Brexit - was it worth it? (Vol. 2)
Discussion
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hstewie said:
hstewie said: On the subject of Sarkozy.
Naive French authorities told this whole ‘politicians paying for their crimes’ thing will never catch on
Said it before but it's getting harder to tell satire from truth
Indeed - lol at the last sentence: Naive French authorities told this whole ‘politicians paying for their crimes’ thing will never catch on
Said it before but it's getting harder to tell satire from truth
“Whether it’s US presidents inciting insurrection, British politicians giving dodgy PPE contracts to their mates, or Prime ministers arranging to have journalists beaten up – they need to understand there are no consequences for people like us.”
Massive lol at the attempts to make you start another thread Stewie for UK corruption when it was crankled making a fuss about some old issue as his sole limp remaining brexit benefit. Little wonder some would rather argue about stuff like this as they don't want to talk about the impact on UK trade they have caused. Funny that.
As for levelling up being a benefit. Having less tax take - which is the consensus of anyone who understands data as the only logical impact of this brexit deal - certainly will mean there is less money for levelling up. So brexit makes levelling up harder, and does not enable it. "Game" that. lol.
And the only impact brexit has had on immigration is not a positive one in terms of the economy or critical skills - all the action & rhetoric from Priti "pull up the ladder" Patel is fundamentally against immigration and is making it harder for people to come here - even if you can attract specific skills it is now harder to bring family etc.- all this adds up make the UK less attractive than pre-brexit. Brexit is an obvious loss there too then.
This discussion is getting even more stale than usual with deep entrenchment. After lots of talk of "brexit will be like sawing your foot off" - rubbished as scare mongering for so long - we are now in the literally "we have sawn our foot off" phase, there is blood everywhere and still there is complete denial over any negative effects. Minds will never change even in the face of irrefutable facts - final proof that brexit belief now transcends any rational analysis.
Some have effectively said they are proud of the vote despite the clear job losses. Surely not all brexiters think like this?
roger.mellie said:
How much of that required brexit? Underfunded fiscal stimulus is not a problem of EU membership. Maybe I'm missing something on LPF funding rules but I very much doubt it. I accept you've acknowledged that too.
I'm not the one making too much of international trade benefits, the politicians are
. Feel free to pretend that brexit wasn't sold to some on that score but don't expect me to believe you.
Regional development? I think we both agree that's a very good thing. I'll await the evidence of it happening. Seriously, I hope it happens but I don't see brexit as a new pathway to getting it.
Immigration? Couldn't agree more. FoM is small fry compared to the level of immigration the UK will need to keep the population in the lifestyle to which they've become accustomed. Time to get used to more rest of the world immigration as the benefactors of cheap labour are not going to turn that tap off.
Brexit Schmexit. I'm not the one making too much of international trade benefits, the politicians are
. Feel free to pretend that brexit wasn't sold to some on that score but don't expect me to believe you.Regional development? I think we both agree that's a very good thing. I'll await the evidence of it happening. Seriously, I hope it happens but I don't see brexit as a new pathway to getting it.
Immigration? Couldn't agree more. FoM is small fry compared to the level of immigration the UK will need to keep the population in the lifestyle to which they've become accustomed. Time to get used to more rest of the world immigration as the benefactors of cheap labour are not going to turn that tap off.
You can't flip the monetary/ fiscal policy stimulus argument without an inflection point. Brexit was that. And cursory school kids analysis of the voting data and wealth / opportunity dispersal tells you its a protest vote (maybe against government or brie eating au pair smuggler's - who knows).
Being in the EU did not restrict our ability to do that realignment, but our entire political and civil service class did.
Sticking an exorcist into that might be worth the trade downsides , but requires whoever is in charge to seize that opportunity.
Only a proper wally wants to suppress of confuse the immigration argument. The data on the UKs vaccine rollout tells you we have an aging population problem - which requires immigration to pay for. Unfortunately thinking that immigration and FoM is the same (the wally world argument), is a total nonsense. Sure there are wallies in team leave who believe the crap Farage comes out with, but their are many illiterates in team remain who dont understand that the 4 freedoms aren't (free).
