How Far Will House Prices Fall? [Volume 6]
Discussion
Challo said:
G-wiz said:
Is it actually in Windsor or one of the less desirable areas nearby. Link to the listing?
skwdenyer said:
Louis Balfour said:
classicaholic said:
skwdenyer said:
I'm wondering how much of the market falls have been due to incompetent estate agents.
Here's an example. In June 2022, we put in an offer on a one-of-a-kind property in the Dales with views to die for. We offered over asking, and were one of two bidders. We were told at the time that we lost out not because of our bid (which was said to be similar to the other), but because the other was a cash buyer. We were proceedable, with no chain, etc. We made it clear to the agent that we would be keen to step in if the other bidder became an issue.
Never mind.
Last week, out of interest, I checked the Land Registry. The sale did not complete until May 2023, and did so at a price substantially below our offer. Not only did the "cash buyer" take 11 months to complete, they seem to have been allowed to negotiate a very sizeable discount (12% - not small) to boot.
At no time were we contacted by the agents to check if we were still interested, could proceed, and so on. For much of that time we would absolutely have been willing to step in.
I can't help but imagine the agents have served their vendor badly here. So I started looking at other properties, and saw a surprisingly consistent pattern, over several years, of properties closing significantly below what I knew the bid levels to have been.
Whilst I realise that a "shrewd negotiator" of a buyer will feel happy to have gotten a >10% discount post-handshake, it does seem as if there's something odd going on here. Why on earth would an agent not have a quick ring-around to see if there was still interest at the original price?
Check the local Golf club or Rotary club - wouldn't be surprised to find a common denominator!Here's an example. In June 2022, we put in an offer on a one-of-a-kind property in the Dales with views to die for. We offered over asking, and were one of two bidders. We were told at the time that we lost out not because of our bid (which was said to be similar to the other), but because the other was a cash buyer. We were proceedable, with no chain, etc. We made it clear to the agent that we would be keen to step in if the other bidder became an issue.
Never mind.
Last week, out of interest, I checked the Land Registry. The sale did not complete until May 2023, and did so at a price substantially below our offer. Not only did the "cash buyer" take 11 months to complete, they seem to have been allowed to negotiate a very sizeable discount (12% - not small) to boot.
At no time were we contacted by the agents to check if we were still interested, could proceed, and so on. For much of that time we would absolutely have been willing to step in.
I can't help but imagine the agents have served their vendor badly here. So I started looking at other properties, and saw a surprisingly consistent pattern, over several years, of properties closing significantly below what I knew the bid levels to have been.
Whilst I realise that a "shrewd negotiator" of a buyer will feel happy to have gotten a >10% discount post-handshake, it does seem as if there's something odd going on here. Why on earth would an agent not have a quick ring-around to see if there was still interest at the original price?
Trying actively to buy an apartment in NYC and its difficult - the market is very weird at the moment.
2023 was a bad year for housing as interest rate hikes scared off buyers and sellers alike. There were 50% less transactions than in 2022.
There are a lot of estate sales in the market (i.e. have to sell, not want to sell), and prices are pretty depressed - sale prices are about 12% down on listing price. It's not all bargains though because obviously many sellers are just sitting tight waiting for better conditions, and co-ops can and do block deals that would set a bad valuation comparison to other units in the building.
whats interesting is that cost per square foot is down, but average transaction size is up - I think its still a lot of wealthier all cash buyers in the market for whom mortgage rates are not a concern buying apartments at the top end of the market. It's us povvos who need mortgages that are frozen out right now.
2023 was a bad year for housing as interest rate hikes scared off buyers and sellers alike. There were 50% less transactions than in 2022.
There are a lot of estate sales in the market (i.e. have to sell, not want to sell), and prices are pretty depressed - sale prices are about 12% down on listing price. It's not all bargains though because obviously many sellers are just sitting tight waiting for better conditions, and co-ops can and do block deals that would set a bad valuation comparison to other units in the building.
whats interesting is that cost per square foot is down, but average transaction size is up - I think its still a lot of wealthier all cash buyers in the market for whom mortgage rates are not a concern buying apartments at the top end of the market. It's us povvos who need mortgages that are frozen out right now.
skwdenyer said:
And so the moral is to over-offer then chip away, which is precisely what winds up so many vendors
The EA may not in reality be on the side of the vendor, but I’m pretty certain the Estate Agency Act is still in force… but since we don’t actually enforce regulations…
In our experience of a few sales from within the family, once a buyer is on the hook the EA just tells all other enquirers that the house is sold. The EA may not in reality be on the side of the vendor, but I’m pretty certain the Estate Agency Act is still in force… but since we don’t actually enforce regulations…
Sure, they're supposed to put offers forwards but then you're into the "what constitutes an offer"? question. In two of the cases we had people contacting us as the EA had rebuffed them. In one of them it would have been very helpful to have had other interested buzzing around as the buyer was very flightly, but it did eventualy go through.
