Vaccine/Health Passports
Discussion
MikeT66 said:
1) The government via HMRC. That information is given on or around age 16. It doesn't change, does not require any particular requirements apart from being a UK resident, and is no subject to potentially changing data.
2) I'm on about the Chinese style social credit score. Given the lambasting that the government have received via Twitter/social media over the last year, I bet they'd love a bit of this. Say/write something critical? Deducted points, a la Black Mirror. We know how internet use links up via cookies, software, etc, and there's already the potential for the Track And Trace app to be modified, so where does this stop?
3) "At least for a while"? Come on... once it's forced into society, it is not getting withdrawn. The last year must have told you that, given the government's avoidance of parliamentary procedure and extensions of covid measures.
4) No jab/no job acceptable? Why? As a risk to work colleagues? As a former H&S Officer, I understand that risks must be measured, but I'd struggle to see why a medical procedure possibly against the individual's rights/beliefs is trumped by the working rights for another.
5) We're not talking about driving/getting a pilot's licence/scuba diving qualification. We are potentially talking about restriction of freedom of movement and access to services. I don't see it as the same thing at all.
2) I'm on about the Chinese style social credit score. Given the lambasting that the government have received via Twitter/social media over the last year, I bet they'd love a bit of this. Say/write something critical? Deducted points, a la Black Mirror. We know how internet use links up via cookies, software, etc, and there's already the potential for the Track And Trace app to be modified, so where does this stop?
3) "At least for a while"? Come on... once it's forced into society, it is not getting withdrawn. The last year must have told you that, given the government's avoidance of parliamentary procedure and extensions of covid measures.
4) No jab/no job acceptable? Why? As a risk to work colleagues? As a former H&S Officer, I understand that risks must be measured, but I'd struggle to see why a medical procedure possibly against the individual's rights/beliefs is trumped by the working rights for another.
5) We're not talking about driving/getting a pilot's licence/scuba diving qualification. We are potentially talking about restriction of freedom of movement and access to services. I don't see it as the same thing at all.
- Potato potato. The same people who would look after that data already hold a lot of data about you
- Tin foil. (Also IME the ones who complain of this the most are usually only too willing to sign over their data to Facebook, Google and Twitter. "The Man" has access to us all already)
- Not fussed personally. I'm not one of those who would give my life to avoid even the idea of an id card tbh. I think the benefits outweigh the potential downsides. I doubt this will go through without going through Parliament
- As noted, you don't have to have a jab. Nobody is forcing you to do so. There are many things I am compelled to do/have in my possession to work for my clients. I have a choice. This is no different
- We see it differently
Access to a concert? Restaurant? So what. Not life necessities. Your "rights" aren't being yanked away. You still have power to choose. It's underscoring that we all have a "responsibility" though. I'm also of the view that our balance of those two things is very wrong at present
Sophisticated Sarah said:
YouGov poll just gone up asking about health passports.
66% currently in favour.
1 Polls don't have a good record as far as accuracy is concerned.66% currently in favour.
2 Nobody has ever asked me or anyone I know for these polls- I suspect tey pick their audience according to what result they'd like
3 I remember the "Yes, Prime Minister" episode where Sir Humphrey explained how polls can easily be influenced (ie manipulated).
JuanCarlosFandango said:
...
If then we still have a rump of awkward loons who are spreading vicious rumours (like we didn't with TB or whooping cough) and it is still causing problems and outbreaks then, and only then, consider how we can quash this and increase uptake without badgering and bullying people in a way that is more likely to stir up resentment and disengagement than cooperation.
TB and Whooping Cough were a different era. The prevalence of other diseases is also on the rise I believe too. Times have changed. Different approaches may be needed and the technology there to facilitate them.If then we still have a rump of awkward loons who are spreading vicious rumours (like we didn't with TB or whooping cough) and it is still causing problems and outbreaks then, and only then, consider how we can quash this and increase uptake without badgering and bullying people in a way that is more likely to stir up resentment and disengagement than cooperation.
There are plenty in the country who have been up in arms since the outset that the govt is too reactive. No point shutting the door once the horse has bolted etc.
People would still have a choice.
(I don't see it coming in personally...but it would bother me as much as Sean Bean rates YouGov polls if it did
)I note that most in favour of this aren't necessarily in favour of it for altruistic reasons. Most of the in favour comments I've seen are usually just spittle filled rants about wanting anti-vaxxers (aka anyone who doesn't 100% toe the sage/govt line) to suffer horribly and live like an 18th century peasant.
