CV19 - Cure worse than the disease? (Vol 10)
Discussion
Uggers said:
TBF, the polls are probably right, when you think of what is going on in the country right now?
Maybe a few reasons:
Furloughed and you knew your job was gone, would you vote to unlock?
The WFHer who now saves £1000's in commuting costs and gains more quality time at home
A truck driver, driving on much less congested roads
A delivery driver getting all the overtime you want
An MP, and instead of doing visits/been in the HoC all day, dealing with people. You now get to press the Reply All button on email job done,
On benefits, and receiving the extra covid payments
A taxi driver with council contracts to pickup schoolkids and receiving 75% of the contract money to do nothing at all
Employed as IT for contact tracing or as covid marshalls
A company traditionally quiet over summer, but can furlough workers instead of have to pay them full wage
Your house value is rocketing because of the increased government support and SD holidays
Employed as coordinators for test centres.
You lived in a tourism area and was fed up with tourists visiting and wanting the area all to yourself
If you hate people in general, and hate seeing anyone enjoy life or see family.
Scared s
tless of everything that's reported in the media.
We are pumping 100's of billions of stimulus into the economy and unsurprisingly it's having a warped affect on what is considered normal and functioning. A worldwide pandemic where the queues for B&Q go round the block, but the test centres are empty.
Weirdly people like it when governments spend money we don't have. Until it goes like Greece or Venezuela when it runs out, then someone should sort it out, but not increase taxes or make cuts.
And this, no one with a secure public sector job wants it to end either. It’s a busman's holiday in reverse.Maybe a few reasons:
Furloughed and you knew your job was gone, would you vote to unlock?
The WFHer who now saves £1000's in commuting costs and gains more quality time at home
A truck driver, driving on much less congested roads
A delivery driver getting all the overtime you want
An MP, and instead of doing visits/been in the HoC all day, dealing with people. You now get to press the Reply All button on email job done,
On benefits, and receiving the extra covid payments
A taxi driver with council contracts to pickup schoolkids and receiving 75% of the contract money to do nothing at all
Employed as IT for contact tracing or as covid marshalls
A company traditionally quiet over summer, but can furlough workers instead of have to pay them full wage
Your house value is rocketing because of the increased government support and SD holidays
Employed as coordinators for test centres.
You lived in a tourism area and was fed up with tourists visiting and wanting the area all to yourself
If you hate people in general, and hate seeing anyone enjoy life or see family.
Scared s
tless of everything that's reported in the media.We are pumping 100's of billions of stimulus into the economy and unsurprisingly it's having a warped affect on what is considered normal and functioning. A worldwide pandemic where the queues for B&Q go round the block, but the test centres are empty.
Weirdly people like it when governments spend money we don't have. Until it goes like Greece or Venezuela when it runs out, then someone should sort it out, but not increase taxes or make cuts.
Twinfan said:
oyster said:
The NHS would have collapsed. The death toll would be nearer 250k, mostly younger than those you propose isolating.
And PS - how the hell can you actually isolate people anyway?
If the vulnerable are isolated, how would the NHS collapse?And PS - how the hell can you actually isolate people anyway?
You isolate people by identifying the most vulnerable (top 4 groups of the vaccine list perhaps?) and tell them to shield if they want to/can. Provide furlough if they're working. If they then choose to shield, prioritise them for home food deliveries and ensure they have extra support to provide them with medications and any medical care they need. Once vaccinated with both doses, extra support is removed.
It's more difficult than telling everyone to stay at home, but it's not impossible and it would have had far less cost to the rest of the population.
If infections were at 1m a day as was suggested a few posts earlier, then even if the over 70s/80s were isolated, the hospital admissions would be horrendous. Tens of thousands would not receive oxygen. Many tens of thousands would die - and these would be 50/60 yr olds.
It’s all a bit of a moot point anyway as no one can actually suggest HOW you can isolate the vulnerable? How do you feed them? Care for them? Treat them? Etc.
