Pontins told to stop screening Irish names
Discussion
I live in a town which has a large permanent travelling community. I suspect it’s the minority of them causing the problem.
There camp is down a single 1 road entrance and exit. I’m amazed they don’t just park an ANPR van on the road every morning and evening. The amount of transits, pickups and 100k Range Rovers going up and down the road are staggering. I can’t believe they are all operated legally. You could confiscate a shed load of vehicles.
In fairness after a shooting last year the police did go down on mass and kept raiding the place at least once a week. They seemed to have calmed down a bit since.
There camp is down a single 1 road entrance and exit. I’m amazed they don’t just park an ANPR van on the road every morning and evening. The amount of transits, pickups and 100k Range Rovers going up and down the road are staggering. I can’t believe they are all operated legally. You could confiscate a shed load of vehicles.
In fairness after a shooting last year the police did go down on mass and kept raiding the place at least once a week. They seemed to have calmed down a bit since.
coppernorks said:
I daresay the Irish will be enraged by this calumny, and anti - English indignation will be raised to Def-Con 6 , .
A modern day version of No Blacks, No Dogs, No Irish is something that is water off a duck's back for me.
Greg_D said:
Electro1980 said:
So now it effects you your bothered by a policy?
It’s not about “some liberal types”, “direct experience
“ or “for the best”. It is illegal racial discrimination. You keep on supporting racism, but that doesn’t change the law. If companies don’t want to abide by the law, any law, then they should stop trading.
i'm just going to go out on a limb here and assume that you don't run a business!!!!!It’s not about “some liberal types”, “direct experience
“ or “for the best”. It is illegal racial discrimination. You keep on supporting racism, but that doesn’t change the law. If companies don’t want to abide by the law, any law, then they should stop trading.
I would love to say I’m shocked by how many people seem to be able to justify racism and are unable to see their own racism, but unfortunately I’m not.
Edited by Electro1980 on Friday 5th March 17:16
JagLover said:
coppernorks said:
I daresay the Irish will be enraged by this calumny,
From all I have heard they put up with less cr*p from the travelling community than we do.
On the one hand "tis only tinkers, feck the lot of them" but on the other hand "the fecking Brits are bashing us again!"
What's so difficult about all this anyway? If there's criminality, then it's a policing matter. If policing is failing then it's a lawmakers matter. Just give the police effective laws to enforce. The Irish seem to be able to do it.
Electro1980 said:
What does that have to do with anything? If I run a business or not doesn’t change the fact that there are laws governing how businesses must run and if someone doesn’t want to obey those laws they should not run a business. Several people seem to think that businesses can ignore laws that are inconvenient for them. I’m guessing because they have never faced discrimination themselves.
I would love to say I’m shocked by how many people seem to be able to justify racism and are unable to see their own racism, but unfortunately I’m not.
It’s just that simple binary views, such as yours are usually accompanied by not having to suffer the consequences of their high minded ideals. I would love to say I’m shocked by how many people seem to be able to justify racism and are unable to see their own racism, but unfortunately I’m not.
Edited by Electro1980 on Friday 5th March 17:16
In short, if your income was being affected, your view would change sharpish.
Greg_D said:
Electro1980 said:
What does that have to do with anything? If I run a business or not doesn’t change the fact that there are laws governing how businesses must run and if someone doesn’t want to obey those laws they should not run a business. Several people seem to think that businesses can ignore laws that are inconvenient for them. I’m guessing because they have never faced discrimination themselves.
I would love to say I’m shocked by how many people seem to be able to justify racism and are unable to see their own racism, but unfortunately I’m not.
It’s just that simple binary views, such as yours are usually accompanied by not having to suffer the consequences of their high minded ideals. I would love to say I’m shocked by how many people seem to be able to justify racism and are unable to see their own racism, but unfortunately I’m not.
Edited by Electro1980 on Friday 5th March 17:16
In short, if your income was being affected, your view would change sharpish.
If you genuinely believe that travelers are deserving of the protections afforded them by racism legislation then frankly there is no point wasting pixels discussing it further.
They are truly the cuckoos in the nest in this regard and use it exclusively to get away with their nefarious ways.
You demean genuine race relations with their inclusion in the conversation.
Their annexation from polite society is brought about 100% by their own actions.
They are truly the cuckoos in the nest in this regard and use it exclusively to get away with their nefarious ways.
You demean genuine race relations with their inclusion in the conversation.
Their annexation from polite society is brought about 100% by their own actions.
Ok. So you justify a racist policy with more racism... ok... whatever.
The simple fact is the law is what it is. The law is an implementation of universal human rights, and I believe universal rights are universal. If you don’t have the compassion to see people as people rather than a stereotype then that says more about you than me.
The simple fact is the law is what it is. The law is an implementation of universal human rights, and I believe universal rights are universal. If you don’t have the compassion to see people as people rather than a stereotype then that says more about you than me.
Electro1980 said:
Ok. So you justify a racist policy with more racism... ok... whatever.
The simple fact is the law is what it is. The law is an implementation of universal human rights, and I believe universal rights are universal. If you don’t have the compassion to see people as people rather than a stereotype then that says more about you than me.
Strawman.The simple fact is the law is what it is. The law is an implementation of universal human rights, and I believe universal rights are universal. If you don’t have the compassion to see people as people rather than a stereotype then that says more about you than me.
The following is a genuine question, meant in a meaningful way. Are you a traveller?
Why do people think that declaring something a straw man argument is some debate winner. You continue to insist that businesses should be allowed to discriminate against an ethnic group and break the law and that racism is fine because of your opinion of a group.
No, I’m not a traveller. I have, however, faced a lot of discrimination in my life, have some sense of empathy and can see people for something more than a simple stereotype of their community.
No, I’m not a traveller. I have, however, faced a lot of discrimination in my life, have some sense of empathy and can see people for something more than a simple stereotype of their community.
Edited by Electro1980 on Friday 5th March 19:00
Electro1980 said:
Why do people think that declaring something a straw man argument is some debate winner. You continue to insist that businesses should be allowed to discriminate against an ethnic group and break the law and that racism is fine because of your opinion of a group.
No, I’m not a traveller. I have, however, faced a lot of discrimination in my life, have some sense of empathy and can see people for something more than a simple stereotype of their community.
Suspect the discrimination against you was not as a result of your behaviour but because of your skin colour, religion etc. And of course that is unacceptable.No, I’m not a traveller. I have, however, faced a lot of discrimination in my life, have some sense of empathy and can see people for something more than a simple stereotype of their community.
Edited by Electro1980 on Friday 5th March 19:00
The situation here though relates to a community who behave with total disregard for laws and norms. I”d never had any interaction with them but since they invaded the village I moved to I understand exactly why others have a problem with them. Local park facilities destroyed.....local wildlife shot or coursed.....illegal occupation......many break-ins.....threats against locals and local businesses etc etc. I personally witnessed two of them in a car force some SGN workers to open a closed round they were laying pipes in otherwise they would “smash yer f
king faces in”. My village has stumped up over £50k trying to get rid of them so far, and we’re all the way to a High Court injunction.
How to you deal with a community who don’t play by any of the rules and even seem to be protected?
We need to get much tougher on them. I’m hoping the recent death of PC Harper will start to make the authorities think about redressing the balance.
Electro1980 said:
Why do people think that declaring something a straw man argument is some debate winner. You continue to insist that businesses should be allowed to discriminate against an ethnic group and break the law and that racism is fine because of your opinion of a group.
No, I’m not a traveller. I have, however, faced a lot of discrimination in my life, have some sense of empathy and can see people for something more than a simple stereotype of their community.
Strawman because you are refusing to be empathetic (see what I did there...) to the WIDELY held view that these people are the cause of their own annexation. It must be nice and comfortable to cling onto a fallacious view that they are in some way persecuted when the overwhelming body of evidence suggests that they are scum of the earth.No, I’m not a traveller. I have, however, faced a lot of discrimination in my life, have some sense of empathy and can see people for something more than a simple stereotype of their community.
Edited by Electro1980 on Friday 5th March 19:00
That they managed to get themselves on the ‘persecuted’ list is a modern miracle.... they are no more a ‘race’ than scientologists, the mafia or any other group with a shared identity and values.
Put it another way, could I marry into their fold and call myself a traveller??? Yup...
Could I marry a black lady and call myself black????
Electro1980 said:
Greg_D said:
Electro1980 said:
So now it effects you your bothered by a policy?
It’s not about “some liberal types”, “direct experience
“ or “for the best”. It is illegal racial discrimination. You keep on supporting racism, but that doesn’t change the law. If companies don’t want to abide by the law, any law, then they should stop trading.
i'm just going to go out on a limb here and assume that you don't run a business!!!!!It’s not about “some liberal types”, “direct experience
“ or “for the best”. It is illegal racial discrimination. You keep on supporting racism, but that doesn’t change the law. If companies don’t want to abide by the law, any law, then they should stop trading.
I would love to say I’m shocked by how many people seem to be able to justify racism and are unable to see their own racism, but unfortunately I’m not.
Edited by Electro1980 on Friday 5th March 17:16
I doubt anyone at Pontins is a racist. They’re just trying to keep their jobs.
This isn’t active racism, it’s passive racism. It’s unfortunately a well correlating property of the criminals that are damaging their business, are also of a particular ‘culture/ethnicity/race/religion’
They’re using that property to get a quick win, but not for the reason of being racists, but to save their business and jobs.
If every business who is frequented by these muppets closes down because they don’t want to appear racist, and all the employees go on benefits then maybe that is the best thing.
Government can then figure out how to deal with the rising unemployment and benefits costs... rather than feigning outrage but being happy that these businesses persevere and keep generating taxes and economic activity.
It would be worth Pontins getting a decent legal team and taking this to court,
is The Equality Act being contravened if a company discriminates by surname ?
The Equality Act applies to discrimination based on:
Age
Race
Sex
Gender reassignment
Disability
Religion or belief
Sexual orientation
Marriage or civil partnership
Pregnancy and maternity
is The Equality Act being contravened if a company discriminates by surname ?
The Equality Act applies to discrimination based on:
Age
Race
Sex
Gender reassignment
Disability
Religion or belief
Sexual orientation
Marriage or civil partnership
Pregnancy and maternity
Electro1980 said:
Why do people think that declaring something a straw man argument is some debate winner. You continue to insist that businesses should be allowed to discriminate against an ethnic group and break the law and that racism is fine because of your opinion of a group.
No, I’m not a traveller. I have, however, faced a lot of discrimination in my life, have some sense of empathy and can see people for something more than a simple stereotype of their community.
What extensive interactions / experience do you have of travellers ?No, I’m not a traveller. I have, however, faced a lot of discrimination in my life, have some sense of empathy and can see people for something more than a simple stereotype of their community.
Edited by Electro1980 on Friday 5th March 19:00
How could pontins protect their business and clients ?
Greg_D said:
Strawman because you are refusing to be empathetic (see what I did there...) to the WIDELY held view that these people are the cause of their own annexation. It must be nice and comfortable to cling onto a fallacious view that they are in some way persecuted when the overwhelming body of evidence suggests that they are scum of the earth.
I don’t think you understand what empathy or a straw man is. Do I have empathy for people who’s lives and livelihoods have been damaged by the behaviour of some travellers? Yes. Does that excuse racism? No. You are the one treating a whole group because of the behaviour of some.Greg_D said:
That they managed to get themselves on the ‘persecuted’ list is a modern miracle.... they are no more a ‘race’ than scientologists, the mafia or any other group with a shared identity and values.
Put it another way, could I marry into their fold and call myself a traveller??? Yup...
Could I marry a black lady and call myself black????
Doesn’t matter what you think. You are arguing with the law.Put it another way, could I marry into their fold and call myself a traveller??? Yup...
Could I marry a black lady and call myself black????
Mr Whippy said:
If there were some method to filter out people ‘bad for business’ without resorting to the method Pontins have used, then it’d be applied without hesitation.
I doubt anyone at Pontins is a racist. They’re just trying to keep their jobs.
This isn’t active racism, it’s passive racism. It’s unfortunately a well correlating property of the criminals that are damaging their business, are also of a particular ‘culture/ethnicity/race/religion’
They’re using that property to get a quick win, but not for the reason of being racists, but to save their business and jobs.
If every business who is frequented by these muppets closes down because they don’t want to appear racist, and all the employees go on benefits then maybe that is the best thing.
Government can then figure out how to deal with the rising unemployment and benefits costs... rather than feigning outrage but being happy that these businesses persevere and keep generating taxes and economic activity.
So you understand that it’s racist. Other businesses manage to deal with violent or criminal behaviour without racist blanket policies. What makes pontins special?I doubt anyone at Pontins is a racist. They’re just trying to keep their jobs.
This isn’t active racism, it’s passive racism. It’s unfortunately a well correlating property of the criminals that are damaging their business, are also of a particular ‘culture/ethnicity/race/religion’
They’re using that property to get a quick win, but not for the reason of being racists, but to save their business and jobs.
If every business who is frequented by these muppets closes down because they don’t want to appear racist, and all the employees go on benefits then maybe that is the best thing.
Government can then figure out how to deal with the rising unemployment and benefits costs... rather than feigning outrage but being happy that these businesses persevere and keep generating taxes and economic activity.
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