JLR bans boys in favour of girls and โ€œnon-binariesโ€

JLR bans boys in favour of girls and โ€œnon-binariesโ€

Author
Discussion

Liokault

2,213 posts

178 months

Tuesday 2nd March
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The other aspect of this is what happens when you have staffed up all of your teams with 50 young women...who then get pregnant and don’t return to work.

My dad was a mid level manager in JLR, I think he had about 40-60 people reporting to him. He used to tell me that so few women returned after having a kid that they gave those who did a grade increase (he might have said promotion, it was a while back) and they became more or less bullet proof.


Biggy Stardust

1,100 posts

8 months

Tuesday 2nd March
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Discrimination is wrong.

The End.

donteatpeople

582 posts

238 months

Tuesday 2nd March
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Gareth79 said:
Many boys have an interest, and will pursue it regardless if they went on a work experience course. Some girls are interested but need that extra push and encouragement that engineering companies are welcoming workplaces to women, and a course specifically aimed at them will help a lot.
That's a valid point, I don't think that's a problem exclusive to girls but I can see it's probably more common. I would understand targeting the marketing at girls and using female spokespeople from the industry to encourage participation. For me it still doesn't justify denying people opportunities based purely on protected characteristics.


Gareth79 said:
Hopefully the schools are doing some of that, but the plain "this is only open to girls" messages in the article suggest they aren't doing a good job of communicating why these sorts of things exist.
Schools playing their part would be helpful but I think that's starting too late, the biggest problem is probably parents and families. Girls get treated differently to boys from birth.

We need genuine social change and I just don't see trying to achieve equality through discrimination as a sustainable solution.

Cold

10,800 posts

54 months

Tuesday 2nd March
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A huge chunk of their customers are women so surely it makes sense to look to employ more women to help make the cars?

GroundEffect

12,112 posts

120 months

Tuesday 2nd March
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My department, designing electrified powertrains, has roughly 70 people. We have 2 women engineers. Both VERY smart and ruthless. We need more.

Armchair Expert

677 posts

38 months

Tuesday 2nd March
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deckster said:
It's even there in the article, if you bothered to read it. JLR run several work experience activities and this is the only one that's targetted specifically at girls.
That might be true but why is it OK, it wouldn't be OK if it was the other way round and isn't it illegal?

deckster said:
They don't need to make special overtures to the boys. Society has already conditioned them that they are suited to a job with cars. JLR has male engineers coming out of their ears.
If that is true then there can't be a shortage of engineers in the UK?

It be interesting if someone did a study of how many girls that went into engineering are still involved it it a few years later.

voyds9

7,765 posts

247 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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And just for balance the Nursing and Midwifery council are offering boys only work experience


Said no-one

otolith

43,949 posts

168 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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Pit Pony

4,195 posts

85 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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Muddle238 said:
Crazy. It’s as if JLR management is trying to send their business down the pan.

Reputation for poor build quality and reliability? Check.
Pissing on the chips of the classic car world by going after C-Type replicas and Suffolk cars? Check.
Terrible dealership customer service? Check.
Promoting gender inequality? Check.
Binning off the new electric XJ... then committing to being EV only in the next few years anyway? Check.

Don’t get me wrong, I like older Land Rovers and Jags, but there’s got to be a serious screw loose somewhere. Some of the business decisions and the way JLR conduct themselves, to me, sadly feels like they’re attempting to orchestrate their own demise, one cock up at a time.
Or given that the vast majority of the current decision malers, engineers, managers, leaders, on JLR are most likely Male, you might summarise that Men caused thier problems, and that those outcomes might have been different if women had been in charge. Correlation and causation assumed to be the same.

Or as Engineering Salaries are lower in the car industry than say, aerospace or civil they are trying to perpetuate lower salaries for women.

The number of women studying STEM subject is woefully low and anything that can be done to make young women. (I refuse the use Boys and Girls, as these are Teenagers), feel that there's a career in science or engineering or technology or maths, to reverse the trend has to be good.

Unfortunately individual young men, will be disappointed but so what.
If they are interested in STEM they'll probably still end up in a STEM career.

I personally have history with not getting work at JLR.

On the milk round in 1988, after a 15 minute interview in a meeting room at Coventry Polytechnic, I didn't get to the next round, because the Jaguar manager thought I was "mediocre"

Having applied to an advert in Early 1989, in the Birmingham Evening mail for a Tooling Engineer at Solihul. Having got myself to Lode Lane, halfway through the interview the interviewer suddenly realised that it was 6 weeks to my finals and another 3 weeks before I got my results and that I had applied to the Rover graduate scheme, and he decided that I should follow that to its logical conclusion.
Explaining that the graduate starting salary was £1000 lower than the 2 graduate offers I had from.Lucas and from British Aerospace. And I wanted to go into a job, that was £2k above those, didnt do me any favours.

Years later when I was contracting in the Aerospace industry, I was having to travel to the East Midlands for £33an hour. I saw a contract role advertised at JLR at £28. Locations included Halewood, Gaydon, Castle Bromwich, Solihull and Gaydon.

