Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
Tuna said:
Sway said:
Which the EU get - hence they've backed down. If they genuinely thought they were in the right, they would not have done.
It's funny how all the shouty types who said the UK was in the wrong, and the EU would hand Boris his backside have gone strangely silent on this...Sway’s point is not actually true. They haven’t backed down. A cease fire in making NI a football (appropriate words) is more accurate.
Simple fact is many doubt the uk’s honest intent to implement the ni protocol and nowt has changed other than escalating it beyond its importance.
Meanwhile, as expected, business is getting on with it and already moving to exclude the uk’s relevance from NI politics regardless of what lies the politicians tell https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-574...
roger.mellie said:
Am I being included I that? Cos if I am I’d like to hear your point rather than hearing you shouting over the shoulder of someone else.
Nope, you're not included, so no need to take offense.For what it's worth the point is that a number of posters have spend a lot of time telling us the relative strengths of the EU, and what the UK *must* do in this situation. They appear to have been wrong.
roger.mellie said:
Meanwhile, as expected, business is getting on with it and already moving to exclude the uk’s relevance from NI politics regardless of what lies the politicians tell https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-574...
"By contrast Irish exports to GB were up almost 8% year-on-year to €4.1bn (£3.4bn); that may reflect the fact that the UK has still not imposed full import controls on EU goods."Unless there is movement on agri goods, once UK impose those checks and rules, Irish exports will take a significant hit. Is that something you want to happen?
jsf said:
I've hardly said anything about the NI situation.
You are wrong about the implementation of the NI Protocol, it's specifically written in a way to allow pragmatic solutions and to protect NI place within the UK IM and there is still plenty to be finalised to facilitate that, it will be an ongoing process and is legislated to be such.
This paragraph makes it crystal clear the EU has to play ball and this will be in constant review.
Having regard to Northern Ireland's integral place in the United Kingdom's internal market, the
Union and the United Kingdom shall use their best endeavours to facilitate the trade between
Northern Ireland and other parts of the United Kingdom, in accordance with applicable
legislation and taking into account their respective regulatory regimes as well as the
implementation thereof. The Joint Committee shall keep the application of this paragraph
under constant review and shall adopt appropriate recommendations with a view to avoiding
controls at the ports and airports of Northern Ireland to the extent possible.
I couldn’t be arsed looking up. Is that the command paper, the political declaration, or the actual protocol?You are wrong about the implementation of the NI Protocol, it's specifically written in a way to allow pragmatic solutions and to protect NI place within the UK IM and there is still plenty to be finalised to facilitate that, it will be an ongoing process and is legislated to be such.
This paragraph makes it crystal clear the EU has to play ball and this will be in constant review.
Having regard to Northern Ireland's integral place in the United Kingdom's internal market, the
Union and the United Kingdom shall use their best endeavours to facilitate the trade between
Northern Ireland and other parts of the United Kingdom, in accordance with applicable
legislation and taking into account their respective regulatory regimes as well as the
implementation thereof. The Joint Committee shall keep the application of this paragraph
under constant review and shall adopt appropriate recommendations with a view to avoiding
controls at the ports and airports of Northern Ireland to the extent possible.
Not that it matters, hence my lack of arsedness
. Both sides have admitted the way out is the JC. There’s an extra ingredient in the mix, some ni parties won’t accept whatever deal is done, amusingly they’re the pro brexit ones. I could understand May pandering to that vote because she needed the extra seats. Boris doesn’t, so my suspicion is he likes the antagonism.
roger.mellie said:
I couldn’t be arsed looking up. Is that the command paper, the political declaration, or the actual protocol?
Not that it matters, hence my lack of arsedness.
Both sides have admitted the way out is the JC. There’s an extra ingredient in the mix, some ni parties won’t accept whatever deal is done, amusingly they’re the pro brexit ones. I could understand May pandering to that vote because she needed the extra seats. Boris doesn’t, so my suspicion is he likes the antagonism.
You are sNot that it matters, hence my lack of arsedness
. Both sides have admitted the way out is the JC. There’s an extra ingredient in the mix, some ni parties won’t accept whatever deal is done, amusingly they’re the pro brexit ones. I could understand May pandering to that vote because she needed the extra seats. Boris doesn’t, so my suspicion is he likes the antagonism.
tting me! 