At the end of the day, you can't replace all the losses of Brexit trade with the same elsewhere. There has to be structural and political change too.
stongle said:
citizensm1th said:
But, but, but grrrrrrrr eu
Its quite funny how you and Chris lack very basic comprehension skills. I dont think this debate is for you. You should probably try ?oblox or something.Don't see you out in force crying when Craig / Iam etc call all brexit voters stupid. Or b
hiew Boris supporters etc etc. I guess the obviously sarcastic numbers went right over all your heads, or perhaps you and team wally are used to such fantastical nonsense you can't tell the difference. You have the sophistication of a carrot. A very short one.DeepEnd said:
Massive lol at the attempts to make you start another thread Stewie for UK corruption when it was crankled making a fuss about some old issue as his sole limp remaining brexit benefit. Little wonder some would rather argue about stuff like this as they don't want to talk about the impact on UK trade they have caused. Funny that.
I did find it slightly odd.Thread title "Brexit - was it worth it?".
"But you said a benefit of Brexit was that it would make our own politicians more accountable so what do you think of these examples of poor behaviour by the Government?".
"Stop talking about that this thread is only about the bad stuff the EU does you're living in an echo chamber".
chrispmartha said:
You don’t half come across as a very arrogant and quite angry man, (with very little sophistication i might add)
Laughable at the sophistication point. I really don't support Brexit that much. I'm 50/50. I have posted more actual real negatives than all of you put together.You are getting attacked for your arrogance, lies and stupidity. Supporting posters that call all leavers stupid; suggests the arrogance is all with you. But you are not smart enough to realise that are you..
chrispmartha said:
stongle said:
citizensm1th said:
But, but, but grrrrrrrr eu
Its quite funny how you and Chris lack very basic comprehension skills. I dont think this debate is for you. You should probably try ?oblox or something.Don't see you out in force crying when Craig / Iam etc call all brexit voters stupid. Or b
hiew Boris supporters etc etc. I guess the obviously sarcastic numbers went right over all your heads, or perhaps you and team wally are used to such fantastical nonsense you can't tell the difference. You have the sophistication of a carrot. A very short one.stongle said:
chrispmartha said:
You don’t half come across as a very arrogant and quite angry man, (with very little sophistication i might add)
Laughable at the sophistication point. I really don't support Brexit that much. I'm 50/50. I have posted more actual real negatives than all of you put together.You are getting attacked for your arrogance, lies and stupidity. Supporting posters that call all leavers stupid; suggests the arrogance is all with you. But you are not smart enough to realise that are you..
‘Attacked’ see what I mean about you being an angry man.
As for not being ‘smart enough’ see what I mean, it’s pure arrogance, you’ve got some kind of superiority complex.
If you can point out my ‘lies’ that would be good.
Maybe you’ll report me or something now.
citizensm1th said:
It's not his fault nuance was not taught at his school, I guess the comes with being a numbers guy so very black or white
Again with the lack of reading (see post above). Its all nuance. You just are not sophisticated enough to understand you are the butt of a metajoke. I see DeepEnd just posted 500+ words of nonsense above. I'll leave you to that crap. I'm sure he'll also post some evidence cribbed from LBC to back it up.stongle said:
citizensm1th said:
It's not his fault nuance was not taught at his school, I guess the comes with being a numbers guy so very black or white
Again with the lack of reading (see post above). Its all nuance. You just are not sophisticated enough to understand you are the butt of a metajoke. I see DeepEnd just posted 500+ words of nonsense above. I'll leave you to that crap. I'm sure he'll also post some evidence cribbed from LBC to back it up.chrispmartha said:
Your arrogance has nothing to do with whether you support Brexit or not.
‘Attacked’ see what I mean about you being an angry man.
As for not being ‘smart enough’ see what I mean, it’s pure arrogance, you’ve got some kind of superiority complex.
If you can point out my ‘lies’ that would be good.
Thats a collective "you". And given that you all club around with subjective, ill-informed crap - championed by a repeatedly proven liar - long may this continue.‘Attacked’ see what I mean about you being an angry man.
As for not being ‘smart enough’ see what I mean, it’s pure arrogance, you’ve got some kind of superiority complex.
If you can point out my ‘lies’ that would be good.
Get some objective hard data or arguments, then you'll get treated with some respect. In the meantime, try "the script" if being the butt of a joke hurts so much.
stongle said:
chrispmartha said:
Your arrogance has nothing to do with whether you support Brexit or not.
‘Attacked’ see what I mean about you being an angry man.
As for not being ‘smart enough’ see what I mean, it’s pure arrogance, you’ve got some kind of superiority complex.
If you can point out my ‘lies’ that would be good.
Thats a collective "you". And given that you all club around with subjective, ill-informed crap - championed by a repeatedly proven liar - long may this continue.‘Attacked’ see what I mean about you being an angry man.
As for not being ‘smart enough’ see what I mean, it’s pure arrogance, you’ve got some kind of superiority complex.
If you can point out my ‘lies’ that would be good.
Get some objective hard data or arguments, then you'll get treated with some respect. In the meantime, try "the script" if being the butt of a joke hurts so much.
You are not as clever as you think nor do you seem to understand self referential humour.
Objective hard data? You think the Brexit debate was won on those things?
Mortarboard said:
crankedup said:
Mortarboard said:
crankedup said:
As with all good deals something that satisfy both sides to a reasonable degree, so somewhere in between I agree.
Yes it’s in all of our interests that we secure as many trade deals as quickly as possible. But not at any price (I know you didn’t suggest such like, I’m just saying)
Something in between is what's currently threatening UK farming.Yes it’s in all of our interests that we secure as many trade deals as quickly as possible. But not at any price (I know you didn’t suggest such like, I’m just saying)
Has to be one or the other. At this stage, I think it's "easier" to line up with EU standards/regs (as the UK is already meeting/used to those standards)
Dropping controls to allow trade to open up with the US is a gamble, will the US do an FTA (directly or indirectly) any time soon? Or soon enough to allow UK farming to survive?
M.
It's this alignment/agreement that is causing the friction on agri-exports from UK to the EU.
My feeling is that it was political distaste that prevented this. A lot of folks throw out the line that it would mean the UK tied to the "least common standard" but personally I think that's hogwash. Boris couldn't be seen to "kowtowing" to EU standards. Ireland used to use the "Guaranteed Irish" system to highlight local products. UK, now that it's outside of the EU could do the same.
If push came to shove, who's standards would you prefer to see in the UK for food/agri? US or EU?
They're isn't really any other realistic target market to trade with for UK agri-business yet. South America maybe?
So from a practical viewpoint, for the sake of UK agri-business, which way do you jump? Only other alternative is to promote national sales. There might be scope to do that, given the scale of UK food imports.
M
All I do know is that the Government has urged some divergence, which seems to have been the call for twenty years or more!
I don't know why many of you bother with anything other than regurgitating his "gaming" of Skegness Luft iii and laughing.
That said the angry-SMS is hilarious to watch.
The only inflection point we need is one like they just had in the US where their own (more extreme admittedly) version of our popularist letterbox dog whistle idiot was removed from office. I don't care what we get next as long as it has some integrity and competence.
That said the angry-SMS is hilarious to watch.
The only inflection point we need is one like they just had in the US where their own (more extreme admittedly) version of our popularist letterbox dog whistle idiot was removed from office. I don't care what we get next as long as it has some integrity and competence.
DeepEnd said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: On the subject of Sarkozy.
Naive French authorities told this whole ‘politicians paying for their crimes’ thing will never catch on
Said it before but it's getting harder to tell satire from truth
Indeed - lol at the last sentence: Naive French authorities told this whole ‘politicians paying for their crimes’ thing will never catch on
Said it before but it's getting harder to tell satire from truth
“Whether it’s US presidents inciting insurrection, British politicians giving dodgy PPE contracts to their mates, or Prime ministers arranging to have journalists beaten up – they need to understand there are no consequences for people like us.”
Massive lol at the attempts to make you start another thread Stewie for UK corruption when it was crankled making a fuss about some old issue as his sole limp remaining brexit benefit. Little wonder some would rather argue about stuff like this as they don't want to talk about the impact on UK trade they have caused. Funny that.
As for levelling up being a benefit. Having less tax take - which is the consensus of anyone who understands data as the only logical impact of this brexit deal - certainly will mean there is less money for levelling up. So brexit makes levelling up harder, and does not enable it. "Game" that. lol.
And the only impact brexit has had on immigration is not a positive one in terms of the economy or critical skills - all the action & rhetoric from Priti "pull up the ladder" Patel is fundamentally against immigration and is making it harder for people to come here - even if you can attract specific skills it is now harder to bring family etc.- all this adds up make the UK less attractive than pre-brexit. Brexit is an obvious loss there too then.
This discussion is getting even more stale than usual with deep entrenchment. After lots of talk of "brexit will be like sawing your foot off" - rubbished as scare mongering for so long - we are now in the literally "we have sawn our foot off" phase, there is blood everywhere and still there is complete denial over any negative effects. Minds will never change even in the face of irrefutable facts - final proof that brexit belief now transcends any rational analysis.
Some have effectively said they are proud of the vote despite the clear job losses. Surely not all brexiters think like this?
Of course I feel a little bit of concern for those that have suffered setbacks due to brexit, but that’s life. Pleased to be away from EU fraud and corruption, that alone is worth brexit, the rest is bonus brexit
chrispmartha said:
Objective hard data? You think the Brexit debate was won on those things?
What debate? or do you mean referendum.The 2 are quite different...... the former will last years. The later was a matter of opinion - and FA else.
Oh, and the process of Brexit is far from over (someone was saying Brexit was done yesterday - its not).
As for referential humour. It amuses me, and those around me. If you don't like it, try the script. I treat serious posters such as Roger with more respect - why would that be?
stongle said:
chrispmartha said:
Objective hard data? You think the Brexit debate was won on those things?
What debate? or do you mean referendum.The 2 are quite different...... the former will last years. The later was a matter of opinion - and FA else.
Oh, and the process of Brexit is far from over (someone was saying Brexit was done yesterday - its not).
As for referential humour. It amuses me, and those around me. If you don't like it, try the script. I treat serious posters such as Roger with more respect - why would that be?
The debate on wether the UK leaves the EU is very much over, the debate on wether it was worthwhile however...(they are two separate things).
I said you don’t understand referential humour, maybe those around you are just humouring you?
Edited by chrispmartha on Monday 1st March 19:54
jsf said:
citizensm1th said:
So any corruption in an eu state is eu corruption.... Right.
When in fact it is French corruption and one perpetrator has been sentenced for it and your other posted corrupt act has been called out by the very organisation you are stating is corrupt.
Thank fk you are not working in the legal field
Do you think being convicted of financial state level crime should bar you from a top role in the EU?When in fact it is French corruption and one perpetrator has been sentenced for it and your other posted corrupt act has been called out by the very organisation you are stating is corrupt.
Thank f
k you are not working in the legal field The current head of the ECB is a convicted criminal.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: I did find it slightly odd.
Thread title "Brexit - was it worth it?".
"But you said a benefit of Brexit was that it would make our own politicians more accountable so what do you think of these examples of poor behaviour by the Government?".
"Stop talking about that this thread is only about the bad stuff the EU does you're living in an echo chamber".
Nice fantasy above.Thread title "Brexit - was it worth it?".
"But you said a benefit of Brexit was that it would make our own politicians more accountable so what do you think of these examples of poor behaviour by the Government?".
"Stop talking about that this thread is only about the bad stuff the EU does you're living in an echo chamber".
The reality.
UK politician is brought to account by the UK court.
Idiot uses this to suggest UK politician isn't held to account by UK court and uses this flip on reality to state Brexit isn't achieving what it should, by not holding UK politicians to account.
Rinse and repeat.
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