Uggers said:
redrabbit said:
I'd guess at least 40%, based on observing significant reduction in oldies wearing masks in the market last Saturday and again today. Seemed to be more marked than in other age groups, although there's less compliance across the board. My own parents (both over 80) love to follow rules and are appalled that most of their mates have decided they are all out and about now they're jabbed.
All very anecdotal and limited observation of course, but no surprise really. And very telling that the very group we're all supposed to making sacrifices to protect seem to have decided they're off the leash now they are 'safe'. On that basis, I also think 'good on them'. They didn't all demand en masse to be protected - the Govt decided that for them.
I think it's good on the whole too, unfortunately there will be a significant number who now despite having significantly less chance of catching it. And a massively improved chances of surviving it after vaccination, won't be satisfied. All very anecdotal and limited observation of course, but no surprise really. And very telling that the very group we're all supposed to making sacrifices to protect seem to have decided they're off the leash now they are 'safe'. On that basis, I also think 'good on them'. They didn't all demand en masse to be protected - the Govt decided that for them.
So will turn on the same section of society who sacrificed or lost so much so far to then get jabbed and fast, so Raymond and Dorothy can get on their Mediterranean cruise this year.
Uncle John said:
Just popping in to say hi.
I had to take a step back from this thread as I was slowly immolating.
Anyhow, figures with Covid in my area today per 100k, 44. So 0.04%......
Forty forking Four people! Highest in the whole area of the country - 90. When I was all over it 7,8, 900 people was standard, easy.
How they cannot let us get on with it now I’ll never know.
Welcome back!I had to take a step back from this thread as I was slowly immolating.
Anyhow, figures with Covid in my area today per 100k, 44. So 0.04%......
Forty forking Four people! Highest in the whole area of the country - 90. When I was all over it 7,8, 900 people was standard, easy.
How they cannot let us get on with it now I’ll never know.
Remember the government will go with facts and figures against certain criteria.
They just won't or can't tell us what that criteria is.......
Elysium said:
I have been registered with yougov for months.
I received an initial poll relating to lockdown, which I answered honestly. I have not received another since. I do not remotely trust their methodology. It is bent.
I get requests to answer their polls everyday. I’m not in the majority when it comes to questions about continuing lockdowns. I received an initial poll relating to lockdown, which I answered honestly. I have not received another since. I do not remotely trust their methodology. It is bent.
birdcage said:
There is no chance that hospitals will now become overwhelmed therefore all bets should be off and life should return to normal.
Thats it
Hold your horses. Thats it
Covid-19: Another new variant added to UK watch list https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56284155
Smollet said:
Hold your horses.
Covid-19: Another new variant added to UK watch list https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56284155
It's almost as if it happens all the time. Covid-19: Another new variant added to UK watch list https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-56284155
Speaking of variants, have the authorities caught up with the Brazilian one yet? Or are they still been thwarted by someone not filling out the sheet correctly?
oyster said:
It’s all a bit of a moot point anyway as no one can actually suggest HOW you can isolate the vulnerable? How do you feed them? Care for them? Treat them? Etc.
You isolate them by telling them to stay at home and get them to buy food online and have it delivered. If they get ill, you send a doctor round or you get them to hospital. Ensure anybody who enters the house is PPE'd.Simple enough.
oyster said:
There seems to be an assumption (incorrectly made by many here) that the large numbers of Covid patients in hospitals are largely represented by those who are most at risk of dying. That simply isn’t the case. With lockdown, and with case numbers peaking at 50/60k a day, we reached 40k in hospital (and this might be at/close to the NHS breaking point.
If infections were at 1m a day as was suggested a few posts earlier, then even if the over 70s/80s were isolated, the hospital admissions would be horrendous. Tens of thousands would not receive oxygen. Many tens of thousands would die - and these would be 50/60 yr olds.
It’s all a bit of a moot point anyway as no one can actually suggest HOW you can isolate the vulnerable? How do you feed them? Care for them? Treat them? Etc.
