NO JAB NO JOB

[blade runner]

Government know they can’t legally mandate vaccination, so just sowing the seeds now so they can do it by proxy via employers, airlines and other private sector industries etc.

[abzmike]

A500leroy said:

Exactly, in normal times it takes 10 years to get drugs registered because of the cock up years ago doing it to quickly. The vaccine was approved within 10 months..

A drug is different from a vaccine. Thalidomide was never approved in the US due to doubts there about it - regulations were slack 70 (seventy) years ago...
As far as I am aware all of the vaccines in use have been approved for use worldwide. Testing and validation is being done at an unprecedented rate, and part of a huge global effort. However, you're not going to be convinced. If the global scienftific community and every goverment on the planet isn't good enough for you, then nothing her will be.

[bigee]

abzmike said:

A500leroy said:

Exactly, in normal times it takes 10 years to get drugs registered because of the cock up years ago doing it to quickly. The vaccine was approved within 10 months..

A drug is different from a vaccine. Thalidomide was never approved in the US due to doubts there about it - regulations were slack 70 (seventy) years ago...
As far as I am aware all of the vaccines in use have been approved for use worldwide. Testing and validation is being done at an unprecedented rate, and part of a huge global effort. However, you're not going to be convinced. If the global scienftific community and every goverment on the planet isn't good enough for you, then nothing her will be.

The vaccines in use here are only approved under emergency legislation, the trials do not actually finish till 2022 (? )

[Brave Fart]

If the virus mutates and we have a series of new variants, the vaccine(s) will need to be modified, or so we're told. So an employer that insists on its staff being vaccinated will need to ensure that each employee has had the latest vaccine, presumably. Or will "last year's" version suffice? And how will the employer verify each person's vaccine status? There is no official body that will confirm this, unlike, say, a DBS check.
Then there's the female employee who is planning a pregnancy. She may not wish to disclose that to her employer. And I imagine that other employees may have medical conditions which prevent vaccination. Are they to be forced to disclose their medical history to their employer?

I think that mandating a medical procedure for your employees will be a nightmare for employers, for reasons including those I've outlined. And after all, covid for those of working age is not especially dangerous. Employers don't routinely insist on vaccination for flu, or MMR, or meningitis, or anything else, as far as I know. Does covid really merit such an exception?

[V1nce Fox]

Brave Fart said:

If the virus mutates and we have a series of new variants, the vaccine(s) will need to be modified, or so we're told. So an employer that insists on its staff being vaccinated will need to ensure that each employee has had the latest vaccine, presumably. Or will "last year's" version suffice? And how will the employer verify each person's vaccine status? There is no official body that will confirm this, unlike, say, a DBS check.
Then there's the female employee who is planning a pregnancy. She may not wish to disclose that to her employer. And I imagine that other employees may have medical conditions which prevent vaccination. Are they to be forced to disclose their medical history to their employer?

I think that mandating a medical procedure for your employees will be a nightmare for employers, for reasons including those I've outlined. And after all, covid for those of working age is not especially dangerous. Employers don't routinely insist on vaccination for flu, or MMR, or meningitis, or anything else, as far as I know. Does covid really merit such an exception?

this raises an interesting point. i have a medical condition which is genuine, legitimate and long documented which would make it extremely risky for me to have a vaccine such as this. what am i supposed to do if my employer mandates it?

[Oakey]

If a female employee has already been vaccinated and is planning to get pregnant in the future, what exactly is it you think is going to happen?

[voyds9]

V1nce Fox said:

voyds9 said:

I've asked my professional body about this. They say my employers may require me to get the jab or lose my job.

I then asked if I would be required to see clients who hadn't had the jab. Yes I am required to see them as the PPE will be enough protection.

At that point my irony meter broke.

What do you do?

Optometrist

[V1nce Fox]

voyds9 said:

V1nce Fox said:

voyds9 said:

I've asked my professional body about this. They say my employers may require me to get the jab or lose my job.

I then asked if I would be required to see clients who hadn't had the jab. Yes I am required to see them as the PPE will be enough protection.

At that point my irony meter broke.

What do you do?

eyes and that? don't you wear a screen/shield anyway for that?

Optometrist

[oyster]

Ntv said:

deckster said:

rxe said:

Nope, not if they’ve been vaccinated.

If you are worried about Covid, get vaccinated. If you are vaccinated, then the impact of Covid is reduced to a snotty nose.

If you don’t want to get vaccinated, then you run the risk of getting serious Covid, which may or may not be material depending on your age and conditions.

Seems to me there is no issue. People who don’t want to get vaccinated have a small chance of getting seriously ill and dying. Their call. People who do get vaccinated need to stop fretting.

I'm bored of saying this. But It's Not About You.

Vaccination works at a societal level. We will get out of this by vaccinating society, not people. Ultimately being vaccinated is a social responsibility, like paying taxes and driving safely.

But those who refuse to see that will never understand.

I understand the logic, though there are two problems for this argument in respect of COVID ... first, this virus is harmless, or more or less harmless, for almost everyone. Which other virus do we have quasi mandated vaccinations against that is similarly harmless for the 95%+?

Second, a huge cost has been incurred and imposed on everyone for the protection of a tiny, almost all old, minority. I, and many many others, think that has been deeply unethical - for example closing schools to children, banning children from seeing their friends and so on. It won't be easily or quickly forgiven by many.