If people thought Brexit was divisive, then the introduction of these things will make the Brexit debate look like children's playground argument.
If people thought Brexit was divisive, then the introduction of these things will make the Brexit debate look like children's playground argument.
Murph7355 said:
TB and Whooping Cough were a different era. The prevalence of other diseases is also on the rise I believe too. Times have changed. Different approaches may be needed and the technology there to facilitate them.
There are plenty in the country who have been up in arms since the outset that the govt is too reactive. No point shutting the door once the horse has bolted etc.
People would still have a choice.
(I don't see it coming in personally...but it would bother me as much as Sean Bean rates YouGov polls if it did)
It might need a different approach and it might not. I'd certainly like to see the scale of the problem and the options on the table before rushing headlong into a draconian approach that could well backfire. There are plenty in the country who have been up in arms since the outset that the govt is too reactive. No point shutting the door once the horse has bolted etc.
People would still have a choice.
(I don't see it coming in personally...but it would bother me as much as Sean Bean rates YouGov polls if it did
)Murph7355 said:
- We see it differently Access to a concert? Restaurant? So what. Not life necessities. Your "rights" aren't being yanked away. You still have power to choose. It's underscoring that we all have a "responsibility" though. I'm also of the view that our balance of those two things is very wrong at present
purplepenguin said:
Sophisticated Sarah said:
YouGov poll just gone up asking about health passports.
66% currently in favour.
Do you mean “health” or “vaccine”? Because half the people in this country are far from healthy.66% currently in favour.
Apart from the ones that want to go abroad, what hardship will we have really if the passports are introduced? Amazon or other on line retailers will home deliver anything you want so there isn't any practical need to go to any shops. Supermarkets will either do click and collect or home deliver as well so thats the food sorted.
As for pubs, the public have had a year to work out how to still socialise and drink alcohol in other ways. We have recently wired up a building in someone's garden that has a bar, pool table and dart board. We are connecting something similar up at the job we are on now and in a couple of weeks we are putting in the supply for a purpose built big tiki bar thing with outdoor heaters etc. There must be many many more of these things being built all around the Country. Not everyone has dirty scumbag grassing neighbours so the drinking/socialising culture will move to a more underground venue, f
k the passport.
Edit : Nearly forgot about the cinemas, 70" TV's are the norm now and quite cheap, coupled with any film you ever want torrented in seconds. I would say the future of pubs, shops and cinemas is well and truly in their own hands in how they want to play it from this day forward.
As for pubs, the public have had a year to work out how to still socialise and drink alcohol in other ways. We have recently wired up a building in someone's garden that has a bar, pool table and dart board. We are connecting something similar up at the job we are on now and in a couple of weeks we are putting in the supply for a purpose built big tiki bar thing with outdoor heaters etc. There must be many many more of these things being built all around the Country. Not everyone has dirty scumbag grassing neighbours so the drinking/socialising culture will move to a more underground venue, f
k the passport. Edit : Nearly forgot about the cinemas, 70" TV's are the norm now and quite cheap, coupled with any film you ever want torrented in seconds. I would say the future of pubs, shops and cinemas is well and truly in their own hands in how they want to play it from this day forward.
Edited by scottyp123 on Wednesday 24th February 19:29
Edited by scottyp123 on Wednesday 24th February 19:29
Electro1980 said:
Murph7355 said:
- We see it differently Access to a concert? Restaurant? So what. Not life necessities. Your "rights" aren't being yanked away. You still have power to choose. It's underscoring that we all have a "responsibility" though. I'm also of the view that our balance of those two things is very wrong at present
I do not think can or can't comes into it.
scottyp123 said:
apart from the ones that want to go abroad, what hardship will we have really if the passports are introduced? Amazon or other on line retailers will home deliver anything you want wo there isn't any practical need to go to any shops. Supermarkets will either do click and collect or home deliver as well so thats the food sorted.
As for pubs, the public have had a year to work out how to still socialise and drink alcohol in other ways. We have recently wired up a building in someone's garden that has a bar, pool table and dart board. We are connecting something similar up at the job we are on now and in a couple of weeks we are putting in the supply for a purpose built big tiki bar thing with outdoor heaters etc. There must be many many more of these things being built all around the Country. Not everyone has dirty scumbag grassing neighbours so the drinking/socialising culture will move to a more underground venue, fk the passport.
Edit : Nearly forgot about the cinemas, 70" TV's are the norm now and quite cheap, coupled with any film you ever want torrented in seconds. I would say the future of pubs, shops and cinemas is well and truly in their own hands in how they want to play it from this day forward.
