Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
Digga said:
blueg33 said:
Nonsense though - to trade with anyone we have to comply with their rules. We do not and never will have total autonomy if we wish to do a single thing outside our borders. To think otherwise is deluded beyond belief.
Regulatory compliance is a long, long way from equivalent to being ruled by another power.blueg33 said:
Digga said:
blueg33 said:
Nonsense though - to trade with anyone we have to comply with their rules. We do not and never will have total autonomy if we wish to do a single thing outside our borders. To think otherwise is deluded beyond belief.
Regulatory compliance is a long, long way from equivalent to being ruled by another power.Oddly the same people complaining about the EU for years on here are still complaining about the EU, after we’ve left and are now “free”
If they were honest they’d admit that now being free from the EU hasn’t actually improved their lives one little bit.
As predicted it was their mindset and outlook that is/was the problem all along and not the EU.
If anyone’s enjoyment of life is in any way dictated by some political construct like the EU then they’re always going to be reactive and not in control and never going to be happy.
Sway said:
blueg33 said:
Nonsense though - to trade with anyone we have to comply with their rules. We do not and never will have total autonomy if we wish to do a single thing outside our borders. To think otherwise is deluded beyond belief.
External trade is a tiny fraction of our economy.Exports = 30% of our GDP
Imports = 32% of our GDP
So external trade is 62% of our GDP
(Source = World Bank)
blueg33 said:
Digga said:
blueg33 said:
Nonsense though - to trade with anyone we have to comply with their rules. We do not and never will have total autonomy if we wish to do a single thing outside our borders. To think otherwise is deluded beyond belief.
Regulatory compliance is a long, long way from equivalent to being ruled by another power.If they had no authority over us, then what on earth is it that Brussels and Strasbourg actually do? Surely you are not saying "nothing"?
How, for example, did they prevent France, Germany, Italy, Spain and Portugal from ordering their own AZ vaccines?
Rule, control, call it what you will, but don;t deny it, because it is a ridiculous stance.
blueg33 said:
Sway said:
blueg33 said:
Nonsense though - to trade with anyone we have to comply with their rules. We do not and never will have total autonomy if we wish to do a single thing outside our borders. To think otherwise is deluded beyond belief.
External trade is a tiny fraction of our economy.Exports = 30% of our GDP
Imports = 32% of our GDP
So external trade is 62% of our GDP
(Source = World Bank)
Now, how much of those figures is services, for which there's never been a single market and the majority is outside the EU?
No comment on the rest of my post?
Sway said:
Actually 26% and 28%. You can halve the first one for percentage linked to the EU nations.
Now, how much of those figures is services, for which there's never been a single market and the majority is outside the EU?
No comment on the rest of my post?
The remainder didnt need comment.Now, how much of those figures is services, for which there's never been a single market and the majority is outside the EU?
No comment on the rest of my post?
My figures include services, 43% of the export figure was to the EU
blueg33 said:
Sway said:
Actually 26% and 28%. You can halve the first one for percentage linked to the EU nations.
Now, how much of those figures is services, for which there's never been a single market and the majority is outside the EU?
No comment on the rest of my post?
The remainder didnt need comment.Now, how much of those figures is services, for which there's never been a single market and the majority is outside the EU?
No comment on the rest of my post?
My figures include services, 43% of the export figure was to the EU
Imports are clearly more important than exports - larger value, greater impact on purchasing power and living standards - and we have (as I predicted a few years ago) both reduced the duties and streamlined the process to remove back office friction.
Funny how your problems are worthy of comment, but real examples of benefits aren't.
Sway said:
blueg33 said:
Sway said:
Actually 26% and 28%. You can halve the first one for percentage linked to the EU nations.
Now, how much of those figures is services, for which there's never been a single market and the majority is outside the EU?
No comment on the rest of my post?
The remainder didnt need comment.Now, how much of those figures is services, for which there's never been a single market and the majority is outside the EU?
No comment on the rest of my post?
My figures include services, 43% of the export figure was to the EU
blueg33 said:
Ean218 said:
Both Leavers and Remainers were gambling, the status quo was not on the ticket.
Remain was the status quo. Veto then enabled control of the future. ie a framework was in place to enable us to manage the futureThe removal being part of the Lisbon Treaty, which was signed before the referendum vote and so we knew was absolutely guaranteed to happen?
blueg33 said:
Sway said:
blueg33 said:
Sway said:
Actually 26% and 28%. You can halve the first one for percentage linked to the EU nations.
Now, how much of those figures is services, for which there's never been a single market and the majority is outside the EU?
No comment on the rest of my post?
The remainder didnt need comment.Now, how much of those figures is services, for which there's never been a single market and the majority is outside the EU?
No comment on the rest of my post?
My figures include services, 43% of the export figure was to the EU
Services don't attract tariffs, and many service industries could not operate across the EU as there was no single market in services... And never has been.
Sway said:
I know your figure includes services - something that's pretty much irrelevant in the context of brexit...
Imports are clearly more important than exports - larger value, greater impact on purchasing power and living standards - and we have (as I predicted a few years ago) both reduced the duties and streamlined the process to remove back office friction.
Funny how your problems are worthy of comment, but real examples of benefits aren't.
Its good that some have upsideImports are clearly more important than exports - larger value, greater impact on purchasing power and living standards - and we have (as I predicted a few years ago) both reduced the duties and streamlined the process to remove back office friction.
Funny how your problems are worthy of comment, but real examples of benefits aren't.
The real test is whether the upsides are outweighing the downsides. I know that bad news is more newsworthy than good, but the bad news stories considerably outweigh the good news. I would expect leavers to be finding loads of examples, but in truth they are few.
blueg33 said:
You do realise that the Governments own paper post Brexit stated that we always had sovereignty?
Para 2.1 Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU
Yes, this has been done to death. The fact that we were able to leave the EU meant that we retained sovereignty. The issue was that to exercise that sovereignty we had to leave the EU first.Para 2.1 Parliament has remained sovereign throughout our membership of the EU
Guess what?
You're not seriously arguing that we weren't bound by EU Law are you?
blueg33 said:
Sway said:
I know your figure includes services - something that's pretty much irrelevant in the context of brexit...
Imports are clearly more important than exports - larger value, greater impact on purchasing power and living standards - and we have (as I predicted a few years ago) both reduced the duties and streamlined the process to remove back office friction.
Funny how your problems are worthy of comment, but real examples of benefits aren't.
Its good that some have upsideImports are clearly more important than exports - larger value, greater impact on purchasing power and living standards - and we have (as I predicted a few years ago) both reduced the duties and streamlined the process to remove back office friction.
Funny how your problems are worthy of comment, but real examples of benefits aren't.
The real test is whether the upsides are outweighing the downsides. I know that bad news is more newsworthy than good, but the bad news stories considerably outweigh the good news. I would expect leavers to be finding loads of examples, but in truth they are few.
Meanwhile, only a small fraction of EU/UK trade has been "caught out" by CoO rules and therefore negatively impacted by duties.
blueg33 said:
Ean218 said:
Both Leavers and Remainers were gambling, the status quo was not on the ticket.
Remain was the status quo. Veto then enabled control of the future. ie a framework was in place to enable us to manage the futureVoting to remain in the EU was not a vote for the situation as at 23/6/16 staying fixed and ever thus
A remain vote was to follow the path of greater integration and federalisation and to accept whatever changes came with that as we have seen with the marginalisation of the veto and QMV since 2016
Remain was NEVER a vote for the status quo
Sway said:
Every single import that's now under a reduced or simplified tariff is an upside.
Meanwhile, only a small fraction of EU/UK trade has been "caught out" by CoO rules and therefore negatively impacted by duties.
And those caught out the most appear to have been economic with the truth when it comes to true country of origin.Meanwhile, only a small fraction of EU/UK trade has been "caught out" by CoO rules and therefore negatively impacted by duties.
Sway said:
Actually 26% and 28%. You can halve the first one for percentage linked to the EU nations.
That isn't how those figures work though, the value of imports might be 26% of the total GDP, but it isn't adding 26% to GDP.In its simplest form, GDP is Personal Consumption + Private Investment + Government Expenditure + (Exports - Imports)
On the face of it imports and exports add 2% to our GDP, but they also add value in the other elements that make up the overall figure.
Using the figures like that 100% of the import or export is being counted as value-add, which is clearly bobbins.
paulrockliffe said:
Sway said:
Actually 26% and 28%. You can halve the first one for percentage linked to the EU nations.
That isn't how those figures work though, the value of imports might be 26% of the total GDP, but it isn't adding 26% to GDP.In its simplest form, GDP is Personal Consumption + Private Investment + Government Expenditure + (Exports - Imports)
On the face of it imports and exports add 2% to our GDP, but they also add value in the other elements that make up the overall figure.
Using the figures like that 100% of the import or export is being counted as value-add, which is clearly bobbins.
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