Vaccine/Health Passports
Discussion
Jasandjules said:
Iminquarantine said:
You are anti vax. If you weren’t anti vax, you would not have written “For the vast majority this is still the disease so deadly that you need a test to see if you have it.”
All when we are in a pandemic with 130,000 dead, large excess mortality and the biggest disruption to normal life since WW2.
And yet not a HCID. Why not? All when we are in a pandemic with 130,000 dead, large excess mortality and the biggest disruption to normal life since WW2.
Ignore ignore and it will go away eventually
Jasandjules said:
Iminquarantine said:
You are anti vax. If you weren’t anti vax, you would not have written “For the vast majority this is still the disease so deadly that you need a test to see if you have it.”
All when we are in a pandemic with 130,000 dead, large excess mortality and the biggest disruption to normal life since WW2.
And yet not a HCID. Why not? All when we are in a pandemic with 130,000 dead, large excess mortality and the biggest disruption to normal life since WW2.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I came into this thread thinking " have the jab, get a note put on your passport, no big deal". Having read that Mr Blair is all for it I'm now convinced it's a terrible idea and part of a wider civil liberty creep.
Nothing that snake does is of any benefit to anyone except him and a few well paying cronies.
Getragdogleg said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I came into this thread thinking " have the jab, get a note put on your passport, no big deal". Having read that Mr Blair is all for it I'm now convinced it's a terrible idea and part of a wider civil liberty creep.
Nothing that snake does is of any benefit to anyone except him and a few well paying cronies.
Iminquarantine said:
That is because unlike something like Ebola, the chance of dying from Covid 19 is low. HCID measures individual risk once infected. You do not know, or refuse to accept this, because you are a Covid denying fruitcake
So on your own statement the chance of dying is low. No need for a vaccine or health passport then is there? 768 said:
Is this the equivalent of the nothing to hide, nothing to fear lot?
As if there can be no argument against covid passports without it suggesting you must be anti-vaccination?
No, I don’t subscribe to ‘nothing to hide, nothing to fear’. That person is anti vax / a Covid denier because they did not talk about vaccine passports. They launched into a statement that Covid-19 is a mild disease, so vaccines aren’t necessary. As if there can be no argument against covid passports without it suggesting you must be anti-vaccination?
Personally I don’t think vaccine passports will happen, except for international travel.
You guys do realise that in the UK this is going to be driven by industry don't you?
Travel companies will require it
Travel insurance companies will require it
Big venues that attract huge crowds will require it
All the government will do is provide a mechanism for people to prove to these industries that you have had a jab and where and when you had it.
Mostly it will be driven by two things companies appealing to the majority who will get vaccinated and the fear the companies will be sued by relatives of anyone catching covid say at the Cheltenham festival in future.
And just like vaccination no one will be forced to prove anything, it's your choice you just may have less other choices in life as a result.
If it is against your principles to have proof of vaccination well that's your choice and I for one will not be shedding any tears that you cannot do some of the things you used to do pre covid. Nor would I force anyone to go against their principles I will just enjoy the whole less brits abroad aspect.
Travel companies will require it
Travel insurance companies will require it
Big venues that attract huge crowds will require it
All the government will do is provide a mechanism for people to prove to these industries that you have had a jab and where and when you had it.
Mostly it will be driven by two things companies appealing to the majority who will get vaccinated and the fear the companies will be sued by relatives of anyone catching covid say at the Cheltenham festival in future.
And just like vaccination no one will be forced to prove anything, it's your choice you just may have less other choices in life as a result.
If it is against your principles to have proof of vaccination well that's your choice and I for one will not be shedding any tears that you cannot do some of the things you used to do pre covid. Nor would I force anyone to go against their principles I will just enjoy the whole less brits abroad aspect.
citizensm1th said:
You guys do realise that in the UK this is going to be driven by industry don't you?
Travel companies will require it
Travel insurance companies will require it
Big venues that attract huge crowds will require it
All the government will do is provide a mechanism for people to prove to these industries that you have had a jab and where and when you had it.
Mostly it will be driven by two things companies appealing to the majority who will get vaccinated and the fear the companies will be sued by relatives of anyone catching covid say at the Cheltenham festival in future.
And just like vaccination no one will be forced to prove anything, it's your choice you just may have less other choices in life as a result.