So how come per the governments own website shows roughly 225k over 65s admitted to hospital out of a total of circa 350k in England. The fact that the 18 -64 are all lumped together doesn’t help the analysis either. The stats show that greatest number of deaths occurred in older people.If infections were at 1m a day as was suggested a few posts earlier, then even if the over 70s/80s were isolated, the hospital admissions would be horrendous. Tens of thousands would not receive oxygen. Many tens of thousands would die - and these would be 50/60 yr olds.
It’s all a bit of a moot point anyway as no one can actually suggest HOW you can isolate the vulnerable? How do you feed them? Care for them? Treat them? Etc.
Twinfan said:
oyster said:
It’s all a bit of a moot point anyway as no one can actually suggest HOW you can isolate the vulnerable? How do you feed them? Care for them? Treat them? Etc.
You isolate them by telling them to stay at home and get them to buy food online and have it delivered. If they get ill, you send a doctor round or you get them to hospital. Ensure anybody who enters the house is PPE'd.Simple enough.
One of my neighbours was isolating most of last summer and between home deliveries and a few neighbours picking stuff up for him he was fine.
Our kids going back to school in September made no difference at all.
basherX said:
Uggers said:
TBF, the polls are probably right, when you think of what is going on in the country right now?
Maybe a few reasons:
Furloughed and you knew your job was gone, would you vote to unlock?
The WFHer who now saves £1000's in commuting costs and gains more quality time at home
A truck driver, driving on much less congested roads
A delivery driver getting all the overtime you want
An MP, and instead of doing visits/been in the HoC all day, dealing with people. You now get to press the Reply All button on email job done,
On benefits, and receiving the extra covid payments
A taxi driver with council contracts to pickup schoolkids and receiving 75% of the contract money to do nothing at all
Employed as IT for contact tracing or as covid marshalls
A company traditionally quiet over summer, but can furlough workers instead of have to pay them full wage
Your house value is rocketing because of the increased government support and SD holidays
Employed as coordinators for test centres.
You lived in a tourism area and was fed up with tourists visiting and wanting the area all to yourself
If you hate people in general, and hate seeing anyone enjoy life or see family.
Scared stless of everything that's reported in the media.
We are pumping 100's of billions of stimulus into the economy and unsurprisingly it's having a warped affect on what is considered normal and functioning. A worldwide pandemic where the queues for B&Q go round the block, but the test centres are empty.
Weirdly people like it when governments spend money we don't have. Until it goes like Greece or Venezuela when it runs out, then someone should sort it out, but not increase taxes or make cuts.
Agreed. And there’s now a vicious circle where continued restrictions are at least partly justified in government because they (are believed to) have support whilst that support is itself predicated on non-clinical factors. Maybe a few reasons:
Furloughed and you knew your job was gone, would you vote to unlock?
The WFHer who now saves £1000's in commuting costs and gains more quality time at home
A truck driver, driving on much less congested roads
A delivery driver getting all the overtime you want
An MP, and instead of doing visits/been in the HoC all day, dealing with people. You now get to press the Reply All button on email job done,
On benefits, and receiving the extra covid payments
A taxi driver with council contracts to pickup schoolkids and receiving 75% of the contract money to do nothing at all
Employed as IT for contact tracing or as covid marshalls
A company traditionally quiet over summer, but can furlough workers instead of have to pay them full wage
Your house value is rocketing because of the increased government support and SD holidays
Employed as coordinators for test centres.
You lived in a tourism area and was fed up with tourists visiting and wanting the area all to yourself
If you hate people in general, and hate seeing anyone enjoy life or see family.
Scared s
tless of everything that's reported in the media.We are pumping 100's of billions of stimulus into the economy and unsurprisingly it's having a warped affect on what is considered normal and functioning. A worldwide pandemic where the queues for B&Q go round the block, but the test centres are empty.
Weirdly people like it when governments spend money we don't have. Until it goes like Greece or Venezuela when it runs out, then someone should sort it out, but not increase taxes or make cuts.
That’s the elephant in the room and needs to be addressed. But before that can happen we need to address the wider support for lockdown head on rather than shrieking about government conspiracies.
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Yes, quite a lot easier than isolating everyone.
One of my neighbours was isolating most of last summer and between home deliveries and a few neighbours picking stuff up for him he was fine.
Our kids going back to school in September made no difference at all.
Don't be silly. As we know it is far better to lock up the entire country rather than those at risk..... Simple fact, as known by Our Govt... One of my neighbours was isolating most of last summer and between home deliveries and a few neighbours picking stuff up for him he was fine.
Our kids going back to school in September made no difference at all.
I mean, what kind of nonsense would it be to protect those at risk whilst everyone else continued on to keep the economy going, saving jobs etc..
Not sure if anyone remembers last year when the Great Barrington Declaration was made, one of the reasons it was panned was because it was funded by the AEIR, a libertarian think tank in the US? Well someone's taken the time to do the same exercise for the Jon Snow Memorandum.
https://twitter.com/Kevin_McKernan/status/13675399...
See if you can guess which ex Computer Software Salesman all roads lead back to....
https://twitter.com/Kevin_McKernan/status/13675399...
See if you can guess which ex Computer Software Salesman all roads lead back to....
Jasandjules said:
Don't be silly. As we know it is far better to lock up the entire country rather than those at risk..... Simple fact, as known by Our Govt...
I mean, what kind of nonsense would it be to protect those at risk whilst everyone else continued on to keep the economy going, saving jobs etc..
Oooh you swivel eyed anti-vax conspiracy nut who torches 5G masts you.I mean, what kind of nonsense would it be to protect those at risk whilst everyone else continued on to keep the economy going, saving jobs etc..
Jasandjules said:
JuanCarlosFandango said:
Yes, quite a lot easier than isolating everyone.
One of my neighbours was isolating most of last summer and between home deliveries and a few neighbours picking stuff up for him he was fine.
Our kids going back to school in September made no difference at all.
Don't be silly. As we know it is far better to lock up the entire country rather than those at risk..... Simple fact, as known by Our Govt... One of my neighbours was isolating most of last summer and between home deliveries and a few neighbours picking stuff up for him he was fine.
Our kids going back to school in September made no difference at all.
I mean, what kind of nonsense would it be to protect those at risk whilst everyone else continued on to keep the economy going, saving jobs etc..
Uggers said:
danllama said:
Is that it? A yougov poll?
That's a mandate for lockdowns? This hugely damaging exercise on our rights and lives?
I don't accept that as evidence of a majority supporting this farce.
I do appreciate you sharing the poll but that's not the conclusive evidence of a majority that the other bloke was telling us existed.
TBF, the polls are probably right, when you think of what is going on in the country right now?That's a mandate for lockdowns? This hugely damaging exercise on our rights and lives?
I don't accept that as evidence of a majority supporting this farce.
I do appreciate you sharing the poll but that's not the conclusive evidence of a majority that the other bloke was telling us existed.
Maybe a few reasons:
Furloughed and you knew your job was gone, would you vote to unlock?
The WFHer who now saves £1000's in commuting costs and gains more quality time at home
A truck driver, driving on much less congested roads
A delivery driver getting all the overtime you want
An MP, and instead of doing visits/been in the HoC all day, dealing with people. You now get to press the Reply All button on email job done,
On benefits, and receiving the extra covid payments
A taxi driver with council contracts to pickup schoolkids and receiving 75% of the contract money to do nothing at all
Employed as IT for contact tracing or as covid marshalls
A company traditionally quiet over summer, but can furlough workers instead of have to pay them full wage
Your house value is rocketing because of the increased government support and SD holidays
Employed as coordinators for test centres.
You lived in a tourism area and was fed up with tourists visiting and wanting the area all to yourself
If you hate people in general, and hate seeing anyone enjoy life or see family.
Scared s
tless of everything that's reported in the media.We are pumping 100's of billions of stimulus into the economy and unsurprisingly it's having a warped affect on what is considered normal and functioning. A worldwide pandemic where the queues for B&Q go round the block, but the test centres are empty.
Weirdly people like it when governments spend money we don't have. Until it goes like Greece or Venezuela when it runs out, then someone should sort it out, but not increase taxes or make cuts.
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