Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
crankedup5 said:
I also asked for numbers so thanks for the links. TBH I cannot see any bad news in those links especially as it’s the very early stage of trade with Australia. And of course we still trade with the EU Countries. What is not to like?
We aren't in any stage of the Australian trade deal as it's not been published yet. As it stands it's not a positive as it's not happened. blueg33 said:
crankedup5 said:
Do Companies like High St supermarkets upon contractor drivers / self employed or do they employ them on their books?
Dunno - a friend is CEO of one of the major supermarkets, I'll ask him (assuming he knows, clearly he doesnt look after the detail). As an aside, the CEO of Tesco used to live up the road from my parents house, I’m talking when we were kids. He used to send his driver over in his R.R. to pick up my kid sister who was great friends with the CEO’s daughter. Happy days .
Edited by crankedup5 on Friday 25th June 16:11
PeteinSQ said:
JagLover said:
Looks like another sector where workers will soon be paid a fair wage. More good news from Brexit 
There is actually some truth to this, but I guess the impact on the rest of the economy will be quite inflationary. There isn't a lump of Labour and there is a dynamic economy, that affects the labour market in turn, but it always seemed very counter-intuitive for many Economists to claim that FOM had a minimal impact on pay and lo and behold once it has gone we are seeing large scale pressure on pay in many sectors.
Of course lockdown plays a role as well and I can't really see the logic of having over a million workers sat on Furlough while other areas of the economy are crying out for workers.
crankedup5 said:
I also asked for numbers so thanks for the links. TBH I cannot see any bad news in those links especially as it’s the very early stage of trade with Australia. And of course we still trade with the EU Countries. What is not to like?
I think the UK is squandering it's opportunities. It's released from the constraints of EU trade negotiations, and it's still concentrating on food.The UK is only going to grow significantly if it looks to expand on its strength, not do the same old same old. It should be concentrating on services, which it already does well. The Aus deal, for example, gives a good opportunity to do a deal on minerals and mining related commodities in order to feed into UK engineering. Can also help support the UK chemical industry, which is going to be severely disadvantaged now its outside of REACH.
M.
JeffreyD said:
crankedup5 said:
I also asked for numbers so thanks for the links. TBH I cannot see any bad news in those links especially as it’s the very early stage of trade with Australia. And of course we still trade with the EU Countries. What is not to like?
We aren't in any stage of the Australian trade deal as it's not been published yet. As it stands it's not a positive as it's not happened. Mortarboard said:
crankedup5 said:
I also asked for numbers so thanks for the links. TBH I cannot see any bad news in those links especially as it’s the very early stage of trade with Australia. And of course we still trade with the EU Countries. What is not to like?
I think the UK is squandering it's opportunities. It's released from the constraints of EU trade negotiations, and it's still concentrating on food.The UK is only going to grow significantly if it looks to expand on its strength, not do the same old same old. It should be concentrating on services, which it already does well. The Aus deal, for example, gives a good opportunity to do a deal on minerals and mining related commodities in order to feed into UK engineering. Can also help support the UK chemical industry, which is going to be severely disadvantaged now its outside of REACH.
M.
crankedup5 said:
Why did Liz Truss announce the deal was done then? That is a reasonable indication of a deal is it not. Its been widely talked about over media sources so I cannot understand why you say ‘it’s not happened yet’ It’s done and dusted.
You tell me.Has anyone seen said deal out in the wild? Or are we being managed by leak and innuendo, like every other part of this government.
The only thing my version of Google finds is an announcement of an agreement in principle.
Which doesn't seem all that much to me.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-aust...
If there is a special Brexit bonus version of Google out there i wouldn't mind an invite to the party
crankedup5 said:
Seems to me that all makes good sense, our Government is certainly looking at new directions whilst reinforcing existing. However I disagree with your suggestion that he UK will be disadvantaged y being outside of REACH. We have always upheld high standards and do not require direction from the EU for that to continue"
I work in chemicals. Its a huge disadvantage. The cost of a reach registration (testing etc.) is approx. 800k sterling (been there, done that). Affects all movements of highly haz materials more than 1kg for the worst ones, 1000kg for less haz stuff.It simply makes a lot of stuff not worth it. And in chemicals, very often there isnt a substitute.
M.
JeffreyD said:
crankedup5 said:
Why did Liz Truss announce the deal was done then? That is a reasonable indication of a deal is it not. Its been widely talked about over media sources so I cannot understand why you say ‘it’s not happened yet’ It’s done and dusted.
You tell me.Has anyone seen said deal out in the wild? Or are we being managed by leak and innuendo, like every other part of this government.
The only thing my version of Google finds is an announcement of an agreement in principle.
Which doesn't seem all that much to me.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-aust...
If there is a special Brexit bonus version of Google out there i wouldn't mind an invite to the party
https://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/agreements/negotiati...