You are posting on here about this with such certainty, yet you haven't read the documents.
It's straight out of the NI Protocol (Article 6 Paragraph 2), the legal document you are arguing the toss about.
jsf said:
"By contrast Irish exports to GB were up almost 8% year-on-year to €4.1bn (£3.4bn); that may reflect the fact that the UK has still not imposed full import controls on EU goods."
Unless there is movement on agri goods, once UK impose those checks and rules, Irish exports will take a significant hit. Is that something you want to happen?
Absolutely not. But business will route around a problem long before the politicians admit there is one.Unless there is movement on agri goods, once UK impose those checks and rules, Irish exports will take a significant hit. Is that something you want to happen?
The long view is that the current brexit situation means more NI imports will be routed via the EU. The interesting thing is how many GB and EU companies will use NI as a base into both worlds. Whilst our politicians are running around complaining about the agreement our government funded enterprise investors are selling this as an advantage. As usual the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing when it comes to local government.
Tuna said:
Sway said:
Which the EU get - hence they've backed down. If they genuinely thought they were in the right, they would not have done.
It's funny how all the shouty types who said the UK was in the wrong, and the EU would hand Boris his backside have gone strangely silent on this...
So rather than the UK unilaterally imposing a 3 month delay as had been threatened. Frosty has now asked the EU for a 3 month delay. Yes the EU has completely capitulated.
roger.mellie said:
jsf said:
"By contrast Irish exports to GB were up almost 8% year-on-year to €4.1bn (£3.4bn); that may reflect the fact that the UK has still not imposed full import controls on EU goods."
Unless there is movement on agri goods, once UK impose those checks and rules, Irish exports will take a significant hit. Is that something you want to happen?
Absolutely not. But business will route around a problem long before the politicians admit there is one.Unless there is movement on agri goods, once UK impose those checks and rules, Irish exports will take a significant hit. Is that something you want to happen?
The long view is that the current brexit situation means more NI imports will be routed via the EU. The interesting thing is how many GB and EU companies will use NI as a base into both worlds. Whilst our politicians are running around complaining about the agreement our government funded enterprise investors are selling this as an advantage. As usual the left hand doesn’t know what the right hand is doing when it comes to local government.
The loss to GB producers of not being able to supply those goods to NI is a couple of orders of magnitude lesser than the loss to EU producers...
All whilst ignoring the actual NIP.
jsf said:
You are stting me!
You are posting on here about this with such certainty, yet you haven't read the documents.
It's straight out of the NI Protocol (Article 6 Paragraph 2), the legal document you are arguing the toss about.
I’m not, I’m evaluating the situation by on the ground reality rather than selective paragraphs that the uk have already admitted aren’t legally binding enough to represent their cause. Hence the “joint” declaration on your crap tasting English sausages. Interesting point, NI will now be able to export our crap sausages to both GB and EU. I’m not a fan of the Doherty ones Eastwood was on about but my family might kill me for saying that.tting me! You are posting on here about this with such certainty, yet you haven't read the documents.
It's straight out of the NI Protocol (Article 6 Paragraph 2), the legal document you are arguing the toss about.
roger.mellie said:
Am I being included I that? Cos if I am I’d like to hear your point rather than hearing you shouting over the shoulder of someone else.
Sway’s point is not actually true. They haven’t backed down. A cease fire in making NI a football (appropriate words) is more accurate.
Simple fact is many doubt the uk’s honest intent to implement the ni protocol and nowt has changed other than escalating it beyond its importance.
Meanwhile, as expected, business is getting on with it and already moving to exclude the uk’s relevance from NI politics regardless of what lies the politicians tell https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-574...
I’d find it very difficult to implement properly a policy that affected my domestic situation, imposed by an outside party for their own ends. If that means the UK isn’t taking the NI protocol seriously, I can live with that.Sway’s point is not actually true. They haven’t backed down. A cease fire in making NI a football (appropriate words) is more accurate.
Simple fact is many doubt the uk’s honest intent to implement the ni protocol and nowt has changed other than escalating it beyond its importance.
Meanwhile, as expected, business is getting on with it and already moving to exclude the uk’s relevance from NI politics regardless of what lies the politicians tell https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-574...