So the idea that being home every night for just £40 a day less was formed. Given that Bnb was costing me £30 a day, the reduction was worth being at home.

Now I got to the point where they wanted to interview me.

Just checking with the RC. No the hourly rate is £22 for Halewood.
£28 for Gaydon.

I think my words may not have been polite. I took a contract in Hemel Hempstead for £40 an hour, with a 4.5 hour commute.

So that's the Male centric decision making for you.



One thought. JLR is owned by an Indian company.
So they have a similar women in engineering thrust ?
Having contracted for an Indian company, there seemed to be as many female engineers as male ones, but the management team seemed to be male centric.



Pit Pony

4,195 posts

85 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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DeejRC said:
I agree entirely. The more and more engineery types of any gender learn and realise that JLR rates are wk, then sooner or later they may actually wake up and realise they have to offer decent pay rates.

Until then JLR will continue employing cheap monkeys and making tat.
Well said.

Pit Pony

4,195 posts

85 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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Walter Sobchak said:
Wouldn’t 10-13 year olds of any gender that have an interest in automotive engineering be better served applying for work experience at a manufacturer where the grown ups have worked out how to build their products properly?.
The article says Blackpool. So TVR ? ....

Blue62

6,040 posts

116 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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voyds9 said:
And just for balance the Nursing and Midwifery council are offering boys only work experience


Said no-one
Spearmint Rhino the same, surely something must be done.

Biggy Stardust

1,100 posts

8 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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otolith said:
I don't see them banning those in protected categories, so no it's not.

JagLover

33,587 posts

199 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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voyds9 said:
And just for balance the Nursing and Midwifery council are offering boys only work experience


Said no-one
Psychology is another female dominated profession "The BPS membership currently comprises 42,088 females and 12,767 males"

It is almost as if men and women like different things and many women prefer dealing with people and many men prefer dealing with systems and "things".

What a crazy thought, when surely they must be identical, despite manifest physical and hormonal differences, and any differences in outcomes due to societal discrimination.

ShoooRn

115 posts

61 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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JLR switches to predominantly BEV and HEV powertrains; JLR roles out work experience for Women and Non Binaries. It's like they're stating that us MEN and BOYS are only interested in loud V8 shouty things.

I mean... they're not wrong.

Lord.Vader

3,494 posts

103 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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Benbay001 said:
Its quite common in STEM activities.

At work, we have had a number of days to interest children in engineering that are only open to girls.
When I was an engineering apprentice, appx 12 years ago, the company took the 3 girl apprentices to every event, meet the PM, all the trips to different factories, we were specifically told we could not attend certain events or if we applied for one then we couldn’t attend any others.

I’m all for equality but can you imagine a boys / men only event ...

BritishBlitz87

349 posts

12 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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Nothing new, this sort of bks is very common nowadays because most women don't really want to be engineers, instead they want to do things like lawyering and medicine and other worthless subservient jobs. smile.

I went to a technical college, there were only six women in the engineering course , both years included. There BMW did a special work experience week for the students of our college, but only girls were allowed to apply. As you can imagine, there were literally dozens of young men who were gagging at the bit to go, but instead they had to make way for the girls, 4 of whom didn't even come from our college in the end becuase there wasn't enough interest, and of the other two, one wanted to go into biotechnology and went because it sounded fairly interesting. Only one girl in our college had any interest in actually being an automotive engineer.

The outrage was quite palpable, almost as bad as the time the team who won the Fujitsu industry group recieved laptops worth £1000, while the other side of the year did a project with Cisco where the winners got a day out at the Cisco offices. hehe

Positive discrimination is bad, the only place where quotas should be in force is the recruitment department to reduce bias. And yes, as a white male I'm probably biased in saying that!

Edited by BritishBlitz87 on Wednesday 3rd March 09:05


Edited by BritishBlitz87 on Wednesday 3rd March 09:14

otolith

43,949 posts

168 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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Biggy Stardust said:
otolith said:
I don't see them banning those in protected categories, so no it's not.
They're not "banning" in either case, they are both projects aiming to get underrepresented groups involved by means of events specifically targeted at them.


Leon R

1,436 posts

60 months

Wednesday 3rd March
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otolith said:
Biggy Stardust said:
otolith said:
I don't see them banning those in protected categories, so no it's not.
They're not "banning" in either case, they are both projects aiming to get underrepresented groups involved by means of events specifically targeted at them.
One example is an attempt to use male role models to encourage more underprivileged males to apply for positions available to everyone and attend higher education.

The other is a program that males are not allowed to apply for.

Not the same.

Blue62

6,040 posts

116 months

Wednesday 3rd March
quotequote all
otolith said:
They're not "banning" in either case, they are both projects aiming to get underrepresented groups involved by means of events specifically targeted at them.
Have you never heard of the concept ‘blue jobs and red jobs?’ It’s an indisputable fact that women and men are physiologically destined to perform different roles and the fact that women are under represented in some industries has nothing at all to do with societal factors. It’s the same with all other groups, though I can’t quite explain what went wrong when we started handing out footballs to black kids.