Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
JeffreyD said:
If NI joined the CU and SM what practical difference would there be?
If that's a question for me, I was referring to the whole UK staying in the CU and SM. That could have prevented many of the problems across the board that are being seen for trade.
That is based on my view that our new freedoms are largely either illusionary or we had them anyway - hence the arguments against staying in the CU and SM are fundamentally flawed. Brexiters of the cailbre of Davis and Digby Jones will argue otherwise of course, but they are proven dimwits now, aren't they?
DeepEnd said:
If that's a question for me, I was referring to the whole UK staying in the CU and SM.
That could have prevented many of the problems across the board that are being seen for trade.
That is based on my view that our new freedoms are largely either illusionary or we had them anyway - hence the arguments against staying in the CU and SM are fundamentally flawed. Brexiters of the cailbre of Davis and Digby Jones will argue otherwise of course, but they are proven dimwits now, aren't they?
It was a question in general - I can't see the point of the protocol when they could have just stayed in the CU and SM. Seems like the same outcome in all practical terms.That could have prevented many of the problems across the board that are being seen for trade.
That is based on my view that our new freedoms are largely either illusionary or we had them anyway - hence the arguments against staying in the CU and SM are fundamentally flawed. Brexiters of the cailbre of Davis and Digby Jones will argue otherwise of course, but they are proven dimwits now, aren't they?
What an absolute load of old pony this solution is.
jsf said:
I was referring to the start of the process, i thought that was clear in what i wrote.
When May agreed to the sequencing of the talks, which was not in line with article 50, and then further didn't push back on a separate Ireland system, the die was set.
That is where i was stating UK should have told the EU to f
k off and not let them politicise Ireland.
That point wasn’t obvious to me but I’ve no problem taking it on board.When May agreed to the sequencing of the talks, which was not in line with article 50, and then further didn't push back on a separate Ireland system, the die was set.
That is where i was stating UK should have told the EU to f
k off and not let them politicise Ireland.I know we’ll likely disagree on this but May made much more effort to protect the principle of a homogeneous UK than Boris. Boris has yet to properly acknowledge he opted for different status for NI. Both had to face the reality that a divergent brexit wasn’t doable without creating “special status” for NI.
I think some are in fantasy land territory if they think there was an achievable brexit deal that would allow complete autonomy for the uk, trade deal with the eu, and no internal border with NI. History has proven me out on that one and suggestions to the contrary fail instantly by that very simple measure. That said lots of fudge is likely to allow both sides to keep face.
JeffreyD said:
If NI joined the CU and SM what practical difference would there be?
How do we give you a lesson in the last 500 years of Irish history ? Once upon a time there was a dutch Prince called William ..
Anyway he came from Holland to Ireland take the English Scottish and Irish Crowns .. by force form some guy called James
One was Catholic and one was Protestant
They had a big battle where lots of French and German and fought the Irish Jacobites and English
Anyway they had a big ruck by a river
No one in Ireland has ever forgotten this even though it was in 1690
Yet no one in England remembers it because it was in 1690 let alone that William was the third in Scotland yet the second in England
There’s also some s
t about a bloke called Oliver ... no not Jamie Anyway I’m troubled now .... I need to lie down but I’ll never surrender
Hey ho
Let’s just say it’s complex
citizensm1th said:
Crackie said:
citizensm1th said:
Naaa not my brexit thanks. You lot won its up to you to make it a success.
What will you be doing in the meantime?citizensm1th said:
That's how politics work in this country that's why we have an opposition
It was a national referendum, what have party politics / opposition got to do with the fact that the UK chose to leave EU? national referendum or general election you always have winners and losers and in both cases the winners have to implement the policy they stood on the losers get to sit back and see if the winners were right.
hows that going for you winners so far?
Will you be sitting back..........of the classroom or the bus?
Edited by Crackie on Thursday 4th March 22:13
Earthdweller said:
How do we give you a lesson in the last 500 years of Irish history ?
Once upon a time there was a dutch Prince called William ..
Anyway he came from Holland to Ireland take the English Scottish and Irish Crowns .. by force form some guy called James
One was Catholic and one was Protestant
They had a big battle where lots of French and German and fought the Irish Jacobites and English
Anyway they had a big ruck by a river
No one in Ireland has ever forgotten this even though it was in 1690
Yet no one in England remembers it because it was in 1690 let alone that William was the third in Scotland yet the second in England
There’s also some st about a bloke called Oliver ... no not Jamie
Anyway I’m troubled now .... I need to lie down but I’ll never surrender
Hey ho
Let’s just say it’s complex
Oscar Wilde - The problem is the English can’t remember history, while the Irish can't forget itOnce upon a time there was a dutch Prince called William ..
Anyway he came from Holland to Ireland take the English Scottish and Irish Crowns .. by force form some guy called James
One was Catholic and one was Protestant
They had a big battle where lots of French and German and fought the Irish Jacobites and English
Anyway they had a big ruck by a river
No one in Ireland has ever forgotten this even though it was in 1690
Yet no one in England remembers it because it was in 1690 let alone that William was the third in Scotland yet the second in England
There’s also some s
t about a bloke called Oliver ... no not Jamie Anyway I’m troubled now .... I need to lie down but I’ll never surrender
Hey ho
Let’s just say it’s complex
But I much prefer Brendan Behan quotes.