Mortarboard said:
crankedup5 said:
Seems to me that all makes good sense, our Government is certainly looking at new directions whilst reinforcing existing. However I disagree with your suggestion that he UK will be disadvantaged y being outside of REACH. We have always upheld high standards and do not require direction from the EU for that to continue"
I work in chemicals. Its a huge disadvantage. The cost of a reach registration (testing etc.) is approx. 800k sterling (been there, done that). Affects all movements of highly haz materials more than 1kg for the worst ones, 1000kg for less haz stuff.It simply makes a lot of stuff not worth it. And in chemicals, very often there isnt a substitute.
M.
JeffreyD said:
crankedup5 said:
Why did Liz Truss announce the deal was done then? That is a reasonable indication of a deal is it not. Its been widely talked about over media sources so I cannot understand why you say ‘it’s not happened yet’ It’s done and dusted.
You tell me.Has anyone seen said deal out in the wild? Or are we being managed by leak and innuendo, like every other part of this government.
The only thing my version of Google finds is an announcement of an agreement in principle.
Which doesn't seem all that much to me.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/uk-aust...
If there is a special Brexit bonus version of Google out there i wouldn't mind an invite to the party
social media outliers doubts.
crankedup5 said:
For me seeing our PM elbow bump the Australian PM both announcing ‘deal done’ outweighs any
social media outliers doubts.
The deal isn't done.social media outliers doubts.
It's an agreement in principle.
Not a signed and sealed trade deal.
The deal isn't done.
See the post from VDS above, his google is better than mine. And yours, obviously.
Mortarboard said:
Tuna said:
Says it all that you think this deserves a 
Would love to see your numbers for that claim though.
Take your pick, my fishy friend.Would love to see your numbers for that claim though.
UK gov estimate 34 million a year savings. About 50p each, p.a.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-agrees-histo...
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1450192/Australi...
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2021/jun/15/u...
M.
So far you've told me the glass is half empty, without knowing how big the glass is.
JeffreyD said:
crankedup5 said:
For me seeing our PM elbow bump the Australian PM both announcing ‘deal done’ outweighs any
social media outliers doubts.
The deal isn't done.social media outliers doubts.
It's an agreement in principle.
Not a signed and sealed trade deal.
The deal isn't done.
See the post from VDS above, his google is better than mine. And yours, obviously.
crankedup5 said:
Do Companies like High St supermarkets upon contractor drivers / self employed or do they employ them on their books?
In other news the cockle season has started, exports into the EU mean that suppliers. must wash/
cook the product and keep a record / show labels to customs that will ensure smooth passage into the EU. It really doesn’t seem onerous.
The trucking companies are normally contracted, they own the truck, the drivers, insure them.In other news the cockle season has started, exports into the EU mean that suppliers. must wash/
cook the product and keep a record / show labels to customs that will ensure smooth passage into the EU. It really doesn’t seem onerous.
They agree to provide a truck at set routes for a lower fixed price that includes other tasks for free or lower rate, eg multiple drops, lower rate for an empty trailer or free transfers between stores so your company can move stock to stores that are performing better. You can lease your own trailers and trucks, so that you pay for the trailer being covered in your logo. Trucking companies will have multiple drivers for the one truck as a driver does an 8 hour day. But the trucks can run 24/7, other than servicing our trucks that we use have not turned off since boxing day last year.
Where Britain is suffering is that the the companies like mine are 3-5 years deep with suppliers, a driver sitting in traffic or at a port only gets paid per km. So for the truckers why go to Britain when you can do other easier routes. Employing your own drivers/trucks insulates you, but you are losing drivers as they can make more money independently as there is a shortage of drivers at the moment.
As a company you now are now choosing to bulk ship direct, then sort it out internally as an independent contractor will not do the stuff above that the long term contract does. But due to Brexit warehouse prices have risen. So there is no flexibility. Hence the shortages even now in June.
You now also have the draw of Australia made easier as they earn 20 grand more than a British driver. So any experienced driver will head to Aussie. I don't see many Aussies wanting to take a 20 grand pay cut and sit on the M4 over the next few years.
blueg33 said:
Listening to a panel discussion on the radio on Tuesday. Both leavers and remainers.
There was an interesting stat from polls the show quoted
Most leavers still think we should have left
Most remainers still think we should have remained
Most undecided now think we should have remained
Percentages. 51 percent remain 49 percent leave
Did the show mention the dates and sources of the various polls? There was ComRes poll on the 20th June delivered a 51% - 49% result. Which aspect do you find interesting? Was the radio show, or are you, suggesting 51% - 49% is a shift towards remaining? Remain polled significantly higher than 51% just before the referendum.There was an interesting stat from polls the show quoted
Most leavers still think we should have left
Most remainers still think we should have remained
Most undecided now think we should have remained
Percentages. 51 percent remain 49 percent leave
Here's a link showing data from 87 different polls covering several years prior to the referendum through until late 2020. https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-there-was...
A couple of months before the ref, on the 28th of April 2015, the data from the 87 polls show the split was 59% remain - 41% leave.
12 months later, on the 24th April 2016 the split was 54% remain - 46% leave.
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