Perhaps the Government could recognise the above, move very quickly out of lockdown and set out how it will, as far as it can, make good some of the damage they have done to so many lives? Perhaps that might lessen the resentment somewhat?

Good grief this again. The vast, overwhelming majority of the population are hugely in support of severe lockdown/restrictions. You and I might not agree with them, and we may not quickly forget. But we’re in the minority.

It might be that you live in an echo chamber. Most people I know, not all though but most, support and adhere to the restrictions. Including parents at my children’s school.

[abzmike]

bigee said:

The vaccines in use here are only approved under emergency legislation, the trials do not actually finish till 2022 (? )

But isn't that the legislation you're referring to? Hasn't the same regulatory process been run through, albeit fast tracked?

[W124Bob]

Ntv said:

I regard the long covid "risk" as only slightly greater than the risk of being attacked by a deranged blue whale while walking to shops

[V1nce Fox]

Oakey said:

If a female employee has already been vaccinated and is planning to get pregnant in the future, what exactly is it you think is going to happen?

i'm a little patchy on the details but i think she has to do something with tadpoles.

[Ntv]

oyster said:

Ntv said:

deckster said:

rxe said:

Nope, not if they’ve been vaccinated.

If you are worried about Covid, get vaccinated. If you are vaccinated, then the impact of Covid is reduced to a snotty nose.

If you don’t want to get vaccinated, then you run the risk of getting serious Covid, which may or may not be material depending on your age and conditions.

Seems to me there is no issue. People who don’t want to get vaccinated have a small chance of getting seriously ill and dying. Their call. People who do get vaccinated need to stop fretting.

I'm bored of saying this. But It's Not About You.

Vaccination works at a societal level. We will get out of this by vaccinating society, not people. Ultimately being vaccinated is a social responsibility, like paying taxes and driving safely.

But those who refuse to see that will never understand.

I understand the logic, though there are two problems for this argument in respect of COVID ... first, this virus is harmless, or more or less harmless, for almost everyone. Which other virus do we have quasi mandated vaccinations against that is similarly harmless for the 95%+?

Second, a huge cost has been incurred and imposed on everyone for the protection of a tiny, almost all old, minority. I, and many many others, think that has been deeply unethical - for example closing schools to children, banning children from seeing their friends and so on. It won't be easily or quickly forgiven by many.

Perhaps the Government could recognise the above, move very quickly out of lockdown and set out how it will, as far as it can, make good some of the damage they have done to so many lives? Perhaps that might lessen the resentment somewhat?

Good grief this again. The vast, overwhelming majority of the population are hugely in support of severe lockdown/restrictions. You and I might not agree with them, and we may not quickly forget. But we’re in the minority.

It might be that you live in an echo chamber. Most people I know, not all though but most, support and adhere to the restrictions. Including parents at my children’s school.

IME most people to adhere to some of the restrictions - for example pretty much everyone wears a mask in shop. No one I know is having parties.

OTOH, most people I know are breaking some of the rules some of the time - usually seeing other families outdoors.

Public sentiment is fickle on all this, and the public say one thing and do another. Public sentiment can also - very obviously - be manipulated ... not least by furlough.

[Oakey]

V1nce Fox said:

i'm a little patchy on the details but i think she has to do something with tadpoles.

Do people who drink alcohol on a regular basis worry about the damage it's doing to their sperm and future offspring?

[Brave Fart]

Oakey said:

If a female employee has already been vaccinated and is planning to get pregnant in the future, what exactly is it you think is going to happen?

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm thinking of someone who has not had the vaccine. She may be pregnant and wishes to keep that confidential. Or she may be planning to become pregnant and would therefore prefer not to have the vaccine. An employer insisting on vaccination - and, presumably, demanding to know why you're declining - puts the employee in a very unfair position.

[Terminator X]

21TonyK said:

Terminator X said:

Vaccinated people won't / can't die....

TX.

You sure about that? Any evidence? I'd love to disprove my consultant.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-news-covid-vaccine-astrazeneca-lockdown-end-schools/

"Single-dose Johnson & Johnson vaccine 100pc effective at preventing Covid deaths and hospitalisations"

https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/0...

"The headline and text of this story were corrected on Feb 4 to specify that the Johnson & Johnson vaccine provided 100% protection against COVID-related hospitalization and death and 85% protection against severe COVID-19 disease. We apologize for the error."

TX.

[Sophisticated Sarah]

Well that’s fking mental.

Forcing a vaccine on everyone because of a virus that causes a sniffle at most in the majority of people but is dangerous for a minority with health issues and a few elderly who are nearing end of life.

Like others who are sensible, I’d rather see the effects of “long covid vaccine” before I or my kids get jabbed.

[V1nce Fox]

I do get the vibe of a desperate salesman off the government over this. It has the feeling of someone trying to hit a commission target.

[Sophisticated Sarah]

V1nce Fox said:

I do get the vibe of a desperate salesman off the government over this. It has the feeling of someone trying to hit a commission target.

A bit like “Al Harrington's Wacky Waving Inflatable Arm-Flailing Tubeman Emporium and Warehouse” on Family Guy.

[Terminator X]

tonyvid said:

It will be interesting to see where the "I'm not having the jab because I'm young" argument goes when the same people need a vaccine passport to get drunk for 2 weeks in Ayia Napa...

Do you honestly and seriously think that "kids" need to be jabbed even though there is pretty much no one that age who has died of Covid the world over why not jab them for flu too, also a killer afaik.

TX.