Earthdweller said:
JeffreyD said:
If NI joined the CU and SM what practical difference would there be?
How do we give you a lesson in the last 500 years of Irish history ? Once upon a time there was a dutch Prince called William ..
Anyway he came from Holland to Ireland take the English Scottish and Irish Crowns .. by force form some guy called James
One was Catholic and one was Protestant
They had a big battle where lots of French and German and fought the Irish Jacobites and English
Anyway they had a big ruck by a river
No one in Ireland has ever forgotten this even though it was in 1690
Yet no one in England remembers it because it was in 1690 let alone that William was the third in Scotland yet the second in England
There’s also some s
t about a bloke called Oliver ... no not Jamie Anyway I’m troubled now .... I need to lie down but I’ll never surrender
Hey ho
Let’s just say it’s complex
No I’m meant it’s fecking complex .. and involves sky fairies .. and you know when sky fairies get involved your dealing with a whole new world of s
te No add this to an island where they have fairy forts and believe in little green men that live in them with mystical powers you can understand when someone says their sky fairy is better than yours
And you can’t upset the one in the field
However .. Ursula being a German and her commissioner being from the Baltic have no idea about the nuance of Irish fairy’s .. be they the sky or garden kind
There is a special kind of mental running through the Irish .,, they are great craic, will open their arms and homes and drink you under any table
But just don’t f
k with their fairies roger.mellie said:
I think some are in fantasy land territory if they think there was an achievable brexit deal that would allow complete autonomy for the uk, trade deal with the eu, and no internal border with NI. History has proven me out on that one and suggestions to the contrary fail instantly by that very simple measure. That said lots of fudge is likely to allow both sides to keep face.
Is there really enough fudge to cover this up though? History and the outcome has already proven the "magic ANPR border" dream to be false. Just as it always was. And patently obvious to many.
vulture1 said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56279525
Great news for UK companies able to trade tariff free with the US.
If I were Boris I'd be rubbing this right into Nicola Sturgeons face that leaving the EU has given a massive boost to Scotlands whisky industry.
5 more pages of bickering and nobody has picked up on this? Another source albeit from Wee Nippy's side of the border.Great news for UK companies able to trade tariff free with the US.
If I were Boris I'd be rubbing this right into Nicola Sturgeons face that leaving the EU has given a massive boost to Scotlands whisky industry.
https://www.grampianonline.co.uk/news/national/us-...
No doubt Rejoiners will have studiously avoided their eyes to try and keep the "nothing positive to see here" stance. Or else it will induce frothing about chicken or selling the NHS off or something.
Earthdweller said:
roger.mellie said:
Oscar Wilde - The problem is the English can’t remember history, while the Irish can't forget it
But I much prefer Brendan Behan quotes.
Other people have a nationality. The Irish and the Jews have a psychosis.But I much prefer Brendan Behan quotes.
Ain’t that the truth
One that captures the sort of irreverence I like “Ah, bless you, Sister, may all your sons be bishops”.
DeepEnd said:
Is there really enough fudge to cover this up though?
History and the outcome has already proven the "magic ANPR border" dream to be false. Just as it always was. And patently obvious to many.
No, fudge alone won’t solve the problems. I’m sure it’ll be used as always in NI politics and as always it may just result in can kicking rather than providing a permanent solution.History and the outcome has already proven the "magic ANPR border" dream to be false. Just as it always was. And patently obvious to many.
But if it creates breathing room it won’t be a bad thing.
At some point there’ll be all round acknowledgment that NI is no longer an equal member of the UK, the UK are the laggards in admitting that.
roger.mellie said:
At some point there’ll be all round acknowledgment that NI is no longer an equal member of the UK, the UK are the laggards in admitting that.
This is the core of the problem.Once this is accepted we can begin to find a solution. But if the English Tories need to be lied to keep up the illusion of sovereignty then it will never happen
citizensm1th said:
....
That's how politics work in this country that's why we have an opposition
No, it really isn't.That's how politics work in this country that's why we have an opposition
We have a vote on a democratic basis.
We ALL live by the result until the next time a vote is offered. We ALL have to make it work until then. We ALL have to live with it until then. (Well, short of emigrating).
It is the same if the party I vote for doesn't get in at a GE. There is precisely zero point blubbing from the sidelines saying "well you voted for them, you own it". We all at that point live under the same govt whether we voted for it or not.
And part of the reason for that is because we all did/did not do enough to convince like minded people of the error in their ways.
FiF said:
vulture1 said:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56279525
Great news for UK companies able to trade tariff free with the US.
If I were Boris I'd be rubbing this right into Nicola Sturgeons face that leaving the EU has given a massive boost to Scotlands whisky industry.
5 more pages of bickering and nobody has picked up on this? Another source albeit from Wee Nippy's side of the border.Great news for UK companies able to trade tariff free with the US.
If I were Boris I'd be rubbing this right into Nicola Sturgeons face that leaving the EU has given a massive boost to Scotlands whisky industry.
https://www.grampianonline.co.uk/news/national/us-...
No doubt Rejoiners will have studiously avoided their eyes to try and keep the "nothing positive to see here" stance. Or else it will induce frothing about chicken or selling the NHS off or something.
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