If it is against your principles to have proof of vaccination well that's your choice and I for one will not be shedding any tears that you cannot do some of the things you used to do pre covid. Nor would I force anyone to go against their principles I will just enjoy the whole less brits abroad aspect.
I agree with all of that. Travel companies will require it
Travel insurance companies will require it
Big venues that attract huge crowds will require it
All the government will do is provide a mechanism for people to prove to these industries that you have had a jab and where and when you had it.
Mostly it will be driven by two things companies appealing to the majority who will get vaccinated and the fear the companies will be sued by relatives of anyone catching covid say at the Cheltenham festival in future.
And just like vaccination no one will be forced to prove anything, it's your choice you just may have less other choices in life as a result.
If it is against your principles to have proof of vaccination well that's your choice and I for one will not be shedding any tears that you cannot do some of the things you used to do pre covid. Nor would I force anyone to go against their principles I will just enjoy the whole less brits abroad aspect.
I do not understand why people are so vexed by the concept.
Nickgnome said:
citizensm1th said:
You guys do realise that in the UK this is going to be driven by industry don't you?
Travel companies will require it
Travel insurance companies will require it
Big venues that attract huge crowds will require it
All the government will do is provide a mechanism for people to prove to these industries that you have had a jab and where and when you had it.
Mostly it will be driven by two things companies appealing to the majority who will get vaccinated and the fear the companies will be sued by relatives of anyone catching covid say at the Cheltenham festival in future.
And just like vaccination no one will be forced to prove anything, it's your choice you just may have less other choices in life as a result.
If it is against your principles to have proof of vaccination well that's your choice and I for one will not be shedding any tears that you cannot do some of the things you used to do pre covid. Nor would I force anyone to go against their principles I will just enjoy the whole less brits abroad aspect.
I agree with all of that. Travel companies will require it
Travel insurance companies will require it
Big venues that attract huge crowds will require it
All the government will do is provide a mechanism for people to prove to these industries that you have had a jab and where and when you had it.
Mostly it will be driven by two things companies appealing to the majority who will get vaccinated and the fear the companies will be sued by relatives of anyone catching covid say at the Cheltenham festival in future.
And just like vaccination no one will be forced to prove anything, it's your choice you just may have less other choices in life as a result.
If it is against your principles to have proof of vaccination well that's your choice and I for one will not be shedding any tears that you cannot do some of the things you used to do pre covid. Nor would I force anyone to go against their principles I will just enjoy the whole less brits abroad aspect.
I do not understand why people are so vexed by the concept.
Sounds like some do.
Leaving it to private companies possibly isn’t the best idea is it?
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
I don't agree with vaccine passports.
I'm not any vaccine; I and my kids have had all the usual vaccines. I have no agenda against the principle of vaccination.
I see vaccines as risk reward. Like any other medicine, I only take them when the potential benefit outweighs potential risk. Neither me, my wife nor kids are personally at risk from Covid. We also know Covid vaccines have been developed quickly and approved under expedited regimes.
The question I ask myself is, for us personally, is the potential benefit from the vaccine greater than the potential risk? For us, the answer is no.
We then look at the argument that us being vaccinated will be valuable for the protection of others, who are vulnerable. I don't agree that this potential societal benefit outweighs our personal risk. Why? Because those who are at risk can be vaccinated and mostly have been. In which case, whether or not I am vaccinated is irrelevant. Additionally, we know the current vaccines do not cut transmission entirely.
There is only a very weak case in support of me and my family unit being vaccinated.
On the above basis, I don't belive it is right and proper, or necessary, or logical, to require us to be vaccinated to do ordinary, everyday things, such as get and maintain a job, go to the theatre or a restaurant or go on holiday to another country that has had widescale vaccinations of the vulnerable. We would be being forced, with no moral or logical justification, to take a vaccine we don't need to protect other people who don't need protecting (because they have their own vaccine protection).
We mustn't lose sight of the fact this virus is very harmful to a very small number of people, much like many other illnesses, yet it isn't to the vast majority. It shouldn't be used to justify wholesale, negative changes to our way of life, once we have vaccinated those vulnerable.
At the risk of sticking my head above the parapet in these threads, I feel exactly the same as Ronald. I consider myself very fortunate to have an astonishingly good immune system, therefore at the moment I feel no compelling reason to be vaccinated.I'm not any vaccine; I and my kids have had all the usual vaccines. I have no agenda against the principle of vaccination.
I see vaccines as risk reward. Like any other medicine, I only take them when the potential benefit outweighs potential risk. Neither me, my wife nor kids are personally at risk from Covid. We also know Covid vaccines have been developed quickly and approved under expedited regimes.
The question I ask myself is, for us personally, is the potential benefit from the vaccine greater than the potential risk? For us, the answer is no.
We then look at the argument that us being vaccinated will be valuable for the protection of others, who are vulnerable. I don't agree that this potential societal benefit outweighs our personal risk. Why? Because those who are at risk can be vaccinated and mostly have been. In which case, whether or not I am vaccinated is irrelevant. Additionally, we know the current vaccines do not cut transmission entirely.
There is only a very weak case in support of me and my family unit being vaccinated.
On the above basis, I don't belive it is right and proper, or necessary, or logical, to require us to be vaccinated to do ordinary, everyday things, such as get and maintain a job, go to the theatre or a restaurant or go on holiday to another country that has had widescale vaccinations of the vulnerable. We would be being forced, with no moral or logical justification, to take a vaccine we don't need to protect other people who don't need protecting (because they have their own vaccine protection).
We mustn't lose sight of the fact this virus is very harmful to a very small number of people, much like many other illnesses, yet it isn't to the vast majority. It shouldn't be used to justify wholesale, negative changes to our way of life, once we have vaccinated those vulnerable.
Something all these threads that mention the topic of "reduced transmission" have in common is that everyone seems to forget that Covid has a relatively short period of transmissibility/infection. Without the vaccine someone is not going to be spending the rest of their life spreading infection to everyone else at every turn.
In the event I am exposed to the virus, or even the suspicion that I may have been exposed to the virus, I will gladly do my part with self isolation/testing. This fulfils my moral obligation as far as I am concerned, not having a mandatory government dictated jab in order to do everyday domestic things.
timmymagic73 said:
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
I don't agree with vaccine passports.
I'm not any vaccine; I and my kids have had all the usual vaccines. I have no agenda against the principle of vaccination.
I see vaccines as risk reward. Like any other medicine, I only take them when the potential benefit outweighs potential risk. Neither me, my wife nor kids are personally at risk from Covid. We also know Covid vaccines have been developed quickly and approved under expedited regimes.
The question I ask myself is, for us personally, is the potential benefit from the vaccine greater than the potential risk? For us, the answer is no.
We then look at the argument that us being vaccinated will be valuable for the protection of others, who are vulnerable. I don't agree that this potential societal benefit outweighs our personal risk. Why? Because those who are at risk can be vaccinated and mostly have been. In which case, whether or not I am vaccinated is irrelevant. Additionally, we know the current vaccines do not cut transmission entirely.
There is only a very weak case in support of me and my family unit being vaccinated.
On the above basis, I don't belive it is right and proper, or necessary, or logical, to require us to be vaccinated to do ordinary, everyday things, such as get and maintain a job, go to the theatre or a restaurant or go on holiday to another country that has had widescale vaccinations of the vulnerable. We would be being forced, with no moral or logical justification, to take a vaccine we don't need to protect other people who don't need protecting (because they have their own vaccine protection).
We mustn't lose sight of the fact this virus is very harmful to a very small number of people, much like many other illnesses, yet it isn't to the vast majority. It shouldn't be used to justify wholesale, negative changes to our way of life, once we have vaccinated those vulnerable.
At the risk of sticking my head above the parapet in these threads, I feel exactly the same as Ronald. I consider myself very fortunate to have an astonishingly good immune system, therefore at the moment I feel no compelling reason to be vaccinated.I'm not any vaccine; I and my kids have had all the usual vaccines. I have no agenda against the principle of vaccination.
I see vaccines as risk reward. Like any other medicine, I only take them when the potential benefit outweighs potential risk. Neither me, my wife nor kids are personally at risk from Covid. We also know Covid vaccines have been developed quickly and approved under expedited regimes.
The question I ask myself is, for us personally, is the potential benefit from the vaccine greater than the potential risk? For us, the answer is no.
We then look at the argument that us being vaccinated will be valuable for the protection of others, who are vulnerable. I don't agree that this potential societal benefit outweighs our personal risk. Why? Because those who are at risk can be vaccinated and mostly have been. In which case, whether or not I am vaccinated is irrelevant. Additionally, we know the current vaccines do not cut transmission entirely.
There is only a very weak case in support of me and my family unit being vaccinated.
On the above basis, I don't belive it is right and proper, or necessary, or logical, to require us to be vaccinated to do ordinary, everyday things, such as get and maintain a job, go to the theatre or a restaurant or go on holiday to another country that has had widescale vaccinations of the vulnerable. We would be being forced, with no moral or logical justification, to take a vaccine we don't need to protect other people who don't need protecting (because they have their own vaccine protection).
We mustn't lose sight of the fact this virus is very harmful to a very small number of people, much like many other illnesses, yet it isn't to the vast majority. It shouldn't be used to justify wholesale, negative changes to our way of life, once we have vaccinated those vulnerable.
Something all these threads that mention the topic of "reduced transmission" have in common is that everyone seems to forget that Covid has a relatively short period of transmissibility/infection. Without the vaccine someone is not going to be spending the rest of their life spreading infection to everyone else at every turn.
In the event I am exposed to the virus, or even the suspicion that I may have been exposed to the virus, I will gladly do my part with self isolation/testing. This fulfils my moral obligation as far as I am concerned, not having a mandatory government dictated jab in order to do everyday domestic things.
p1stonhead said:
Depends if people want the government to make it illegal to require it for things inside the UK.
Sounds like some do.
Leaving it to private companies possibly isn’t the best idea is it?
I doubt very much that the government will most people want to know they are socialising with other people who will have been vaccinated and governments tend to listen to the lobbying of businesses Sounds like some do.
Leaving it to private companies possibly isn’t the best idea is it?
What they will not do however is mandate vaccination or take up of vaccine passports
citizensm1th said:
You guys do realise that in the UK this is going to be driven by industry don't you?
Travel companies will require it
Travel insurance companies will require it
Big venues that attract huge crowds will require it
All the government will do is provide a mechanism for people to prove to these industries that you have had a jab and where and when you had it.
Mostly it will be driven by two things companies appealing to the majority who will get vaccinated and the fear the companies will be sued by relatives of anyone catching covid say at the Cheltenham festival in future.
And just like vaccination no one will be forced to prove anything, it's your choice you just may have less other choices in life as a result.
If it is against your principles to have proof of vaccination well that's your choice and I for one will not be shedding any tears that you cannot do some of the things you used to do pre covid. Nor would I force anyone to go against their principles I will just enjoy the whole less brits abroad aspect.
If constant jabbing and health passports along with UBI and all the Top down control that the mission creep is pointing towards is actually coming to fruition. (as alluded to in your post, ie required by industry) Travel companies will require it
Travel insurance companies will require it
Big venues that attract huge crowds will require it
All the government will do is provide a mechanism for people to prove to these industries that you have had a jab and where and when you had it.
Mostly it will be driven by two things companies appealing to the majority who will get vaccinated and the fear the companies will be sued by relatives of anyone catching covid say at the Cheltenham festival in future.
And just like vaccination no one will be forced to prove anything, it's your choice you just may have less other choices in life as a result.
If it is against your principles to have proof of vaccination well that's your choice and I for one will not be shedding any tears that you cannot do some of the things you used to do pre covid. Nor would I force anyone to go against their principles I will just enjoy the whole less brits abroad aspect.
Wouldn't it be an awesome way to get there if we forced all SMEs and independent business to fold after prolonged closure leaving only big corporations and big business that will comply, and in effect carry through this policy by proxy.
Which kind of makes you wonder if this is all going swimmingly to plan for some.
citizensm1th said:
You guys do realise that in the UK this is going to be driven by industry don't you?
Travel companies will require it
Travel insurance companies will require it
Big venues that attract huge crowds will require it
I will have the vaccine but am totally against this passport rubbish, where will it end? The idea of showing your papers to get into a pub when the vast majority of the population will be vaccinated or virtually immune to covid is ridiculous. Travel companies will require it
Travel insurance companies will require it
Big venues that attract huge crowds will require it
No doubt I will have to do it sometimes but I won't be using public services anywhere near as much as I just don't agree. I can see lots of businesses going bust if they insist on this.
Travel is different if the country you are visiting insist on it but not in this country. Seriously considering not bothering voting for the Tories next time as they have totally lost the plot pandering to the idiotic public.
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