Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
rockin said:
jsf said:
rockin said:
jsf said:
Even the EU FOM has been modified regularly as the EU expanded, to help manage the process.
Examples?jsf said:
To think of this in black and white terms is not realistic or in touch with reality.
How come David Cameron was sent home with a flea in his ear?Why should i do your donkey work for you, you lazy arse.
blueg33 said:
DeepEnd said:
blueg33 said:
£50k take home pa, probably £80k pa gross. Nearly 3 x average salary.
How does this relate to Crank's anecdote then? 
DeepEnd said:
crankedup said:
Then why do they treat us like an enemy, vaccine rollout for example. Please explain.
The vaccine programme is a mess in the EU. But 21 million of the UK doses to date have come from the EU. How many have gone the other way? Yes ££ & contracts blah blah but the optics are what they are.
The EU want to look after their own population just like we do. It is a difficult topic, and throwing words like "enemy" around helps no one - other than further confirming where you are really coming from.
loafer123 said:
chrispmartha said:
loafer123 said:
They are our trading partners, our commercial rivals and our friends and neighbours, all at the same time.
They are currently treating us with some hostility and it remains to be seen whether that is a longer term problem or short term bitterness at our temerity.
Maybe so, what they aren’t is our Enemy.They are currently treating us with some hostility and it remains to be seen whether that is a longer term problem or short term bitterness at our temerity.
. The UK are hardly the hard done by party who were always offering the hand of friendship. Much of it (imho) is driven by campaigning fodder for the daily wail reader types but it’s obviously UK strategy to keep the relationship antagonistic. Why keep Frost there for example when it has been demonstrated that the likes of Barrow are better at smoothing out antagonistic problems?As anyone who’s read my posts knows, my view is that’s being done more for Tory electoral gain on the UK side, keeps the media happy and makes it hard for labour to find solid ground. The EU side is arguably about protecting the union and the purity of the four freedoms (no cherry picking).
At some point for the benefit of both EU and UK citizens, and also for businesses, hostilities are going to have to be smoothed out to sort what some like to call teething troubles.
crankedup said:
Now that most of the immigrants have gone home I would agree that trades are now again reasonably paid.
Except that they have been well paid for the 30 years I have been in the industry. When I was a student I used to labour on building sites, unskilled no trade just some youthful energy, I earned more than many of my school mates who went and got better regarded jobs.
During my time in the industry I have seen no evidence that qualified trades from the EU have depressed rates.
What I see now though is reduced volumes in construction because the reduction in the availability of trades is causing issues. That’s why we are moving investment and jobs out of the UK.
Reduced construction volumes will flow through to an increasing housing crisis, increasing costs result in increasing prices and less money available through s106 for community etc.
DeejRC said:
Why do ppl keep trying to claim FOM has been stopped? Or the seamless ability to work abroad in the EU? It hasn’t. There is a s
tload of work in the EU for Brits if they are qualified? fk it, if you are a vaguely qualified engineer ping me your CV.
I know British people who worked in Europe in the 1950s and 60s. The EU did not magically make this possible when it came along.tload of work in the EU for Brits if they are qualified? fk it, if you are a vaguely qualified engineer ping me your CV. Earthdweller said:
Then what do you have to offer the host nation that their own people don’t ?
It's not about me, as I'm alright jack.Our citizens have lost a right they had previously. Some used it.
They can't now.
The milk is spilt and I'm not crying about it. Just pointing out the facts of the matter and we've already established that you don't care so there's no need to discuss it really.
mybrainhurts said:
DeejRC said:
Why do ppl keep trying to claim FOM has been stopped? Or the seamless ability to work abroad in the EU? It hasn’t. There is a stload of work in the EU for Brits if they are qualified? fk it, if you are a vaguely qualified engineer ping me your CV.
I know British people who worked in Europe in the 1950s and 60s. The EU did not magically make this possible when it came along.tload of work in the EU for Brits if they are qualified? fk it, if you are a vaguely qualified engineer ping me your CV. blueg33 said:
£50k take home pa, probably £80k pa gross. Nearly 3 x average salary.
I’ve been in the construction industry for circa 25 years and have many friends and family that are in the trade. I know none that earn anywhere near what you suggest.As an example, the plasterer that skimmed my house was on a meterage rate approximately half what I was earning in my holidays while at uni in the late 90’s. I know lots of brickies on great lay rates when they can work but as they work is weather dependent the take home average isn’t that great.
The guys I know making big money are the subcontractors employing literally hundreds of “self employed” tradesmen.
roger.mellie said:
mybrainhurts said:
DeejRC said:
Why do ppl keep trying to claim FOM has been stopped? Or the seamless ability to work abroad in the EU? It hasn’t. There is a stload of work in the EU for Brits if they are qualified? fk it, if you are a vaguely qualified engineer ping me your CV.
I know British people who worked in Europe in the 1950s and 60s. The EU did not magically make this possible when it came along.tload of work in the EU for Brits if they are qualified? fk it, if you are a vaguely qualified engineer ping me your CV. mybrainhurts said:
Ok, but how did that work and how difficult was it to overcome rationing? I'll see if I can quiz my contacts, I don't remember them moaning about difficulties in getting jobs.
Staying out of FoM as it’s getting too circular and turning into a fight rather than a debate.But I’ll have a go on the relevance of the 50’s and 60’s experience as relevant to today
. The assumption that it’s possible to revert to a situation that predates everything one (not picking on you) likes to gripe about having changed since then e.g. joining the EU, FoM, greater political union, single market, and customs union, is ridiculous. It’s turning your back on progress and expecting to pick up where you left off. Reality is the world moved on and won’t let you do that. Make arguments based on moving forward from the current position rather than those based on 20-30 years before I was born (and I’m not young).barryrs said:
blueg33 said:
£50k take home pa, probably £80k pa gross. Nearly 3 x average salary.
I’ve been in the construction industry for circa 25 years and have many friends and family that are in the trade. I know none that earn anywhere near what you suggest.As an example, the plasterer that skimmed my house was on a meterage rate approximately half what I was earning in my holidays while at uni in the late 90’s. I know lots of brickies on great lay rates when they can work but as they work is weather dependent the take home average isn’t that great.
The guys I know making big money are the subcontractors employing literally hundreds of “self employed” tradesmen.
Typically for a skilled tradesman I think the gross is around £50k still nearly double the aversge uk salary. Sometimes we employ trades directly. A decent finishing foreman with a trade background will be on quite a bit more and site managers more again.
Obviously young people who are yet to build experience earn less, as in any other job.
blueg33 said:
barryrs said:
blueg33 said:
£50k take home pa, probably £80k pa gross. Nearly 3 x average salary.
I’ve been in the construction industry for circa 25 years and have many friends and family that are in the trade. I know none that earn anywhere near what you suggest.As an example, the plasterer that skimmed my house was on a meterage rate approximately half what I was earning in my holidays while at uni in the late 90’s. I know lots of brickies on great lay rates when they can work but as they work is weather dependent the take home average isn’t that great.
The guys I know making big money are the subcontractors employing literally hundreds of “self employed” tradesmen.
Typically for a skilled tradesman I think the gross is around £50k still nearly double the aversge uk salary. Sometimes we employ trades directly. A decent finishing foreman with a trade background will be on quite a bit more and site managers more again.
Obviously young people who are yet to build experience earn less, as in any other job.
I am aware of site managers on some jobs we are on being paid £380- £400 a day gross .
paul0843 said:
blueg33 said:
barryrs said:
blueg33 said:
£50k take home pa, probably £80k pa gross. Nearly 3 x average salary.
I’ve been in the construction industry for circa 25 years and have many friends and family that are in the trade. I know none that earn anywhere near what you suggest.As an example, the plasterer that skimmed my house was on a meterage rate approximately half what I was earning in my holidays while at uni in the late 90’s. I know lots of brickies on great lay rates when they can work but as they work is weather dependent the take home average isn’t that great.
The guys I know making big money are the subcontractors employing literally hundreds of “self employed” tradesmen.
Typically for a skilled tradesman I think the gross is around £50k still nearly double the aversge uk salary. Sometimes we employ trades directly. A decent finishing foreman with a trade background will be on quite a bit more and site managers more again.
Obviously young people who are yet to build experience earn less, as in any other job.
I am aware of site managers on some jobs we are on being paid £380- £400 a day gross .
crankedup said:
Exactly, if you have the skills required by the Nation you are applying to work within. It’s called a points based entry scheme or something like that, it amounts to the same outcome. It’s not a scheme of one in all in, as is the EU FOM nonsense.
It is a lot more difficult now though. A colleague of mine applied for an internal role at our Australian affiliate but was told that she couldn't be hired if there was any chance they could find someone locally. Someone else was told the same about the US office. I assume this sort of thing will start to happen across the EU too and this clearly limits opportunities.This is obviously true because you're celebrating the UK opportunities for EU nationals being restricted and clearly it is reciprocal.
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