It is all about choice.As for pubs, the public have had a year to work out how to still socialise and drink alcohol in other ways. We have recently wired up a building in someone's garden that has a bar, pool table and dart board. We are connecting something similar up at the job we are on now and in a couple of weeks we are putting in the supply for a purpose built big tiki bar thing with outdoor heaters etc. There must be many many more of these things being built all around the Country. Not everyone has dirty scumbag grassing neighbours so the drinking/socialising culture will move to a more underground venue, f
k the passport. Edit : Nearly forgot about the cinemas, 70" TV's are the norm now and quite cheap, coupled with any film you ever want torrented in seconds. I would say the future of pubs, shops and cinemas is well and truly in their own hands in how they want to play it from this day forward.
Edited by scottyp123 on Wednesday 24th February 19:29
If you are content to live your life along the lines of your post that is fine.
There will be plenty of us who are willing to carry said passport and do all the things you have chosen to forgo.
Nickgnome said:
Electro1980 said:
Murph7355 said:
- We see it differently Access to a concert? Restaurant? So what. Not life necessities. Your "rights" aren't being yanked away. You still have power to choose. It's underscoring that we all have a "responsibility" though. I'm also of the view that our balance of those two things is very wrong at present
I do not think can or can't comes into it.
Nickgnome said:
scottyp123 said:
apart from the ones that want to go abroad, what hardship will we have really if the passports are introduced? Amazon or other on line retailers will home deliver anything you want wo there isn't any practical need to go to any shops. Supermarkets will either do click and collect or home deliver as well so thats the food sorted.
As for pubs, the public have had a year to work out how to still socialise and drink alcohol in other ways. We have recently wired up a building in someone's garden that has a bar, pool table and dart board. We are connecting something similar up at the job we are on now and in a couple of weeks we are putting in the supply for a purpose built big tiki bar thing with outdoor heaters etc. There must be many many more of these things being built all around the Country. Not everyone has dirty scumbag grassing neighbours so the drinking/socialising culture will move to a more underground venue, fk the passport.
Edit : Nearly forgot about the cinemas, 70" TV's are the norm now and quite cheap, coupled with any film you ever want torrented in seconds. I would say the future of pubs, shops and cinemas is well and truly in their own hands in how they want to play it from this day forward.
It is all about choice.As for pubs, the public have had a year to work out how to still socialise and drink alcohol in other ways. We have recently wired up a building in someone's garden that has a bar, pool table and dart board. We are connecting something similar up at the job we are on now and in a couple of weeks we are putting in the supply for a purpose built big tiki bar thing with outdoor heaters etc. There must be many many more of these things being built all around the Country. Not everyone has dirty scumbag grassing neighbours so the drinking/socialising culture will move to a more underground venue, f
k the passport. Edit : Nearly forgot about the cinemas, 70" TV's are the norm now and quite cheap, coupled with any film you ever want torrented in seconds. I would say the future of pubs, shops and cinemas is well and truly in their own hands in how they want to play it from this day forward.
Edited by scottyp123 on Wednesday 24th February 19:29
If you are content to live your life along the lines of your post that is fine.
There will be plenty of us who are willing to carry said passport and do all the things you have chosen to forgo.
Nickgnome said:
Electro1980 said:
Murph7355 said:
- We see it differently Access to a concert? Restaurant? So what. Not life necessities. Your "rights" aren't being yanked away. You still have power to choose. It's underscoring that we all have a "responsibility" though. I'm also of the view that our balance of those two things is very wrong at present
I do not think can or can't comes into it.
scottyp123 said:
Nickgnome said:
Electro1980 said:
Murph7355 said:
- We see it differently Access to a concert? Restaurant? So what. Not life necessities. Your "rights" aren't being yanked away. You still have power to choose. It's underscoring that we all have a "responsibility" though. I'm also of the view that our balance of those two things is very wrong at present
I do not think can or can't comes into it.
This is a nasty virulent infection which can in some kill.
You are quite free to contact your MP if you feel strongly. Posting here will change nothing.
Some countries are already adopting a requirement for vaccination evidence to enable entry without isolation, so whether you like it or not, certainly for international travel it may become mandatory.
scottyp123 said:
You won't be doing those things if the pubs and Cinemas shut down due to thousands and thousands of people now getting pissed in their man caves at home with cheap beer instead of going down the pub.
I think you will find you are in a minority and PH is remotely representative of the populous as a whole.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff