the entire world to stay at home for 8 weeks. For a start we would all starve to death.survivalist said:
Zoobeef said:
Sensei Rob said:
The mind-boggling stupidity of humans never cease to amaze me! We could literally eradicate the virus in around 8 weeks if everybody stays at home. This is as true now as it was a year ago.
But no, that's too simple. Let's carry on as normal and have this thing run rampant. Let's develop a vaccine which we can't possibly have done long-term health studies on.
Let's make this vaccine the way Rube Goldberg would - the mRNA vaccine. And when the Germans finds it's not as effective as we claim, we'll just say they're not very clever and they've done it wrong.
Let's ignore China, who not only released the virus, but developed a vaccine properly (attenuated virus). China continue to take away human rights by doing anal swabs. It's another form of control.
Let's not even talk about the high mutation rate of the virus which will mean that more vaccines will need to be developed.
Again, none of this would have happened if we all stayed at home for 8 weeks.
Do we sit at home in the dark with no food for those 8 weeks? No police on the street? No NHS running? No public transport etc etc.But no, that's too simple. Let's carry on as normal and have this thing run rampant. Let's develop a vaccine which we can't possibly have done long-term health studies on.
Let's make this vaccine the way Rube Goldberg would - the mRNA vaccine. And when the Germans finds it's not as effective as we claim, we'll just say they're not very clever and they've done it wrong.
Let's ignore China, who not only released the virus, but developed a vaccine properly (attenuated virus). China continue to take away human rights by doing anal swabs. It's another form of control.
Let's not even talk about the high mutation rate of the virus which will mean that more vaccines will need to be developed.
Again, none of this would have happened if we all stayed at home for 8 weeks.
"Stay at home for 8 weeks" is a stupid idea. As everyone can't stay at home.
I suspect Sensei Rob is either trolling, or was one of those people with a garage full of bog roll and pasta back in March
Then the logistics of trying to get 8 weeks worth of food/supplies when all supermarkets and food retailers work on a JIT principle. It just would never happen.
But its interesting that some think its as simple as 'just stay at home'
If it was that simple I'd take it over a year of this, but a well seeded virus in a large population means we cannot just do a New Zealand.
MikeT66 said:
bodhi said:
On the extending furlough things, I REALLY don't think this means that they are looking to extend this for ever more, it's just to give businesses some support whilst they get up to speed. It tapers off in July (employers pay 10%), through August (20%) before finishing in September. I expect things like Events, Live Music and Travel to take a bit longer to get started again than pubs and restaurants, so makes sense to give them some additional support.
With Texas and Mississippi (that would have been a b
d without predictive text 
) announcing today that they are dropping all restrictions - including masks - the tide is definitely turning, so I don't think we'll be joining the Church of Anal Schwab just yet.
The numbers are dropping like a stone, the weather is getting better and the vaccines are looking pretty damned effective. Let's cheer up a bit and not get too despondent because Rishi wants to keep a few off the unemployment numbers until Autumn.
I'd like to think that, too. However, the unease keeps growing. I know I've quoted bits of this before (as have others), but it remains pertinent.With Texas and Mississippi (that would have been a b
d without predictive text ) announcing today that they are dropping all restrictions - including masks - the tide is definitely turning, so I don't think we'll be joining the Church of Anal Schwab just yet. The numbers are dropping like a stone, the weather is getting better and the vaccines are looking pretty damned effective. Let's cheer up a bit and not get too despondent because Rishi wants to keep a few off the unemployment numbers until Autumn.
They Thought They Were Free said:
"What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if the people could not understand it, it could not be released because of national security.
"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.
"The dictatorship, and the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting. It provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway.
Most of us did not want to think about fundamental things and never had. There was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about—we were decent people—and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?
Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.
Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.
Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice—‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have. And everyone counts on that might.
"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty.
In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.
"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you.
Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed.
"Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven’t done (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). You remember those early meetings of your department in the university when, if one had stood, others would have stood, perhaps, but no one stood. A small matter, a matter of hiring this man or that, and you hired this one rather than that. You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.
https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/511928.htm..."This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.
"The dictatorship, and the whole process of its coming into being, was above all diverting. It provided an excuse not to think for people who did not want to think anyway.
Most of us did not want to think about fundamental things and never had. There was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental things to think about—we were decent people—and kept us so busy with continuous changes and ‘crises’ and so fascinated, yes, fascinated, by the machinations of the ‘national enemies,’ without and within, that we had no time to think about these dreadful things that were growing, little by little, all around us. Unconsciously, I suppose, we were grateful. Who wants to think?
Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.
Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.
Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims, Principiis obsta and Finem respice—‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’ But one must foresee the end in order to resist, or even see, the beginnings. One must foresee the end clearly and certainly and how is this to be done, by ordinary men or even by extraordinary men? Things might have. And everyone counts on that might.
"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty.
In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.
"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you.
Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed.
"Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven’t done (for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). You remember those early meetings of your department in the university when, if one had stood, others would have stood, perhaps, but no one stood. A small matter, a matter of hiring this man or that, and you hired this one rather than that. You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.
To be honest, I am becoming of the opinion that we should have pushed back after the first "three weeks to flatten the curve" or the mandating of masks in summer last year. Look how much ground has been conceded since then... and it is being lost, little by little, every day. The vaccine was supposed to be our get-out. Even it that was the government hope, they have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, leaving us dawdling behind the world in restarting the economy. They are not fit for office - not just the government, but even the smallest subsection of a remote county seat is too much power for these clowns.
I am getting really pissed off now by people talking about staying "safe"
Like Biker1, I ride motorcycles, have scuba dived, cycle to work on city roads, have been rock climbing, been a tourist at some properly dangerous places in my life as well.
Yet a girl at our office is off work on endless paid sick leave because she doesn't feel 'safe' coming into the office. Mid 30's, not overweight, no known health conditions.
Do people have a fking clue what safe actually means?? You have more chance of winning the lottery whilst crashing in a commercial airline than dying of COVID or probably even getting remotely ill from it at that age...
I fear that any activity may be banned now. If the country is shut down from a virus with a 99.x% survival rate, imagine what sports or activities could be shut down...
Like Biker1, I ride motorcycles, have scuba dived, cycle to work on city roads, have been rock climbing, been a tourist at some properly dangerous places in my life as well.
Yet a girl at our office is off work on endless paid sick leave because she doesn't feel 'safe' coming into the office. Mid 30's, not overweight, no known health conditions.
Do people have a f
king clue what safe actually means?? You have more chance of winning the lottery whilst crashing in a commercial airline than dying of COVID or probably even getting remotely ill from it at that age...I fear that any activity may be banned now. If the country is shut down from a virus with a 99.x% survival rate, imagine what sports or activities could be shut down...
Carrot said:
I am getting really pissed off now by people talking about staying "safe"
Like Biker1, I ride motorcycles, have scuba dived, cycle to work on city roads, have been rock climbing, been a tourist at some properly dangerous places in my life as well.
Yet a girl at our office is off work on endless paid sick leave because she doesn't feel 'safe' coming into the office. Mid 30's, not overweight, no known health conditions.
Do people have a fking clue what safe actually means?? You have more chance of winning the lottery whilst crashing in a commercial airline than dying of COVID or probably even getting remotely ill from it at that age...
I fear that any activity may be banned now. If the country is shut down from a virus with a 99.x% survival rate, imagine what sports or activities could be shut down...
And people will be shocked when they come for their hobby/passion/livelihood.Like Biker1, I ride motorcycles, have scuba dived, cycle to work on city roads, have been rock climbing, been a tourist at some properly dangerous places in my life as well.
Yet a girl at our office is off work on endless paid sick leave because she doesn't feel 'safe' coming into the office. Mid 30's, not overweight, no known health conditions.
Do people have a f
king clue what safe actually means?? You have more chance of winning the lottery whilst crashing in a commercial airline than dying of COVID or probably even getting remotely ill from it at that age...I fear that any activity may be banned now. If the country is shut down from a virus with a 99.x% survival rate, imagine what sports or activities could be shut down...
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
danllama said:
Yep. Been saying this for months. They don't want this to be over.
Prepare to eat humble pie.I predict you are one of those posters that will skulk off with your tail between your legs over the coming months. Basically, you're wrong and you know it.
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
danllama said:
Yep. Been saying this for months. They don't want this to be over.
Prepare to eat humble pie.I predict you are one of those posters that will skulk off with your tail between your legs over the coming months. Basically, you're wrong and you know it.
I would love to be wrong obviously. Fingers crossed for normal by July
Edited by danllama on Wednesday 3rd March 07:55
danllama said:
ruprechtmonkeyboy said:
danllama said:
Yep. Been saying this for months. They don't want this to be over.
Prepare to eat humble pie.I predict you are one of those posters that will skulk off with your tail between your legs over the coming months. Basically, you're wrong and you know it.
I would love to be wrong obviously. Fingers crossed for normal by July
Edited by danllama on Wednesday 3rd March 07:55
MikeT66 said:
I can't tell you how much I hope and pray you are right. However wrong I am reading this situation, and admitting as such online that I was wrong and fooled (as I will do if true) it would be nothing compared to the shame and despair of being right.
Probably a lot of us willing to eat humble pie as long as we return to pre-2020 normal.Lots of discussions about masks again I see.
This may help....
So, what are the benefits to getting primary schoolchildren to wear masks?For one, whatever little degree of transmission is occurring in these age groups could be limited. It could also help normalise the practice – young children wearing masks may make their families more likely to accept masks, said Susan Michie
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/mar/02/...
Susan Michie, for those who don’t know, is one of Sage’s behavioural psychologists, and a communist.
This may help....
So, what are the benefits to getting primary schoolchildren to wear masks?For one, whatever little degree of transmission is occurring in these age groups could be limited. It could also help normalise the practice – young children wearing masks may make their families more likely to accept masks, said Susan Michie
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/mar/02/...
Susan Michie, for those who don’t know, is one of Sage’s behavioural psychologists, and a communist.
garyhun said:
MikeT66 said:
I can't tell you how much I hope and pray you are right. However wrong I am reading this situation, and admitting as such online that I was wrong and fooled (as I will do if true) it would be nothing compared to the shame and despair of being right.
Probably a lot of us willing to eat humble pie as long as we return to pre-2020 normal.Boringvolvodriver said:
garyhun said:
MikeT66 said:
I can't tell you how much I hope and pray you are right. However wrong I am reading this situation, and admitting as such online that I was wrong and fooled (as I will do if true) it would be nothing compared to the shame and despair of being right.
Probably a lot of us willing to eat humble pie as long as we return to pre-2020 normal.Sensei Rob said:
The mind-boggling stupidity of humans never cease to amaze me! We could literally eradicate the virus in around 8 weeks if everybody stays at home. This is as true now as it was a year ago.
But no, that's too simple. Let's carry on as normal and have this thing run rampant. Let's develop a vaccine which we can't possibly have done long-term health studies on.
Let's make this vaccine the way Rube Goldberg would - the mRNA vaccine. And when the Germans finds it's not as effective as we claim, we'll just say they're not very clever and they've done it wrong.
Let's ignore China, who not only released the virus, but developed a vaccine properly (attenuated virus). China continue to take away human rights by doing anal swabs. It's another form of control.
Let's not even talk about the high mutation rate of the virus which will mean that more vaccines will need to be developed.
Again, none of this would have happened if we all stayed at home for 8 weeks.
This is possibly the dumbest, most ill informed post ive ever read on here.But no, that's too simple. Let's carry on as normal and have this thing run rampant. Let's develop a vaccine which we can't possibly have done long-term health studies on.
Let's make this vaccine the way Rube Goldberg would - the mRNA vaccine. And when the Germans finds it's not as effective as we claim, we'll just say they're not very clever and they've done it wrong.
Let's ignore China, who not only released the virus, but developed a vaccine properly (attenuated virus). China continue to take away human rights by doing anal swabs. It's another form of control.
Let's not even talk about the high mutation rate of the virus which will mean that more vaccines will need to be developed.
Again, none of this would have happened if we all stayed at home for 8 weeks.
Ho do you propose for everyone to stay at home for 8 weeks?
steveT350C said:
Lots of discussions about masks again I see.
This may help....
So, what are the benefits to getting primary schoolchildren to wear masks?For one, whatever little degree of transmission is occurring in these age groups could be limited. It could also help normalise the practice – young children wearing masks may make their families more likely to accept masks, said Susan Michie
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/mar/02/...
Susan Michie, for those who don’t know, is one of Sage’s behavioural psychologists, and a communist.
For years you are a mediocre scientist getting virtually no attention and ploughing on with life.This may help....
So, what are the benefits to getting primary schoolchildren to wear masks?For one, whatever little degree of transmission is occurring in these age groups could be limited. It could also help normalise the practice – young children wearing masks may make their families more likely to accept masks, said Susan Michie
https://www.theguardian.com/education/2021/mar/02/...
Susan Michie, for those who don’t know, is one of Sage’s behavioural psychologists, and a communist.
The next minute, you are a superstar and Karen's are hanging on your every word.
Who would want to give that up...
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