In a third, the buyer who made the high offer then dragged the sale out for 6mths, then chipped (quite a big chip) their offer just before exchange. By that time weariness had set in and other interested parties had long gone.
Edited by Sheepshanks on Friday 26th January 16:02
G-wiz said:
Challo said:
G-wiz said:
Is it actually in Windsor or one of the less desirable areas nearby. Link to the listing?Challo said:
So not really in Windsor, and doesn’t look the nicest of areas to be honest. House looks like it’s been passed onto the family and perhaps they are selling due to a parent death or going into a home. Plus needs gutting and redoing so a chunk of money. Is 400k actually a realistic number to what it should be selling at?
Not overly familiar with the area or asking prices, but to drop from 500k to 400k (20%) in 2 months is a damning indictment of the market.okgo said:
G-wiz said:
Not overly familiar with the area or asking prices, but to drop from 500k to 400k (20%) in 2 months is a damning indictment of the market.
It isn’t.It’s likely just a totally miss priced property which happens all the time.
Unreal said:
I think you're right. Was £500k being obtained for these in the past? Looks like a £399K asking price property today.
Have to agree. Seriously mispriced, so they've wiped a huge percentage off and gone "offers over". Probably hoping the massive reduction will generate loads of interest, and a flurry of buyers pushing the end bid up considerably.
In reality, like you say its a struggle to see it being worth over £400k
Unreal said:
okgo said:
G-wiz said:
Not overly familiar with the area or asking prices, but to drop from 500k to 400k (20%) in 2 months is a damning indictment of the market.
It isn’t.It’s likely just a totally miss priced property which happens all the time.
Also it appears to be an older persons house, and perhaps they dropped the price to try and secure a quick sale.
Its not the market, just the Estate Agent chancing their arm at a high price.
classicaholic said:
skwdenyer said:
I'm wondering how much of the market falls have been due to incompetent estate agents.
Here's an example. In June 2022, we put in an offer on a one-of-a-kind property in the Dales with views to die for. We offered over asking, and were one of two bidders. We were told at the time that we lost out not because of our bid (which was said to be similar to the other), but because the other was a cash buyer. We were proceedable, with no chain, etc. We made it clear to the agent that we would be keen to step in if the other bidder became an issue.
Never mind.
Last week, out of interest, I checked the Land Registry. The sale did not complete until May 2023, and did so at a price substantially below our offer. Not only did the "cash buyer" take 11 months to complete, they seem to have been allowed to negotiate a very sizeable discount (12% - not small) to boot.
At no time were we contacted by the agents to check if we were still interested, could proceed, and so on. For much of that time we would absolutely have been willing to step in.
I can't help but imagine the agents have served their vendor badly here. So I started looking at other properties, and saw a surprisingly consistent pattern, over several years, of properties closing significantly below what I knew the bid levels to have been.
Whilst I realise that a "shrewd negotiator" of a buyer will feel happy to have gotten a >10% discount post-handshake, it does seem as if there's something odd going on here. Why on earth would an agent not have a quick ring-around to see if there was still interest at the original price?
Check the local Golf club or Rotary club - wouldn't be surprised to find a common denominator!Here's an example. In June 2022, we put in an offer on a one-of-a-kind property in the Dales with views to die for. We offered over asking, and were one of two bidders. We were told at the time that we lost out not because of our bid (which was said to be similar to the other), but because the other was a cash buyer. We were proceedable, with no chain, etc. We made it clear to the agent that we would be keen to step in if the other bidder became an issue.
Never mind.
Last week, out of interest, I checked the Land Registry. The sale did not complete until May 2023, and did so at a price substantially below our offer. Not only did the "cash buyer" take 11 months to complete, they seem to have been allowed to negotiate a very sizeable discount (12% - not small) to boot.
At no time were we contacted by the agents to check if we were still interested, could proceed, and so on. For much of that time we would absolutely have been willing to step in.
I can't help but imagine the agents have served their vendor badly here. So I started looking at other properties, and saw a surprisingly consistent pattern, over several years, of properties closing significantly below what I knew the bid levels to have been.
Whilst I realise that a "shrewd negotiator" of a buyer will feel happy to have gotten a >10% discount post-handshake, it does seem as if there's something odd going on here. Why on earth would an agent not have a quick ring-around to see if there was still interest at the original price?
We’d viewed a property similarly and lost out as we were waiting on an exchange (solicitor muppetry) and other buyer was cash ready to go… and some months later while it was still sold STC we dropped them a letter asking how they were getting on etc.
Wasn’t the news we wanted but they wrote a very nice letter back.
If I were buying a dream property I’d always make sure to let the seller know who I am etc, and not let a dumbass ‘agent’ represent my interests.
Sheepshanks said:
Flooble said:
I would be quite happy to never see another Prawn Cocktail in my life. Or that other thing that was a crazed in the 70s, came in a basket ... fried nothingness.
Next you'll be saying you didn't like black forest gateau.As it happens, had a kind of prawn cocktail as part of my
Our first house was £20K - people thought we were completely mad as your typical 3 bed semi was £15K.
In 1998 we bought a similar house for £50k I feel cheated. My pay was £25k and interest rates were 8% iirc
They are now worth probably £250k. The pay for a similar job with similar years of experience would be £45k
My conclusion? I'm going to defrost some prawns.
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143028503#/...
This on the face of it looks like a cracking deal. The sq footage, the location and the price for a ftb.
The only thing that makes it look too good to be true is the cladding. Doesn't say it a cash only purchase though.
If I could cobble together a little deposit as a ftb I'd be all over this rather than paying 1400/1500 quid to rent the same thing.
This on the face of it looks like a cracking deal. The sq footage, the location and the price for a ftb.
The only thing that makes it look too good to be true is the cladding. Doesn't say it a cash only purchase though.
If I could cobble together a little deposit as a ftb I'd be all over this rather than paying 1400/1500 quid to rent the same thing.
princeperch said:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143028503#/...
This on the face of it looks like a cracking deal. The sq footage, the location and the price for a ftb.
The only thing that makes it look too good to be true is the cladding. Doesn't say it a cash only purchase though.
If I could cobble together a little deposit as a ftb I'd be all over this rather than paying 1400/1500 quid to rent the same thing.
"View of artworks by local painters".This on the face of it looks like a cracking deal. The sq footage, the location and the price for a ftb.
The only thing that makes it look too good to be true is the cladding. Doesn't say it a cash only purchase though.
If I could cobble together a little deposit as a ftb I'd be all over this rather than paying 1400/1500 quid to rent the same thing.
Louis Balfour said:
princeperch said:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143028503#/...
This on the face of it looks like a cracking deal. The sq footage, the location and the price for a ftb.
The only thing that makes it look too good to be true is the cladding. Doesn't say it a cash only purchase though.
If I could cobble together a little deposit as a ftb I'd be all over this rather than paying 1400/1500 quid to rent the same thing.
"View of artworks by local painters".This on the face of it looks like a cracking deal. The sq footage, the location and the price for a ftb.
The only thing that makes it look too good to be true is the cladding. Doesn't say it a cash only purchase though.
If I could cobble together a little deposit as a ftb I'd be all over this rather than paying 1400/1500 quid to rent the same thing.
princeperch said:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143028503#/...
This on the face of it looks like a cracking deal. The sq footage, the location and the price for a ftb.
The only thing that makes it look too good to be true is the cladding. Doesn't say it a cash only purchase though.
If I could cobble together a little deposit as a ftb I'd be all over this rather than paying 1400/1500 quid to rent the same thing.
Looks pretty good to me. Needs a ~£60k income. This on the face of it looks like a cracking deal. The sq footage, the location and the price for a ftb.
The only thing that makes it look too good to be true is the cladding. Doesn't say it a cash only purchase though.
If I could cobble together a little deposit as a ftb I'd be all over this rather than paying 1400/1500 quid to rent the same thing.
I will use the standard “for London” caveat but I can see what PP is saying.
My best mate lives down the road from there nearer Bow Road station and it’s an easy route into central town and has plenty of green spaces and Vicky park. Bit far from gentrification proper yet but we’ll en route.
For that money you’d be hard pressed to find a better combination I’d say, if that was your wants/needs.
My best mate lives down the road from there nearer Bow Road station and it’s an easy route into central town and has plenty of green spaces and Vicky park. Bit far from gentrification proper yet but we’ll en route.
For that money you’d be hard pressed to find a better combination I’d say, if that was your wants/needs.
princeperch said:
https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/143028503#/...
This on the face of it looks like a cracking deal. The sq footage, the location and the price for a ftb.
The only thing that makes it look too good to be true is the cladding. Doesn't say it a cash only purchase though.
If I could cobble together a little deposit as a ftb I'd be all over this rather than paying 1400/1500 quid to rent the same thing.
Is the A12 proximity a part of the location you consider appealing? Is it not a problem?This on the face of it looks like a cracking deal. The sq footage, the location and the price for a ftb.
The only thing that makes it look too good to be true is the cladding. Doesn't say it a cash only purchase though.
If I could cobble together a little deposit as a ftb I'd be all over this rather than paying 1400/1500 quid to rent the same thing.
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