Maybe we should have negotiated a protocol involving Paris and Marseille or Munich and Frankfurt to counter it. Pointless crap the EU are using to divide and conquer.
roger.mellie said:
I’m not, I’m evaluating the situation by on the ground reality rather than selective paragraphs that the uk have already admitted aren’t legally binding enough to represent their cause. Hence the “joint” declaration on your crap tasting English sausages. Interesting point, NI will now be able to export our crap sausages to both GB and EU. I’m not a fan of the Doherty ones Eastwood was on about but my family might kill me for saying that.
It's a complete waste of time discussing this with you, if all you are doing is using your own take on things, rather than what is legally agreed, as the basis for the discussion. I'm out.jsf said:
It's a complete waste of time discussing this with you, if all you are doing is using your own take on things, rather than what is legally agreed, as the basis for the discussion. I'm out.
It’s not my take. It’s the UK government’s.I could refer you to the joint unilateral declaration. Amusing legal anomaly where the eu had to provide a response to the uk’s unilateral decision to make it legal.
Simple fact is arguing chapter and verse over the protocol ignores the hours and days of interpretation by more specialists than me and you who’ve worked out what the uk and eu actually signed rather that what they like to claim to have signed.
I know you’re the last person I need to tell to read a non uk news source.
jsf said:
You are stting me!
You are posting on here about this with such certainty, yet you haven't read the documents.
It's straight out of the NI Protocol (Article 6 Paragraph 2), the legal document you are arguing the toss about.
What an illuminating Sunday lunchtime read tting me! You are posting on here about this with such certainty, yet you haven't read the documents.
It's straight out of the NI Protocol (Article 6 Paragraph 2), the legal document you are arguing the toss about.
I think someone has destroyed their credibility
Sway said:
How will EU businesses 'route around' a problem that blocks all seed/fresh meat exports to GB?.
Many have reduced their dependence on UK sales. I don't claim to know the whole market, but I know that one of the largest fresh meat producers here in Belgium, who were delivering more than 50% of their production into the UK at the time of the Brexit vote, were delivering less than 5% of their production by the end of last year.You also need to bear in mind that the UK needs imported meat - at least in the short term - and that the ways things are going at the moment, UK meat production is more likely to decrease than increase.
sunbeam alpine said:
Many have reduced their dependence on UK sales. I don't claim to know the whole market, but I know that one of the largest fresh meat producers here in Belgium, who were delivering more than 50% of their production into the UK at the time of the Brexit vote, were delivering less than 5% of their production by the end of last year.
You also need to bear in mind that the UK needs imported meat - at least in the short term - and that the ways things are going at the moment, UK meat production is more likely to decrease than increase.
How have they reduced their dependence? Surely that's short hand for "We've lost 45% of our sales, so we're making a load of you redundant".You also need to bear in mind that the UK needs imported meat - at least in the short term - and that the ways things are going at the moment, UK meat production is more likely to decrease than increase.
paulrockliffe said:
sunbeam alpine said:
Many have reduced their dependence on UK sales. I don't claim to know the whole market, but I know that one of the largest fresh meat producers here in Belgium, who were delivering more than 50% of their production into the UK at the time of the Brexit vote, were delivering less than 5% of their production by the end of last year.
You also need to bear in mind that the UK needs imported meat - at least in the short term - and that the ways things are going at the moment, UK meat production is more likely to decrease than increase.
How have they reduced their dependence? Surely that's short hand for "We've lost 45% of our sales, so we're making a load of you redundant".You also need to bear in mind that the UK needs imported meat - at least in the short term - and that the ways things are going at the moment, UK meat production is more likely to decrease than increase.
sunbeam alpine said:
paulrockliffe said:
sunbeam alpine said:
Many have reduced their dependence on UK sales. I don't claim to know the whole market, but I know that one of the largest fresh meat producers here in Belgium, who were delivering more than 50% of their production into the UK at the time of the Brexit vote, were delivering less than 5% of their production by the end of last year.
You also need to bear in mind that the UK needs imported meat - at least in the short term - and that the ways things are going at the moment, UK meat production is more likely to decrease than increase.
How have they reduced their dependence? Surely that's short hand for "We've lost 45% of our sales, so we're making a load of you redundant".You also need to bear in mind that the UK needs imported meat - at least in the short term - and that the ways things are going at the moment, UK meat production is more likely to decrease than increase.
And outside of the EU. Astonishing
Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff